Halide Design Bridge Review

New to the computer-audio family, I started with the hiFace, went to jkeny's hiFace mod, and finally landed on the Halide Bridge... all based upon reviews and suggestions on sites like this (thanks Chris!).<br />

<br />

hiFace = great value, great detail, huge (almost artificial) sound stage... but a bit brittle, or digital?<br />

<br />

hiFace mod from jkeny = wow! Smooth, analog sounding, maybe a tiny-tiny bit less detail in the upper mid frequencies, but thoroughly enjoyable.<br />

<br />

Halide Bridge = Initial impression was not favorable... way too much information and detail, but somehow lacked real definition. But after two weeks of daily listening; bliss! All that detail and information has completely fleshed out and I did not know that my system was capable of what I'm hearing. Bass is not only extremely well defined; it's got real power and presence. Vocals are rich and real. Piano sounds in-the-room accurate. My system has never sounded better.<br />

<br />

One qualifier; I also updated my Amarra Mini from 1.2 to 2.0 at about the same time. <br />

<br />

I think I've landed my system... no, really!<br />

Hi MichiGoon - Great to hear you listened to these components yourself and came to a decision. It's wonderful that your system is performing great now :~)

Sorry Chris that my comment seemed to cause such a ruckus! I was in a hurry, and only meant to defend my mentor and dear friend Hp - which, when just getting home from the club (which I was when I posted last) can lead me to seem like a complete A-hole!<br />

<br />

I think what you're doing here at Computer Audiophile is the future of the Hifi bizness, and I'm psyched to keep reading.<br />

<br />

As for the confusion in the sentence in my last post: I meant to say that despite having worked for TAS, I don't think there is an absolute either - just the journey. As a music addict, my audio comes second, and its just the vehicle - but I love it all!!! <br />

<br />

<br />

Hi MichiGoon<br />

<br />

Congratulations on your acquisition of a product which lands your system onto a higher sonic plane... and satisfies you in the process.<br />

<br />

But why no mention of the digital cable or Hiface type you used?<br />

<br />

I have found myself in the same boat as you with regard to system performance and the consequent increased satisfaction level I achieved although the path is was a little different for me. Mine came by the Hiface too, but with an Oyaide DB 510 1.3M BNC digital cable <br />

<br />

Previous to that cable I used Stereovox cables, both the XV2 & XV2 Ultra on it. <br />

<br />

I agree with some of your assessments of the Hiface’ sound when coupled with the XV2, and a bit less so with the Ultra as the digital conduit to my DAC.<br />

<br />

However I used entirely different media players for playback than the ones you used.<br />

<br />

With the Oyaide DB510 cable in place however I disagree completely with your findings on the Hiface’s performance. Using the Hiface is a two stage affair. The Hiface PLUS a cable… <br />

<br />

I’ve found through the years, system synergy is quite the thing in any audio outfit, PC, CD, or analog, for that matter.<br />

<br />

AS you stated you don’t have an enormity of experience in this area, neither do I. But wouldn’t you say it unfair to place your thoughts good or bad, solely on the Hiface’s back, as a separate cable also needs be a part of the picture and definitely provides it’s influence as well to the resultant sound quality?<br />

<br />

So, If I may ask, Which cable (s) brands & types did you attach to the Hiface that played a part in prompting you to press on to the halide Design unit, which uses it’s own proprietary cabling. <br />

<br />

If you please?<br />

<br />

I’m simply quite curious to know for the above reasons of course, and the fact I’ve found as much contentment with my own affair using the Hiface BNC & Oyaide DB510, in my system. And nearly as you have mentioned here with a few disparities between our separate experiences. I feel absolutely no compunction whatsoever to even investigate some other USB converter or some other digital cable.<br />

<br />

In fact I am so enamored by this latest Hiface/Oyaide combo I posted my own thoughts on each and their affects to my system’s sound quality from their acquisition (s) to now, noting also a few other digital links/cables here:<br />

<br />

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?rcabl&1277820660&openmine&zzBlindjim&4&5#Blindjim<br />

<br />

<br />

Knowing the cable (s) used would shed a better light on your comments and perhaps help others in the doing.<br />

<br />

I do appreciate your comparative assignments between them at any length but would love to know this missing information.<br />

<br />

Again, congrats and thanks much.<br />

I switched digital cables to the new Black Cat Veloce and wow, what a difference. HiFace is nothing by itself without a proper digital cable.

"...the Hiface is nothing without a good digital cable."<br />

<br />

Very funny, and very, very true.<br />

<br />

i had to pick between either the new Black Cat OR the Oyaide. Based on the Ultra's audition in house, I went with the Oyaide. Thankfully, the choice worked extremely well for me and my audio arrangement.<br />

<br />

so well in fact I still am not completely over it. Simply stunning IMHO. yeah... I'm amazed too.<br />

<br />

Glad your's did likewise for you.... AND cost less too!<br />

<br />

Cables do matter when you don't think they ought to actually. they can add to, or subtract from, a device's optimization within a system.

""I’ve found through the years, system synergy is quite the thing in any audio outfit, PC, CD, or analog, for that matter.""<br />

<br />

This is the TRUTH! It's all about the sound of the system; how everything interacts. When you get things that sing together - that's where the magic comes from.<br />

<br />

I dig the HRT Streamer II+ USB DAC, especially for the $$, with the Nucleus USB cable from Locus Design + Nordost Heimdall interconnects.<br />

<br />

I also like the StyleAudio TOPAZ USB DAC/headphone amp, plus the same cables above.<br />

<br />

It's a brave new world!!!<br />

<br />

Listening to the new Wolf Parade record (Expo86) on Sub Pop<br />

<br />

Couldn't agree with you more, blindjim and Mike. Every modification makes a difference to some degree. And system synergy is everything.<br />

<br />

blindjim, sorry if my evaluations seemed unfair. But I'll admit, you're right. Unless one can test every component with every cable in ones' listening room, any observation will be unfair to some degree. My experience is only my experience - and I'm sure the majority of members here have listened to more gear and been at this longer than I have. <br />

<br />

I wish I had had the opportunity to try the hiFace with the Oyaide DB510 your mating it with! I was using a stereovox XV2, as you suspected. Good call!<br />

<br />

Have you had the chance to hear jkeny's modded hiFace or the Halide Bridge?

I'm interested in your comments on the modified Hiface Vs Halide.<br />

<br />

As others have pointed out - it's difficult to do a comparison of the transport alone when the Halide is a transport + cable combined. Actually, it's no SPDIF cable - just a connector directly to the DAC. This can be beneficial if the impedance termination is correct.<br />

<br />

Why the long break-in period for the Halide?<br />

<br />

Here's one idea which may be of interest to all those Hiface owner cable swappers - try an RF attenuator plug on the cable. (Note: This will only work for Hiface users). <br />

<br />

The attenuator is a simple BNC plug that looks like a adaptor plug & cost $12 from minicircuits. What it does is reduces the signal level. So how is this beneficial - well it's beneficial because it will doubly reduce any reflections on the cable. Reflections are the result of impedance mismatches & can be a cause of jitter. It comes in different attenuations 3, 6, 10, 15, 20dB - the higher the number the more reduction in signal - I would suggest a 10dB one from the list at the bottom of this page but experiment by all means http://www.minicircuits.com/products/attenuators_coax_fixed.html<br />

<br />

It works on the Hiface because the SPDIF signal output is high at about 2Vpp & this can be reduced to 0.5Vpp and still be in the SPDIF range. There are a lot of measurements showing the reduction of these reflections using a Hiface on Diyhifi.org<br />

<br />

It's a cheap & worthwhile experiment & may be the best thing you ever tried - the equivalent of a near perfect cable. I & others have found it improved the sound of the Hiface, both stock & modified!<br />

<br />

It could even be used like the Halide as a way of directly plugging in the Hiface into your DAC without SPDIF cable!

<br />

Sorry…. I’ve not heard the tweaked Hiface, nor the Bridge thingy.<br />

<br />

I tried both the RCA & BNC Hiface though. And several digital ICs.<br />

<br />

I’m normally a “fix it till it breaks” sort, but as things are now I’m being as honest as the new driven snow when I say I’ve no desires at all to make another change.<br />

<br />

I’m getting that analog like reproduction with as much resolution and detailed info from the files as I think is possible…. And then hearing myself say that I begin to wonder, “really?” <br />

<br />

Maybe, Maybe not… no rig is perfect, and I suppose there is always going to be a faster gun for hire out there somewhere. For attending to the sound I still have some good degree of flexibility on hand. I can roll tubes, swap power cords, and downstream interconnects.<br />

<br />

I just have no desires to do such things given what I’m hearing lately from my stereo.<br />

<br />

All of these moves alter the sounds visage, though none will improve upon it’s focus quite so much as that which is being gleaned from the files by the current scalpels & microscopes in use, Hiface, Oyaide, and BC D3. to some degrees too, the file type, media player (s) and output mode. Considering the aim is bit perfect/true replay, output mode choices are as well reduced to ASIO, WASAPI & Kernel Streaming, for PCs.<br />

<br />

My curiosity factor has been shelved for a time. I feel as I alluded to in my description of the H&O combo, that they are now “allowing” my components to be better realized, and I am fortunate to own one of the top tier line stage preamps ever built, IMHO. At $10K it’s the only thing I’ve ever heard I can say straight faced, “is a bargain and that was with 2005 dollars.<br />

<br />

If in the next iteration halide Design decides to offer solely it’s converter sans the affixed analog interconnects, well maybe I’d be obliged to check it out, I’m more interested in the upcoming M2T Evo release … but I’ll likely stand pat even then. <br />

<br />

Sometimes…. When it’s apparently fixed, finally, it seems prudent to just leave things alone and enjoy it. <br />

<br />

Will rogers said, “If you set out to dig a hole, and you find yourself in it. Stop. You’re done.”<br />

<br />

Sonic bliss or a reasonable facsimile of it, was my goal going into this PC based audio endeavor. It sure looks like I’m there. For me it’s all about the destination, with regard to audio, not the journey. I’ll force myself to live with being ecstatic about the sound I’ve gotten to now, if it kills me and concentrate on acquiring new music, instead of new devices.<br />

<br />

Getting new music is far more fun than deciding on and buying new appliances…. And lots easier.<br />

I've been using the Bridge (BNC) for almost a week and can definitely say that I am happy with the results. For background, the Bridge has coincided with a change in my system. My previous setup was a PPC G5->Focusrite Saffire LE->Timbre TT1-2000. I now have a new Mac Mini->Halide Bridge->Timbre TT1-2000. I could try and go into detail on what the improvements are but to leave it simple, I'll just say it's better. Overall, I find it's just more enjoyable to listen to my system the way it is now. If there is a break in period required then it should sound even better. Installing the Bridge was as easy and it gets. One possibility is that the improvements I am hearing may not necessarily be entirely the Bridge. What I mean is if it's doing what it is supposed to, it might also allow me to hear the full capabilities of the DAC which could have been masked by the previous setup. <br />

<br />

I have since purchased Amarra Junior. Other than some clicking, which is a know issue on some MP3 files (I use AIFF but have podcasts for background music), it has also made a nice improvement. While this is a hobby and we can are constantly looking for improvements, I can certainly say that I can finally take a break and simply enjoy the music. Just my two cents...

<br />

Jkenny<br />

<br />

I've a couple questions here.<br />

<br />

1. how is impedance an issue, given the BNC cable being used is in compliance with the 75 ohm standard design practice for digital cables?<br />

<br />

I can see a bit better where this argument could make more sense if we were speaking of say, analog cables….. and I know lots of digital 75 ohm cables aren’t even close to the design spec of 75 ohm…. But if one is…. Then shouldn’t the resultant audio be seen as much improved?<br />

<br />

I mean as wel, there are several arguments, some initiated by cable makers which offer a longer length cable as the fix for a better digital cable interface integration… usually they say of late… 1.5M is required to quell those timing issues best. <br />

<br />

Now you say it’s an impedance mismatch here with some digital cables.<br />

<br />

Maybe. Maybe not. Darn few of us have the resources abilities, or inclinations to measure such things, so we measure with our ears, for right or wrong.<br />

<br />

As you said use of those ‘adapters’ listed in your post could exclude the need for a digital cable at all, it’s supposed then too a USB cable with a coupler is then required…. A male to A female, not an A to B as is the usual case.<br />

<br />

Shouldn’t then the USB cable being used also provide some instance for mismatching impedances?<br />

<br />

2. Shouldn’t also you indicate that some of the links included in your post are indeed self serving, and that you are a dealer/modder and have an aim of making money via your efforts with alterations to the Hiface, going in? <br />

<br />

I’ve no issue with someone trying to help someone else altruistically, and I suspect some of your post was intended as such, but adding a link to your own website which is set up for profit without any disclaimer making mention of that seems well, less than, and just self serving, detracting from the veracity of your former comments.<br />

<br />

Your last link appears to be nothing more than free advertisement, nestled into a commentary on a competing product without such a disclosing statement. Don’t you think?<br />

<br />

Please forgive me If I missed that disclosure in your post somehow.<br />

Does every poster here who has a commercial interest always put a disclaimer on every post? I don't know the rules here & seem to be getting pulled up every time I post? Please clarify this. <br />

<br />

I thought that you might have seen the reference to the jkeny modified Hiface, a couple of posts below & could work out that I sell modified Hifaces. If this needs to be spelled out then I have now just done it.<br />

<br />

You need to take into account the any impedance mismatches in the transport or receiver units themselves, not just the cables. I'm not going to get into an argument over about this - there are measurements taken on Diyhifi.org which clearly show these reflections. But if you have a perfectly impedance matched digital line from transmitter to receiver then you don't need this.<br />

<br />

Remember this applies ONLY to the Hiface!<br />

<br />

Here's a link to a piece of music I used to test the attenuators effectiveness - it's Nat King Cole & he sounds a bit spitty on the "S" sounds plus violins sound a little edgy. These issues were ameliorated when one of these attenuators was put in-line. http://www.4shared.com/dir/_nTfhC5b/Music.html<br />

<br />

If you can hear this spittyness the you might benefit from an attenuator.<br />

<br />

I'm not sure what your second point is - I gave a link to minicircuits attenuator page so as people could purchase them - how is this self serving? These attenuators do NOT require a modified Hiface, they can be used on a stock Hiface.<br />

<br />

The link in my sig is to my homepage - exactly the same as is used by any number of posters here who do the same - why not chide them in the same way? If it's a rule, I don't know about it. I'll remove it if it offends but I only do what I see others do & consistency & fair treatment is needed, I believe. There it's done <br />

<br />

If you find that the information about attenuators unhelpful or in the wrong place then by all means then I'll remove it. I was just posting something which i thought might be useful. Apologies if I offended you

As you probably remember, I was critical of you in the past with your posting, but (IMO) you've not done anything wrong in this thread - though discussing/promoting the competitor product in a review thread is bad etiquette in my mind (not that you began the discussion jkeny). The only exception to this rule would be a simple mention of "you may also like to try x, y or z" where the member has experience of both the mentioned product AND the one under review (and only from non-commercially interested members). Any other discussion of for example the HiFace should take place in another thread! <br />

<br />

On the other hand, if you add a link in your .sig, then I think it's pretty obvious that you have a vested interest in the site listed - please do bring your link back as now you are talking about the HiFace and modding it without disclosing at all your commercial interest. At the end of the day though jkeny - you maybe need to grow some thicker skin, or stop posting anything referring to the HiFace. Where you have any commercial interest there is a very fine line between being altruistic and helpful and being self promoting and people will always want to question you on which side of the line you are on.<br />

<br />

Eloise

Jeez, you guys are impossible to please - Get rid of the URL/bring it back, I'm twisting in ever decreasing circles here to try not offend.<br />

<br />

I don't know how you can discuss the Halide without reference to other products?<br />

<br />

I was just trying to show how the Halide had used a long USB cable & no SPDIF cable - that this could also be done with a Hiface plus add some extra useful info?<br />

<br />

I'm not talking about a modification here - it's just a plug that you attach to your existing cable (or directly at the SPDIF out of the hiface). I don't sell it & have no interest in doing so.<br />

<br />

Why can't you just accept this as useful info & not self promotion on my part?<br />

<br />

I'm leaving my URL off my sig as it seems to cause more trouble when left on but I would suggest that you could make similar complaints to others that have posted about cables & directed people to their web-site for more information. I saw no such complaints about self-serving to this poster.<br />

<br />

Maybe I should just change my username to "The modded Hiface guy" & there would be no problem about disclosure/posting or whatever?

I have been using the Bridge for 3 weeks now, and I can't be happier.<br />

It was a huge step over the optical connection of my PC.<br />

I thought of buying the Hiface, but I don't like the idea of spending money on an interface that can't be used on Linux.<br />

I've tried the Bridge with Ubuntu and mpd 0.16...amazing combination. <br />

You can build an efficient server with a sheevaplug, with Ubuntu, MPD and the halide, and you'get a stunning result....by the way this is my next step.<br />

I'm sure the modified Hiface could sound better than the standard one, but really I'm not interested in use a battery-powered interface, and spending time and money swapping digital cables.<br />

When you buy the Hiface, please consider the cost of the modification (you will end up doing that...because we all love playing with our toys) and the cost of few digital cables...Are you still sure the Halide Bridge is expensive?

Sorry I was trying to be helpful here...<br />

<br />

A question for you - have you PERSONALLY compared the HiFace (unmodified) to the Halide Bridge? If not then you have no reference to compare the two and therefore any comments are pure speculation on your part and therefore irrelevant on a thread which is a review of the Halide Bridge (this is only MY opinion).<br />

<br />

<em>"Why can't you just accept this as useful info & not self promotion on my part?"</em><br />

I actually commented that your information was not self promotion (or at least that was my intention). People are not responding because we are getting at you or anything, that was why I said you need to grow some thicker skin. Every time anyone questions IF you are self promoting we get you flying off in a mardi about how everyone on this site is picking on you (or words to that effect). I've also commented on other people making self-serving comments on other threads!<br />

<br />

As for your URL (or lack of) I thought Chris has asked for you to display your URL so it's pretty irrelevant what other people think. If your URL is there then at least people could take comments like "a modded HiFace beats any other USB to SPDIF converter" (though you've never AFAIK made such a statement) in the context of you as someone who has commercial service making such mods - and decide for themselves what that context means!<br />

<br />

Eloise

DID I ever make any comparison between the hiface & Halide? <br />

<br />

I hope you do apply the same critical rules to others but I haven't seen it.<br />

<br />

Chris, AFAICR, never asked me to put the site on my sig! I think it will cause more trouble than it's worth - just look at blindjim's post - I reckon if I hadn't got the URL an it he may have not have a negative connotation to the whole post but I may be wrong?<br />

<br />

I really don't want to hijack this thread so if you have any more comments/suggestions can we do this off-line

I've added the appropriate identifying information to John's signature.<br />

<br />

Please Remember -> When in doubt about a possible conflict of interest don't comment.

Personally, I followed your links and only took exception to the one placing me at your site without any previous mention it would unfold into one wherein you were selling something.<br />

<br />

Arriving there uninitiated about it beforehand it did cast a veil over things IMO. <br />

<br />

posting online, and emails don't exactly translate the tone with which they are often intended. one can take them in a few ways I suppose, I guess it depends on how secure one is about what they are doing when they post them.<br />

<br />

Like your website link in your posted commentary, and my question about it.<br />

<br />

Personally I saw nothing malicious or even untoward in my comments or intent to you.<br />

<br />

Neither do I re-read lengthy commentary or every other thread on any wwebsite so as to spot some previous possible disclaimer, from the posters therein.<br />

<br />

I guess I'm just so used to seeing those people in the industry make known to other's that they are indeed designers, modders, dealers, etc. I've begun to take it for granted all the pros act in a very open book fashion when helping others so as not to appear with some other motivations than merely the aid each had submitted.<br />

<br />

I proposed my thoughts, asked my questions and then asked if perhaps after some reconsideration you might see lending a link to a commercial endeavor you sponsor as being somewhat devaluating of your posted content, if no such assignment had been yet made.<br />

<br />

Obviously this struck a tender spot on you and I regret that. however IMO it seems to me being square and up front on a matter such as this can only aid one's cause (s), whatever they may be.<br />

<br />

Credibility on the web is often in a vacuum. Nondescript, nameless, faceless and usually without any identifying labels short of pseudonyms and unverified websites. It’s very nature is ominus, predisposing many to casual suspicions quite often. <br />

<br />

Being open & up front online seems the more positive way to go to me…. Especially were I back in business for myself, despite the technical aid I could provide I’d want to attempt at least to allay some of those doubts as often and as readily as possible. But of course, that’s just me.<br />

<br />

With regard to what some other individuals do or do not, can’t be the bar to which I or some other is held accountable. Such a position is simply juvenile and short sighted. Jusgement is finite and uniquely pointed towards the person…. Not the group, barring conspiratorial actions, naturally. Being forthright and open are quality personality traits which speak for themselves. When they are proffered and or, when they are withheld. <br />

<br />

As to posting a disclaimer every time you submit a post to a thread here, in the signature section of your account page, you could make that statement and it would appear without you having to reiterate it each and every time. I mean how simple is that to do? Or not to do…. I suppose. Though I can’t at all see the latter argument holding any water.<br />

<br />

But I’m cool with what you do, or do not, going forward…. As I now know more of your position…. New folks come online each day though and they may not be quite so enlightened as to your past, so you might want to preempt such queries in the future somehow or just keep them in the dark. Either way suits me and I as before, bare you no ill will. <br />

<br />

Chris, that's fine! I wasn't in any doubt about the post as it had nothing to do with my commercial site. <br />

<br />

Just as a matter of explanation - I don't make my living from the Hiface modifications - I have a "real" job so I'm very much a hobbyist too & just got asked to do these mods for a number of people after I had posted the modification instructions on-line.I'm just letting people know where I'm coming from on this! <br />

<br />

I'm also in search of the best sound & not pushing the Hiface or it's modifications! If the Halide sounds better, I'm interested in this fact, not because I want to denigrate it in some way but because I want to know how it achieves it.<br />

<br />

@blindjim, I posted in reply to your statement about the different cables you had tried with the Hiface & thought it might be useful info! Sorry, if it caused you to baulk.

Halide owners: does it look like it would be easy to Mod the Halide Bridge to accept an aftermarket USB cable? I am wondering about putting a USB jack in it to replace the hard wired cable.

I would contact Halide about this barrows. The guys are really cool and I'm sure they'll let you know either way. If I remember correctly it's not that simple to replace the cable as it's part of the design, not just an add-on type of thing.

<br />

Nice review Chris.<br />

I read the review, and then read a few of the subsequent posts form both the irate and the more relaxed.<br />

I had come across what was an earlier incarnation of this Dac which had a pretty solid reputation as a competent product and thought I would head over to the Halide Design web site and see what they had to say about their new product.<br />

<br />

“Choice of BNC or RCA connector. Clean, ultra-low jitter output.”<br />

Good idea, not quite sure what the plug type has to do with the amount of jitter but never mind…<br />

<br />

“Plug and play, 24-bit audio, up to 96 kHz resolution.”<br />

Great, looks like a lot of manufacturers are at least looking at extending the bit rate and resolution of reasonably priced products.<br />

<br />

You just know what’s coming now don’t you?<br />

<br />

“Cryogenic treatment. A long kept secret in the audiophile world, cryogenic treatment results in a dramatic improvement in sonic clarity and detail.”<br />

<br />

Now that I’ve finished rolling around the floor laughing perhaps someone could point to a place where I can find any (even a very little bit) of scientific evidence that freezing an audio component at 77 degrees Kelvin in liquid Nitrogen (apparently) makes any measurable difference to how it sounds?<br />

Still, no worries, at least we know its going to be strong enough to stand on.<br />

This is still a thread on the "Halide Bridge Review", is it not? I would love to hear what folks have to say about the Bridge, BUT ONLY those folks that have actually heard it.<br />

<br />

Honestly, I couldn't care less about subjective opinions on how a manufacturer does or does not market their equipment.<br />

<br />

Have you heard it? What are your thoughts? PERIOD<br />

<br />

Thanks!