Time to re-asses BlueTooth?

[Geoffrey Armstrong]

I have been very pleasantly surprised by the new NAD 3020 amp/dac with aptX Bluetooth Music Streaming.

 

I'm using it to drive a pair of KEF LS50's at the moment and despite its modest continuous rating of 30wpc it's doing a stellar job of driving them. It was recommended to me by a customer of mine as a great match for these speakers and he certainly nailed it.

 

It's built in asynchronous USB DAC is capable of 24/96 and I haven't even tried connecting it via USB yet.

 

I have been so surprised by the quality of its Bluetooth streaming capability. Using aptX Bluetooth Music Streaming, which I don't fully understand; but it seems to use a proprietary lossless file format. It is limited to 44.1 kHz. I think it might have some advantage over WiFi streaming; because with Bluetooth you, of course, have to pair the two devices and a Bluetooth "Headset" such as the NAD can only be connected to one streaming source at a time. Wifi on the other hand is an open network with potentially many devices competing for the same resources. (This is only my guess).

 

Whether you use Bluetooth or not, this is an amazing little Amp/DAC combo for around 500 whatevers.

 

geoff

[Audio_ELF]

I have been so surprised by the quality of its Bluetooth streaming capability. Using aptX Bluetooth Music Streaming, which I don't fully understand; but it seems to use a proprietary lossless file format. It is limited to 44.1 kHz.

Just a correction, but aptX isn't totally lossless.

 

To quote from the CSR (official) website...

"The audio codec however has a hybrid near lossless feature where the dynamic application of a mild form of lossy coding only for the short sections of audio where complete lossless coding cannot respect the bandwidth constraints required."

 

Not that such technicalities alter the sound quality you are experiencing with the NAD.

 

Out of interest, what is your source for Bluetooth transmission?

 

Eloise

[Geoffrey Armstrong]

Correction appreciated, thanks. Frankly I was just so surprised at how good BT sounded through this unit. I thought of it as a gimick, 'till I heard it. BT was off my radar and I'd dismissed it as being for phone headsets and consumer toys.

 

It would not be my first choice of source through this very capable amp/dac. Fact is I started with vinyl via an external phono stage (no you don't get a phono stage thrown in as well for 500 bucks). I was very impressed with the result.

 

For BT I began with my iPad streaming QOBUZ to the 3020. Maybe I lucked out, because it seemed the most reliable streamimg from this source over many hours, better than I'd experienced via WiFi. Then I streamed a local iTunes lib from a Mac via Audirvana +, with, naturally, even better results.

 

BT with this unit is great for evaluating music via the streaming services, which are mostly lossy anyway. With Qobuz I heard conjestion on complex music, so maybe that's when the lossy delivery kicked in.

 

I'm looking forward to evaluating the USB dac section of the 3020. Just need a 3m cable because of where it's situated and that should arrive any day now.

 

I will post my listening impressions in the appropriate forum here.

 

geoff

[Audio_ELF]

Out of interest are you using this as a main system or is it secondary (for bedroom or similar)? Just curious.

 

Eloise

[Cebolla]

Correction appreciated, thanks. Frankly I was just so surprised at how good BT sounded through this unit. I thought of it as a gimick, 'till I heard it. BT was off my radar and I'd dismissed it as being for phone headsets and consumer toys.

 

It would not be my first choice of source through this very capable amp/dac. Fact is I started with vinyl via an external phono stage (no you don't get a phono stage thrown in as well for 500 bucks). I was very impressed with the result.

 

For BT I began with my iPad streaming QOBUZ to the 3020. Maybe I lucked out, because it seemed the most reliable streamimg from this source over many hours, better than I'd experienced via WiFi. Then I streamed a local iTunes lib from a Mac via Audirvana +, with, naturally, even better results.

 

BT with this unit is great for evaluating music via the streaming services, which are mostly lossy anyway. With Qobuz I heard conjestion on complex music, so maybe that's when the lossy delivery kicked in.

Was that 'normal' bluetooth audio, as I don't think the iPad's bluetooth supports aptX? Or did you attach an external bluetooth aptX transmitter?

[Geoffrey Armstrong]

Out of interest are you using this as a main system or is it secondary (for bedroom or similar)? Just curious.

 

Eloise

I'm a dealer and it's in my demonstration room as my best value system. NAD D3020 with LS50's and Mac Mini as source.

 

geoff

[Geoffrey Armstrong]

I think you're right as the iPad doesn't seem to support aptX. Although I believe it's just a software codec, I can't find any information as to whether Apple have added support for it under IOS 7. It sounded pretty good, other than when the music got complex; but I have to assume it was "ordinary Bluetooth audio". It's not easy to find clear information on this though. Certainly streaming an iTunes library from my Mac mini via Audirvana + sounded much better.

 

If you can read some French, here's some information from Qobuz:

 

Bluetooth aptX : ça nous épate !

 

Via WiFi Qobuz streams Apple Lossless from IOS devices. I don't know how to determine what that would translate to via Bluetooth.

[Audio_ELF]

I'm a dealer and it's in my demonstration room as my best value system. NAD D3020 with LS50's and Mac Mini as source.

You should be clear you are a dealer. Otherwise you'll be accused of promoting products you sell.

 

I would suggest you email Chris and ask him the guidelines on how a dealer should act.

[Audio_ELF]

I think you're right as the iPad doesn't seem to support aptX. Although I believe it's just a software codec, I can't find any information as to whether Apple have added support for it under IOS 7.

Yes it's just a software codec; no Apple haven't added support for it under iOS7.

 

It sounded pretty good, other than when the music got complex; but I have to assume it was "ordinary Bluetooth audio". It's not easy to find clear information on this though. Certainly streaming an iTunes library from my Mac mini via Audirvana + sounded much better.

As I understand it; AAC compression is used over A2DP to the Bluetooth receiver.

 

Eloise

[Geoffrey Armstrong]

You are right. of course. I will do that. It is already stated in my profile though and I am being completely up front about it. I am the sole owner of my business: Sound Galleries, Monaco and I promise you that I only handle products I personally believe in. I don't sell products purely for commercial reasons as that would be boring for me.

 

I will drop Chris a line though. Thanks.

[Cebolla]

I think you're right as the iPad doesn't seem to support aptX. Although I believe it's just a software codec, I can't find any information as to whether Apple have added support for it under IOS 7. It sounded pretty good, other than when the music got complex; but I have to assume it was "ordinary Bluetooth audio". It's not easy to find clear information on this though. Certainly streaming an iTunes library from my Mac mini via Audirvana + sounded much better.

 

If you can read some French, here's some information from Qobuz:

 

Bluetooth aptX : ça nous épate !

 

Via WiFi Qobuz streams Apple Lossless from IOS devices. I don't know how to determine what that would translate to via Bluetooth.

So it's possible the decent source via Qobuz plus comparing with your less reliable WiFi connection helped with the iPad listening experience using normal Bluetooth Audio. The better sound via the Mac is likely explained by it actually having & supporting the aptX codec. This reasonably up to date list appears to confirm these different Mac & iOS aptX support capabilities:

JBA: List Of Apt-X Compatible Devices (transmitters, receivers, etc.)

[Geoffrey Armstrong]

So it's possible the decent source via Qobuz plus comparing with your less reliable WiFi connection helped with the iPad listening experience using normal Bluetooth Audio. The better sound via the Mac is likely explained by it actually having & supporting the aptX codec. This reasonably up to date list appears to confirm these different Mac & iOS aptX support capabilities:

JBA: List Of Apt-X Compatible Devices (transmitters, receivers, etc.)

 

Thanks for that. On the Mac if you hold down the option key while choosing your Bluetooth device from the Bluetooth menu, it will indicate which Bluetooth codec is being used, while the audio is playing. If you choose "use as Audio device" you can play directly from iTunes and the menu confirms the aptX codec is being used. Funnily enough, when I use Audirvana + the codec doesn't appear in this menu at all. The NAD 3020 has to be selected as the Audio device within Audirvana. I think it highly likely that Audirvana is also using aptX; but there's no visual proof of it.

 

If I instead use Amarra as the iTunes player it defaults to the system sound output device on launch and, as with plain old iTunes aptX shows up as the codec being used in that menu.

 

The BT option on the NAD 3020 is a nice to have feature for when you want to stream from a device that isn't close enough to it for connecting by USB cable. I just wish IOS supported aptX.

 

geoff

[Audio_ELF]

PS. In comment / reply to the subject title: I think Chord products actually had people reassessing BlueTooth in the past; just they were rather expensive...