Chicago II on hdtracks remix

[quadlover]

A friend of mine has gone nuts with this download. Besides mislabeling songs, the 12th song at the end of the download is missing the trombone in the mix that completes the end of the song. It's no big deal to me but he has even sent hdtracks an email asking for explanation. They did promptly respond but only that they will look into the matter. Judging from the word phrasing in it both heard I think it is not just a form letter response. Since he is not a member of this forum, I told him I would post to see other's responses.

 

Has anybody else noticed these remix differences in downloads?

[KDinsmore]

I have no specific information about this. A while back I tried to find out about the source etc and nothing was there. I could find no one who has ever bought this either.

[JohnMH]

Have it on vinyl. I see there is a Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab gold CD version. Curious how it sounds.

 

[quadlover]

Have it on vinyl. I see there is a Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab gold CD version. Curious how it sounds.

 

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It's not the quality of the sound...it is a remix that takes the trombone from primary on original and rhino mixes to virtually nonexistent on the download. This changes the way the end of the song is portrayed. Average music listeners, music lovers, and audiophiles may not notice it but Chicagophiles (those who love Chicago's music especially when Terry Ksth was alive) noticed it quickly.

[JohnMH]

Understand. Perhaps an alternate take was used? Curious if this change was made on the MFSL CD.

[KDinsmore]

MFSL gold is not out yet. Supposedly releasing this and the first one. It's been on their website for over six months and still nada.

[Robert Hutton]

MFSL gold is not out yet. Supposedly releasing this and the first one. It's been on their website for over six months and still nada.

 

Indeed it is not out yet. Unfortunately, it is now 'audiophile practice' to announce titles often a year or even more in advance, and of course, some of those titles will never appear. So who knows about the MOFI Chicago? - but MOFI in almost every case eventually get it out there.

 

On to Chicago II. My understanding is that the original master tape is gone. So in such cases, where no suitable backup exists that can be used for a high resolution transfer or other audiophile edition, a remix is pretty much the nly option, assumng the multitracks exist - which they usually do, because they never get used other than in creating the original mix.

 

So for Chicago II - forget the original masters, no such thing. Remi is gonna be it.

 

You would be shocked to know how many true original masters simply do not exist anymore.

[frederick184]

I have this download. The cover art is from the DVD-A version, so I assume that is where the download was sourced, although it sounds like a multichannel remix, with some parts missing or buried in the mix on 2 channel. On 25 or 6 to 4 the rhythm section is loud but the horns are subdued. The guitar parts are also unlike the original.

 

Colin

[KDinsmore]

I always thought this recording sounded muddy. Their first was really a great recording and the second just sounds off to me. Even in the vinyl days.

[samtheman57]

A friend of mine has gone nuts with this download. Besides mislabeling songs, the 12th song at the end of the download is missing the trombone in the mix that completes the end of the song. It's no big deal to me but he has even sent hdtracks an email asking for explanation. They did promptly respond but only that they will look into the matter. Judging from the word phrasing in it both heard I think it is not just a form letter response. Since he is not a member of this forum, I told him I would post to see other's responses.

 

Has anybody else noticed these remix differences in downloads?

 

Hmmm, I grew up with this album, wore out the vinyl version. I have the HD Tracks download. It is pretty much embedded in my DNA and musical memory. Purely subjective, I realize, but nothing stood out as "missing" to me. I am not sure what you mean by the "12th song at the end of the download" but if you mean track 12 (Ballet For A Girl In Buchannon: Now More Than Ever) I can definitely hear, in the finale of the song, the horn/trombone building in the crescendo accompanied by Seraphine's sustained "tympani roll" on the floor tom of his kit. 25 or 6 to 4 is another case.

 

In that case I do hear pronounced differences, I am fairly certain there is a doubling of the kick drum pattern that I didn't hear on the original vinyl. The horns do seem to be blended more subtly into the mix, whereas on the vinyl or ancient mono speakers on A.M. radio, the horn frequencies rang out.

 

To me , it sounds like a mix that was originally a bit muddy sonic wise was cleaned up and rebalanced. Certain instruments or frequencies were probably pushed back or forward into the mix but not dramatically so.

 

As for tracks mislabeled, I don't see any errors.

[quadlover]

Yes it is on " Now More Than Ever". On my friend's download and mine (they were purchased months apart), the trombone is non existent for the final 30-45 sec. It is not subtle and causes the melody to sound ackward. I have heard the melody the way it was originally recorded on the original lp, the original cd, and the rhino remix. I guess I'll have to get the new MFSL next week to see what's up.

 

As for mislabeling songs, they have over 1/2 the songs on the download as part of Ballad for a girl from Buchanan. I can't recall exact number as I corrected as soon as I downloaded and so did my friend.

[samtheman57]

Yes it is on " Now More Than Ever". On my friend's download and mine (they were purchased months apart), the trombone is non existent for the final 30-45 sec. It is not subtle and causes the melody to sound ackward. I have heard the melody the way it was originally recorded on the original lp, the original cd, and the rhino remix. I guess I'll have to get the new MFSL next week to see what's up.

 

As for mislabeling songs, they have over 1/2 the songs on the download as part of Ballad for a girl from Buchanan. I can't recall exact number as I corrected as soon as I downloaded and so did my friend.

 

Quadlover:

 

I actually closely examined the metadata and found that you are correct. The "Ballet's" Last track should be "Now More Than Ever". Five more tracks are listed as part of the "Ballet" that should not be. I really am so familiar with the record that I don't need to know the titles personally, but it is definitely mislabeled.

 

I did an A/B check of a version of "Now More Than Ever" I pulled from You Tube against the HD tracks version, and indeed, there is an additional horn part that is either pushed so far back in the mix, it is nearly inaudible. OR it just isn't present at all! I didn't strain to hear this at all, it was quite obvious.

 

I think we are talking 0:57 to 1:25.

 

 

I have to admit my "musical memory" is not accurate at all! Thanks for catching this, and if HD Tracks is willing to correct this I too would be interested.

[samtheman57]

I have this download. The cover art is from the DVD-A version, so I assume that is where the download was sourced, although it sounds like a multichannel remix, with some parts missing or buried in the mix on 2 channel. On 25 or 6 to 4 the rhythm section is loud but the horns are subdued. The guitar parts are also unlike the original.

 

Colin

 

Now that I have done some careful listening, I find that to be the case as well, as I noted in my first post. I truly think some parts are, as frederick stated , missing or buried in the mix.

[samtheman57]

It's not the quality of the sound...it is a remix that takes the trombone from primary on original and rhino mixes to virtually nonexistent on the download. This changes the way the end of the song is portrayed. Average music listeners, music lovers, and audiophiles may not notice it but Chicagophiles (those who love Chicago's music especially when Terry Ksth was alive) noticed it quickly.

 

I was that way with my favorite Frank Zappa album "Apostrophe". When Rykodisc re-issued in the 90s, Zappa explained the tape was irreparably damaged at the beginning of a cut called "Excentrifugal Forz". He recreated the lead part, but it never sounded right to me. I loved this record, and although it would seem to be nitpicking, it ruined the sequence of songs for me. Fortunately they found another safety (or undiscovered master) copy and used that for a 2013 remix. So I understand that small things do indeed count in the overall listening experience.