Airport Express (2nd Generation) DAC List

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

So it appears that the new Airport Express models are having audio dropout issues with some DACs, from what I'm reading they appear to be Sabre based DACs. Unfortunately my Peachtree DAC-IT has the Sabre chip and I get random dropouts in audio when using it wirelessly or wired.

 

I like my Peachtree a lot, but also really like the convenience of the AEX so I'd like to find another DAC in the same price range. I'm in research mode, but thought I'd start by asking if there are any DACs that are KNOWN to work with the newer AEX, maybe in the $300 price range that you all have experience with?

 

Thanks

[Biku Toru]

... from what I'm reading they appear to be Sabre based DACs...

Thanks

 

Where are you reading it? I had dropouts when I got it, with two different DACs and none of them were Sabre, so I switched to my first generation AEX for a few month. But after the latest firmware update decided to give the latest AEX another try, it seem to be working just fine now. Have you tried the update?

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Where are you reading it? I had dropouts when I got it, with two different DACs and none of them were Sabre, so I switched to my first generation AEX for a few month. But after the latest firmware update decided to give the latest AEX another try, it seem to be working just fine now. Have you tried the update?

I'd seen it mentioned in one of the Apple Community forums, but I'm seeing other DACs with issues as well. I have the latest 7.6.3 firmware installed, have tried both wired and wireless, still getting the dropouts.

[ehb_dave]

So it appears that the new Airport Express models are having audio dropout issues with some DACs, from what I'm reading they appear to be Sabre based DACs. Unfortunately my Peachtree DAC-IT has the Sabre chip and I get random dropouts in audio when using it wirelessly or wired.

 

I like my Peachtree a lot, but also really like the convenience of the AEX so I'd like to find another DAC in the same price range. I'm in research mode, but thought I'd start by asking if there are any DACs that are KNOWN to work with the newer AEX, maybe in the $300 price range that you all have experience with?

 

Thanks

 

Is there a reason for switching DACs rather than finding a used older model AE? I understand that the first generation AE also has better jitter specs, which might be the problem with the new ones. I see these on craigslist and eBay fairly frequently.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Is there a reason for switching DACs rather than finding a used older model AE? I understand that the first generation AE also has better jitter specs, which might be the problem with the new ones. I see these on craigslist and eBay fairly frequently.

I'm actually doing that as well, gonna see which setup I prefer the most

[gbryant]

Did firmware upgrade fix the cutout issue?

 

I'm trying to get mine to work.... Same issue, optical cuts out... Analog works great.

But... I want to use optical.

[Streamer]

The new AirPort Express definitely has issues with the digital output. We have tried 3-4 of them with the Vanatoo Transparent One and they have all had dropout issues with the digital output, and all worked OK with the analog output. I think we have one customer using the new version with success. ALL of the previous generation of AirPort Expresses worked 100% of the time with the digital output.

 

We were told by a well-respected DAC manufacturer at RMAF last year that the better the DAC, the more likely it is to have issues with the new AirPort Express! I can’t vouch for that directly, but thought it was interesting.

 

We just swapped a new version with dropouts for an older one to help-out one of our customers. My partner (Rick, the EE) is planning to de-bug it to see if he can determine why it has the problem. There is a lot of speculation online that the higher jitter observed in the new unit causes the dropout, but no actual proof.

 

See the following thread on the Apple forum for other’s experiences:

 

https://discussions.apple.com/message/21639006?tstart=0#21639006

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

I've decided to pass on trying to find a new DAC and instead picked up a previous generation Airport Express. I like the sound I get from the Peachtree, seems silly to change that especially when it seems like finding a compatible DAC for the new AEX is going to be a challenge.

 

I picked it up yesterday, plugged it in and it works beautifully with my Peachtree Dac-IT. It doesn't do hi-rez audio obviously but other than that sounds just as good as my Squeezebox Touch and Sonos did with the DAC in the mix and since we're an Apple household it's more convenient than either of those solutions. To my ears it also sounds materially better than my Apple TV does using the same DAC, so I assume the ATV is doing something to the music that the AEX is not?

 

High Resolution support would be nice, but given the variability in quality on HDTracks stuff I tend to buy that stuff on SACD anyway. So while I can see it being a drawback for some, not a big deal to me.

 

I actually prefer the newer style AEX because of the extra ethernet port and the fact that it has a separate cable, although I think I can address the latter.

 

Now I need to buy another one of these as a spare while they can still be had. Or, ya know, Apple could just fix the one they're selling now...

[Biku Toru]

I've decided to pass on trying to find a new DAC and instead picked up a previous generation Airport Express. I like the sound I get from the Peachtree, seems silly to change that especially when it seems like finding a compatible DAC for the new AEX is going to be a challenge.

 

I picked it up yesterday, plugged it in and it works beautifully with my Peachtree Dac-IT. It doesn't do hi-rez audio obviously but other than that sounds just as good as my Squeezebox Touch and Sonos did with the DAC in the mix and since we're an Apple household it's more convenient than either of those solutions. To my ears it also sounds materially better than my Apple TV does using the same DAC, so I assume the ATV is doing something to the music that the AEX is not?

 

High Resolution support would be nice, but given the variability in quality on HDTracks stuff I tend to buy that stuff on SACD anyway. So while I can see it being a drawback for some, not a big deal to me.

 

I actually prefer the newer style AEX because of the extra ethernet port and the fact that it has a separate cable, although I think I can address the latter.

 

Now I need to buy another one of these as a spare while they can still be had. Or, ya know, Apple could just fix the one they're selling now...

 

I had the drop out problem when I first got it. My Nest thermostat also had problem with it, it would drop the off wireless and had to restart all the time. It was like this for about 4 month, and I switch for 1st gen AE, but then decided to try it again recently.

 

I do not know what fixed it, but it works right now without any problems.

I have it connected with Ethernet cable to my FIOS router, it is set with a Static IP, Internet Options - Configure IPv6: Automatically/IPv6 Mode: Tunnel. I have it create a wireless network, and I shut down wireless in FIOS router completely. Network - Router Mode: DHCP Only. Or course AirPlay is enabled. I use the Ethernet out for connecting AppleTV.

[grinner]

Is there a way of telling the first two generations of AE's apart?

 

Right now, I think Apple are on to the 3rd generation (the one that does not plug into the power outlet directly) so that one is easy.

[Streamer]

Is there a way of telling the first two generations of AE's apart?

 

Right now, I think Apple are on to the 3rd generation (the one that does not plug into the power outlet directly) so that one is easy.

---

 

 

Apple calls the new one the second generation, which is slightly confusing because there was more than one "generation" of the older style, when they switched from 802.11g to 802.11n. I think they made this switch in 2008. The only way I know of telling them apart externally is by looking at the model number. The 802.11n model I have is Model No. A1264. I don't remember the 802.11g model for sure, but I think it was A1084(?).

 

The preferred model is the 802.11n version. Audio doesn't require the higher bandwidth, but the "n" version has better functionality and wireless configurability. The AirPort Utility can tell you this info when you connect to the AirPort Express wirelessly.

 

Hope this helps!

[grinner]

Thank you - now I understand.

 

Much obliged to you.

[cowboy]

I would suggest to try this: QA100--Full Digital Stereo Amplifier. This digital amp has a High quality sampling clock reform circuits, that is able to reform the digital signal from Airport Express, one of my friends got a QA100 for his Airport Express, and decided to buy another QA100 for the second room after listened the Airport Express+QA100. I think this would be a cheap and great solution.

[rockitdoc]

This is a continuing issue for me, as well. This is my latest iteration:

Comcast coax to Motorola Modem to Airport 2nd generation Express (so I could connect direct to the modem and remove any 'early version hardware issues' which some have reported, and which, I had, also) via network cable. Express to a Peachtree DAT iT via optic cable, DAT to Integra amp via RCA cables. iMac set up to play itunes through the new Express. No other network, just a simple playback from iMac to Express via airwaves and Express to Integra integrated amp via fiber optic/RCA. Dropouts continue. Modem? DAT? I dunno. Very frustrating, though.

[cowboy]

This is a continuing issue for me, as well. This is my latest iteration:

Comcast coax to Motorola Modem to Airport 2nd generation Express (so I could connect direct to the modem and remove any 'early version hardware issues' which some have reported, and which, I had, also) via network cable. Express to a Peachtree DAT iT via optic cable, DAT to Integra amp via RCA cables. iMac set up to play itunes through the new Express. No other network, just a simple playback from iMac to Express via airwaves and Express to Integra integrated amp via fiber optic/RCA. Dropouts continue. Modem? DAT? I dunno. Very frustrating, though.

 

The jitter of the optic output of Express is too high, the DAC is not able to lock the signal constantly, that should be the reason for the dropouts. You need some kind of DAC has the sampling clock reform circuits, like QLS QA100 has, or you can just mod the Express, take the I2S directly from the PCB, replace the original crystal with a better crystal, and use a better power supply.

[rockitdoc]

The jitter of the optic output of Express is too high, the DAC is not able to lock the signal constantly, that should be the reason for the dropouts. You need some kind of DAC has the sampling clock reform circuits, like QLS QA100 has, or you can just mod the Express, take the I2S directly from the PCB, replace the original crystal with a better crystal, and use a better power supply.

You got it. I took the DAT iT out of the circuit and the dropouts ceased. Consequently, I have a Peachtree DAT iT, almost new available for sale. I tried to post it in the want ads section but so far, can't figure out to do it. I will, but right now, this offer is exclusive to this thread. Get it while it's still available!

How about $200 incl shipping to CONUS?

[grinner]

Do you mean DAC iT?

 

If so, I will take it for $200 incl shipping. I am in 94040. California.

[Peter_S]

The jitter of the optic output of Express is too high, the DAC is not able to lock the signal constantly, that should be the reason for the dropouts. You need some kind of DAC has the sampling clock reform circuits, like QLS QA100 has, or you can just mod the Express, take the I2S directly from the PCB, replace the original crystal with a better crystal, and use a better power supply.

 

Has anyone had success by installing the older firmware, version 7.6.1? This is no longer available on the web for Airport Express, but if anyone has it, please contact me. I've heard it works and would love a copy. Thanks.

[hytechrednek]

I suspect the drops outs are caused by extreme Jitter, especially on the APX A1264 models. I know this because my Cambridge 840C suffers from what they term "back clocking" while using the A1264. It emits a squealing sound rather than drop out completely. Cambridge blames the APX high jitter levels and offers a firmware update that compensates for it, although they don't recommend it for reasons of SQ. Got this from Cambridge.

 

"As a customer using the digital output of an Apple Airport Express into our products you may have experienced some unexpected noises while listening to music. After extensive investigation we have discovered that the digital output of the Airport Express is actually remarkably unstable with a very high level of Jitter. While we do our very best to mitigate for jitter present in the digital signal, we can only tolerate this error to a certain extent. In order to increase our tolerance we would have to reduce the level of accuracy in our signal processing."

 

The APX A1084 seems to have less jitter than the A1264. I have several of the A1084 units and they never exhibit this problem with the Cambridge. I've tried three A1264 units and they all have the problem. A Wyred 4 Sound Remedy re-clocker corrects the problem on the A1264 units.

 

The A1084 is the very first model Apple released. The A1264 was the second model released. All their "Generation" Jargon is so confusing.