Civility

[Priaptor]

We just witnessed an innocent thread posted from an exuberant music lover who simply wanted to let us in on the skinny, some new cables, but the thread had to be shut done...well I want this gentleman to continue to post

 

To crudely paraphrase a great jazz lyric ....

 

Why anyone wants to step on the seams of anyone's dreams, is over my head....

 

WDW

 

To the community at large, I apologize if I offended any. It was not my intent. I can also assure all I have absolutely no financial interest in the company or any other high end audio.

 

I also understand how my "Amazing" enthusiasm could be a little strong. I rarely rave about products and am one of the first to state over the top claims about anything (or everything as we so often see in places like TAS) is tiring.

 

I was introduced to these cables on Saturday, totally skeptical about "another" cable while my dealer delivered my EMM DAC2X. We spent hours listening to the cable comparing to other so called high end cables and it was a product that really excited me, hence my post. In fact, I hadn't even seen the guys website until I went to post and agree with those of you who are skeptical about the nonsensical claims.

 

Just my belief, but I think we will be hearing more about these cables in the not too distant future. Just got the EMM hooked up. More on that after some burning in

 

Again, sorry to have gotten so ornery with some. It was not my original intention.

 

Just a brief background. When I was doing my medical residency, I actually was retailer in high end audio (during the 80s) and was the distributor for a new "super duper" cable, by the name of Siltech, which I am sure most of you have heard of. The schtick and price sold more of these cables than I could get my hands on and quite frankly, I never liked them that much. I also was a reseller for Meitner, who at the time made these gorgeous wood cased tiny preamps and amps. My big thing was setting up turntables and my customers loved that "the doctor was making a housecall" to setup their turntables. I was a reseller for lots of different products including SOTA, SME, Koetsu, ProAc, Lazarus (a great little tube preamp that blew up often), Rowlands, Celestion, Magneplanar, and it was one of the best times in my life.

[Priaptor]

Barry,

 

Incidentally, at the risk of sounding like a sycophant, those present when we were comparing these new cables were most blown away by one of my favorite albums, Equinox.

[Priaptor]

Instead of "objectivists" and "subjectivists," may I suggest we adopt the more neutral terms "skeptics" and "believers", or maybe even "rationalists" and "irrationalists"?

 

As a great American once said, "There you go again"

 

Your assumption that "subjectivity" assumes irrationality is irrational.

 

As with most things, whether it be new drugs, cars, audio, cameras, MRIs, CT scanners, etc, the "objectivity" involved in the science does not necessarily correlate with desired outcomes. Audio is no different.

 

Trust me, as a former chemist, I understand all about "objectivity", was involved in the research that brought MAO inhibitors to market and was involved more recently in helping with an AIDS vaccine all the way through phase III trials. All the data was "objectively" analyzed and it all made sense in both cases and guess what-the criteria we chose to "objectively" analyze proved to play no role in the desired outcomes and in the former, the product proved useless in the role we desired, although provided tremendous benefit elsewhere (including the opening of a whole new field of neuro-receptor research) and in the latter, the "objective" criteria, we chose as "THE" indicator proved to have no success regarding immunity.

[Priaptor]

Further to Priaptor's comments below...if I am quite convinced that a recent installation of a $1000 Nordost interconnect is audibly superior to the $300 brand it replaced but the inference from some of of you is that this is akin to astrology or Ouija boards.

I work in structural engineering and recently attended a seminar given by a very gifted Prof who freely admitted that we cannot truly model the load path huge seismic forces may take as they run though a complexed connection, further stating that we must, simply, define a load path and the building will find it...a shocking and disturbingly candid statement. (and poorly paraphased)

Crude parallel but I suspect the science is just trying to keep up with these issues.

 

Why wdw, your irrational rationality sounds quite irrational, no?

[Priaptor]

"Are we to equate those who call themselves subjectivists with Christianity? Maybe so. They seem to share some things in common, like assumed moral superiority, belief in the palpably absurd and in imaginary entities, and a huge persecution complex."

 

Interesting response in a thread titled civility.

 

I am a Jew, but don't get where you are coming from. IMHO Christianity is indeed under attack in this country as is religion in general. It seems that the so called tolerant among us are only tolerant as long as we agree with their morals and principles.

[Priaptor]

I'd like to see you guys (wgscott & Julf) run this proposal by your significant other first, and see if they agree with you. Oh please do that, and film it.

 

If subjectivity = irrationality (as you propose) and choosing a spouse = a subjective decision, then your choice of spouse was an "irrational", or "absurd action". Correct?

 

YES

 

I admit defeat. There is no room for subjectivity as per your excellent example.

[Priaptor]

I think humor usually helps. Especially when you feel the urge to rip into someone you don't even know...

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2094[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]2096[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2095[/ATTACH]

 

Paul,

 

I am with you.

 

All I wanted to do was to express my visceral thrill with a pair of interconnects my audio dealer was nice enough to let me try. I hadn't even read the psychobabble from the cable maker's website before I tried it, which may be the most "objective" aspect of all the posts made to date.

 

Now Mayhem has basically assumed the role of judge, jury and hangmen regarding the intent of my post. In his/her desire to define the court of CA, he/she has totally misconstrued my post regarding the product and my comments regarding the same, especially my concept of "NOT" expensive.

 

Whatever, I stand by my ears and if anyone has a chance to hear these cables, it is, in my opinion, worth a listen, the manufacturers psychobabble not withstanding.

 

On to better things.

 

I am breaking in my newly acquired EMM DAC2X and will try to give my opinions after the break in period to the community. I am getting too old (not on Medicare at this time, but 6 years away, but wish there was an alternative) to deluge myself as I once did in the specs and architecture of Ed's design, but, from my previous experience as a dealer with his products, know that he is right much more than he is wrong. Along with my experience with Mr. Meitner and Chris's review (whose reviews I trust) and the price I got the unit for, I couldn't resist. Pretty dumb of me, but what the heck, I admit I am impulsive and am prone to make mistakes but my early listening sessions with the DAC2X makes me believe this product is a winner.

[Priaptor]

Chris,

 

 

 

Again just to clarify... Assuming (hypothetically) that someone says "I love how much better player software X sounds compared to player software Y", they are clearly not asking for a debate, and perhaps not even asking for comments of any sort. Based on what your are saying above, I assume it would thus be inappropriate to respond by stating "that is because you seem to have used software Y set to "ZZ" mode, in which it automatically encodes everything into 32 kb mp3"?

 

Yes, it is a silly, artificial example, but where do you draw the line?

 

Julf,

 

You bring up a good point. Where I do believe any subjective opinion needs to be scrutinized "scientifically" for those of us describing a product of enjoyment, to ensure the reader of the variables in involved. For example, in my case, was the SPL similar between the RCA cables I was trying compared the XLR in my system.

 

One of the reasons I do enjoy Chris's experience with a product is because he knows his system very well and understands the issue with changing the variables and the effect of the same on the products he is reviewing. There are few reviewers who do the same. Harry Pearson and Jon Valin come to mind. When I read other reviewers it is more to find out about new technology than their opinion, but those three, I trust their "opinion" because they do control their variables when trying a new product. My opinion of JV has changed from bad to good with time as I came to better understand his "process". HP I have always trusted his "ears" and I do Chris as well. Many reviewers unfortunately, when you check "associated equipment" are different with every review. The variables change so much it is hard to tell, as you bring up, what the other variables effect on the product may have been.

 

As to players, I really spent a year trying to maximize my MAC, careful with not to make major changes to more than one variable at a time, but was never really content. Reading Chris's review (between the lines) regarding the Aurender, I decided to try JRiver. Lo and behold the DAC I was using at the time, ARC DAC8, really did sound better with JRiver, properly setup. It was, IMHO, not a comparison. My observations were much later confirmed by those of us with ARC who were either using converters in order to use a Mac or others using CAPS or CAPS like alternatives. Later, speaking to the manufacturer confirmed the same.

 

In any case, I agree with your premise of understanding what variables if any have changed in addition to the product one is discussing when an opinion is being rendered.

[Priaptor]

But it seems trying to clarify the variables tends to be perceived as questioning/doubting by subjectively oriented members.

 

Well, I can't speak for the general population of CA posters, but there is indeed a place for both perspectives, especially, when a component of a system is changed and discussed as to the effects of the music in total.

 

Assuming I am not building a system from scratch, my methods always involve controlling the variables as much as possible so that I can analyze, "subjectively", to my liking or disliking, the one variable I change. That is how I do it. I can't speak for others.

 

When I analyzed the new cables I discussed, since they were being compared to XLR cables, the first thing I did was to adjust for volume differences so that "perception" of volume differences wouldn't be a variable.

 

However, regardless of what a manufacturer might claim, assuming I am truly analyzing an isolated variable, my ears are usually the judge of what I like or do not like.

 

There are many fine products out there, some I have even owned and I rather not mention brands so as not to offend others, that just don't do it for me, yet others rave about them and vice versa.