Delayed response from NAS drive

[blindjim]

I've recently installed an Iomega ix2 1TB NAS drive to a D link wireless routher which is the hub for my home LAN. With JRiver MC 12+ INSTALLED on my Vista 32 laptop. I use a USB out to a Bel Canto DAC3 which is connected to a preamp and HT receiver.

 

When I tell MC 12 TO PLAY from it's GUI a selected track I'm noticing an inordinate time delay of from 6 to 10 seconds for the track to begin playing. stoppage is immediate however. Tracks on the laptop HD are near immediate to play or stop.... just those files located on the NAS drive (connected via a very short ethernet cable) are slow to function.

 

I've made what I thought to be the prerequisite changes in J River tools > options > playback & general settigns.... play immediately, stop immediately, seek smooth playback scetion, and act as server.

 

Where do you think my bottle neck is? The Router? The wireless card in the laptop? or the NAS DRIVE itself?

 

The D link router is not a Gig A Bit router... just a standared A, B, G, router. 10/100 I think. Model 621 ?

 

otherwise I exp no dropouts, hic cups, etc. Once the files begin to play all is well.

 

Sure do appreciate any help here... Thanks much.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Does this happen for every song you play off the NAS drive or just the first song? Your hard drive(s) in the NAS may spin down after a period of time and this delays playback for the first track.

 

[Roseval]

Playing Red book audio is playing 16 bit PCM audio at 44.1 kHz.

This is 705600 bit/s or 0.67 Mbit/s.

We have stereo so 1.34 Mbit/s.

A WiFi network (802.11 G) has a bruto throughput of 53 Mbit/s.

Even if we assume an overhead of 4 your network capacity should be more than sufficient.

 

Assuming you are using Windows:

Open the task manager and choose Network.

If you press play,

- do you see activity in the network monitor the monent you press the button

- are the disk spinning or do you wake them from sleep mode

- is there somewhere in JRiver a buffer set to high (pre fetching before starting to play)

- are you using file sharing or is it media sharing (UPnP)?

 

 

[blindjim]

Chris

 

It doesn’t seem to matter, the delay occurs whenever beginning a tracks play, be it during that of another already playing one, or initially.

 

[blindjim]

Rosev

 

I was thinking the same thing as to thruput. Certainly it is speedy enough to do this as a "hard wired" (ethernet + USB) IN THE PAST VIA MY DESKTOP & usb HDD.

 

the issues are steming from the now wireless component... me thinks. Somehow.

 

As to your input:

- are the disk spinning or do you wake them from sleep mode

 

…..spinning to the best of my knowledge

 

- is there somewhere in JRiver a buffer set to high (pre fetching before starting to play)

 

….No. Not unless 0.50 seconds (the default allotted to buffering) is considered lengthy. With no perceived skipping, or dropouts once playing, I just left that setting alone.

 

…. Btw… file sharing no auxiliary PNP device aside from the items I mentioned above.

 

And thanks so much...

 

Anything else I might address such as mapping the network folder on the NAS Drive to the laptop or such?

 

 

 

[BobH]

A couple of thoughts come to mind.

 

1. De-Select running JRiver as a server - just point it to the NAS for the library.

 

2. Check the date/time settings in your NAS config pages to make sure that they are the same as the host machine - this can sometimes cause problems.

 

3. Hook the NAS up to your router via cable and see if the problem persists - if it goes away then you have a problem in the router's wireless config pages.

 

I've seen this last one work when a software firewall/av had been running when the NAS was first introduced. This shouldn't be a problem in Vista but still it depends a bit on the software. The above basically fixes a 'greyed' option in the Registry that refuses to allow itself to be fixed on the fly.

 

4. MIGHT work - disable all firewall/anti-virus software (leave the router firewall running if you have one) then run the Network Config Wizard. During the procedure disable 'File and Printer sharing'. Once you're finished, reboot to reload the firewall/av software. Now run the Wizard again and enable 'File and Printer Sharing' this time.

 

[Roseval]

Drive mapping: you might try, it is easy to do but I don’t expect much difference.

If you do think it is the Wifi, try a all wired setup. Eliminating possible causes is a good strategy.

Firewall: you might disable it but I don’t expect much, either it blocks or it doesn’t.

 

You might try the Explorer, go to the NAS and double click a song.

 

 

[blindjim]

thanks I'll get to those this evening hopefully...

 

FYI UPDATE

The iOMEGA ix2 nas hdd IS CONNECTED VIA A SHORT ETHERNET CABLE DIRECTLY TO THE d lINK ROUTER. Only the laptop is wireless.

 

I've also noticed using the laptop I have to kick start the file playing/sharing by opening explorer and selecting a file to be played by J R MC. Otherwie I get a notification window the files could not be found and to ensure MC Library is pointed to the correct location.

 

Only via Kick starting by manually selecting a file gets things going initially.... and Yes there is a delay there as well.

 

using playlists does reduce the delay by some good bit and it plays normally then, and without delays for the most part. directly selecting them or by double clicking them, regardless their location.... on the NAS or on the laptop HD.

 

it's like if the JR MC has seen it before it gets there quicker while in the playlist of course

 

Indescriminate playback or just jumpiong around in the JR GUI however or in Explorer does provide the delays again.

 

having just reorgainized the files by location with the NAS being the main source so far I am getting no delays... but now it knows what to play next well in advance.

 

Naturally having no sooner said that, again the 10 sec. delay comes right back with the next track being automatically selected!

 

Super.

 

I'm seeing no rhyme or reason for this.. No suspicious common threads.

 

 

[blindjim]

the Vista lap isn't using a Firewall. Just AVG antivirus as I seldom if ever web crawl with it.

 

Only the embedded windows vista firewall is active. Nothing third party.

 

Dont believe there is one on the router.

 

I was forced at one time to choose "intra net" despite whatever the default web browser settings were in order to gain first access... that setting hasn't changed according to the info at the bottom of the browsers pane.. it still says intranet rather than INTERNET.

 

 

[blindjim]

Well it's like this so far...

 

I did as much if not all of the suggestions listed here for me to try... those I hadn't done of course.

 

Did the clock bit.. firewall thingy... etc. Changed to OFF the server thingy... which didn't affect anything time wise, BTW.

 

I got down to about a 3-5 sec delay now.

 

I got there by the most unsuspeccted move too. I called the maker as it's under warranty, and going thru all the checks, we had to play a file. Iomega only will help you if using WMP. Not itunes, or others.

 

opening Explorer, selecting a file from the listed folders on the HAS, and selecting WMP (which was NOT setup previously on any of my machines), it played an mp3 file near immediately. iTunes took only a second longer to play that same file.

 

Super. WMP doesn't support the 400Gigs of FLAC & ALAC files I normally use. iTunes does the ALAC... not the FLAC.

 

Great.

 

But wait! Following initializing WMP, JR MC began to play the associated files, with but a 3-4 second delay while skipping about and double clicking this or that file.

 

So about 10 - 12 seconds got trimmed off the delays by actualizing windows media player! Sheesh. Who'd have thunk it?

 

WMP STILL IS NOT associated, nor plays, the files, but just getting it up and made available improved the speed of MC access times.

 

Just FYI... but thanks for all the insights... now to MC forums for more time savings. Near immediate playback is the goal.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Very interesting. Thanks for all the detail, I believe this will provide clues for one of us to figure out what is happening.

 

[Roseval]

Nice to hear.

 

If needed you can make WMP play FLAC and ALAC, see http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/WMP/FileFormat.htm

for more details

 

[BobH]

Fascinating! That's another one for the little black book of barking mad fixes! When it comes down to the mac/pc debates, Windows doesn't do itself any favours, does it?

 

[blindjim]

 

During the JRiver MC installation, the install wiz asks you to wait... "... while Media Center messes with WINDOWS Media Player".

 

I though perhaps it used some of the WMP 'arms' & codecs, search engines, etc. to establish it's own access to them.

 

In fact I thoughtit likely only sought out the players codecs... as it is a sizable download about 25-30 MB.... nealry like iTunes size in fact.

 

Apparently though it must use some of the connections WMP utilizes too, and would be my guess.

 

how? Beats me. But it sure seems as though it do. I've posted onto the JR MC forum for aid... but they're not too speedy over there... if at all.

 

Amazing as it is, I'd never ever thought to activate WMP. I haven't on any pc I've used in five years now.

 

Just shows to go ya... ya never know what's up the sleeve of software writters sometimes.

 

[blindjim]

Nope. I'm stuck with it/them though as my prerequisite accessibility software doesn't cross paltform.. nor are they inclined to do so this century.

 

Closest I could get would be with a MAC emulating windows, or loading windows onto a mac and trying to install my app onto that.... my curiosity there extends only to what gains would I really have then...???

 

[blindjim]

NOPE It doesn’t help at all.

 

But I’m stuck with it/them. My accessibility apps don’t run on the MAC os.

 

Not sure if they’d run if windows was loaded onto the MAC either… and then how much gain could one expect running Windows on a MAC ANYHOW???

 

 

[Roseval]

When it comes down to the mac/pc debates, Windows doesn't do itself any favours, does it?

If I look at blindjim's post, NAS is working right, Windows is working right, WMP is working right. Yeah, a typical black page for Windows..

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Roseval - I'm not sure I follow your comment. Since there is still a delay I'm not sure we can say any single piece of the puzzle is working can we?

 

[BobH]

Hi blindjim,

 

Did a bit more digging at work today (!!) and got this quote from Slashdot :

 

"Over the months since Vista's release, there has been no doubt about the reduced level of network performance experienced compared to Windows XP. However, some users over at the 2CPU forums have discovered an unexplained connection with audio playback resulting in a cap at approximately 5%-10% of total network throughput. Whenever any audio is being sent to a sound card (even, several users report, while paused), network performance is instantly reduced. As soon as the audio is stopped, the throughput begins to climb to its expected speed. It's a tough one for users — what do you pick, sound or speed? So much for multi-tasking."

 

This comment led to this forum link : http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?t=83112

 

It would appear to be a not uncommon problem with Vista. Maybe you can glean something from the thread that may help. Although it is primarily concerned with network speed there might be a connection with slow start-up?

 

Just a thought!

 

[Roseval]

Chris,

We can't, so we can't blame Windows for what might by a J River problem.

That's the essence of my comment.

 

Explorer, selecting a file from the listed folders on the HAS, and selecting WMP (which was NOT setup previously on any of my machines), it played an mp3 file near immediately. iTunes took only a second longer to play that same file.

Looks like it is not WMP, not iTunes but J River having some problem, sounds like a valid conclusion to me

 

 

 

[Roseval]

It would appear to be a not uncommon problem with Vista. Maybe you can glean something from the thread that may help. Although it is primarily concerned with network speed there might be a connection with slow start-up?

 

As far as I could judge, BlindJim don't have this problem using WMP or iTunes.

It is known that Vista reduces network speed by design when playing audio.

Networking might raise a lot of I/O on PCI/HD causing the audio to have dropouts.

I'm not sure if this is related but in the playback device setting you can not only set exclusive mode (WASAPI) but also high priority. Have not tested or verified if this is about the priority of the process or about networking.

 

But their might be a nice paradox in it. J River starts to play over the network and the network troughput is reduced. However, as far as I know this is about throtling network speed not stopping it. Beside for audio you don't need much bandwidth (1.3 Mbit/s exclusing overhead: http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/Performance.html )

 

 

 

[BobH]

Hi roseval,

 

Not a dig at Windows - I use it all the time, both at work and at home. But you have to admit that an apparent networking problem being partially alleviated by registering a media player with the system is not exactly what you might call intuitive! I can hear the MacPolice giggling from here.

 

Be Cool.

 

[BobH]

Hi blindjim,

 

Last one then I'm off to bed! My little black book gave me a fix for slow opening Office files. It's to do with Dynamic Data Exchange and possible problems and involves removing the file association with the DDE engine. It's a longish shot, but what the heck.

 

Go to Control Panel, Folder Options, File Types.

Scroll down to and select flac, or mp4, or any other file type you're having problems with. Do them one at a time and then, if it doesn't work, you've only got one step to undo.

Click Advanced, click the edit Button.

Uncheck "Use DDE".

Put your cursor in the Application box, arrow all the way to the right and put in "%1" (include the quote

marks), if it is not there already. IF there is /dde remove it.

Then OK you way out.

 

Things should work quickly again. !!

 

Good Luck!

 

[blindjim]

WELL IT SEEMS IT IS jr mc’S FAULT AT THIS POINT. Imo

THE INITIAL THOUGHT WAS FOR THE CONVERTIBLE TO BE THE INTERFACE FOR MUSICAL PLAYBACK INTO MY MAIN STEREO RIG. It is coming along… slowly.

Were it not for JR MC being a better sounding media player IMO, I’d likely not have gone down this road, and just had some mega changers modded instead. Oil well.

Here I am.

I don’t really notice slow downs on the net or LAN. Neither do WMP or iTunes have such issues with playback now. I simply don’t care for either the sound or the GUI in WMP. ItUNES sounds dry, and navigating WMP is a joke for me… other’s will fare far better I’m sure.

I’m almost certain JR MC will get on track at some point.

Much of Vista is still a mystery to me, but I’ll abide it too as I noticed a definite improvement in audio performance using it over XP. Still more using the German USB ASIO driver. More still from other areas too.

A connection between WMP & JR MC SEEMS apparent in selecting and tramsitting file playback. This instance was not as apparent to me previous to going wireless however… now it is though.

 

 

[blindjim]

WELL IT SEEMS IT IS jr mc’S FAULT AT THIS POINT. Imo

THE INITIAL THOUGHT WAS FOR THE CONVERTIBLE TO BE THE INTERFACE FOR MUSICAL PLAYBACK INTO MY MAIN STEREO RIG. It is coming along… slowly.

Were it not for JR MC being a better sounding media player IMO, I’d likely not have gone down this road, and just had some mega changers modded instead. Oil well.

Here I am.

I don’t really notice slow downs on the net or LAN. Neither do WMP or iTunes have such issues with playback now. I simply don’t care for either the sound or the GUI in WMP. ItUNES sounds dry, and navigating WMP is a joke for me… other’s will fare far better I’m sure.

I’m almost certain JR MC will get on track at some point.

Much of Vista is still a mystery to me, but I’ll abide it too as I noticed a definite improvement in audio performance using it over XP. Still more using the German USB ASIO driver. More still from other areas too.

A connection between WMP & JR MC SEEMS apparent in selecting and tramsitting file playback. This instance was not as apparent to me previous to going wireless however… now it is though.