SACD ripping using your PS3 (part 2)

[Kal Rubinson]

I have about 400 CDs, 80 SACDs, 10 DVD-As, and have been a longtime audio enthusiast. I have always used traditional surround sound receivers and combo players to listen to this collection. I now want to make a big push into digitizing my collection. Ideally I would like to be able to

1. Digitize my entire collection

2. Playback in native format - two channel for CDs and some SACDs and multichannel for many SACDs and DVD-As

3. Use some easy method to pick out which music to play

 

A newbie question - can this be done?

I will cover some issues and options in my May column due out shortly.

 

Kal

[Kal Rubinson]

That's great darkmass. Welcome to CA.

 

I'm currently in the same boat as Brian (bmoura) and Synfreak. But it works for you and Jesus, so that's promising. It'll get figured out. Although I'm an old veteran at doing ISO extractions en masse, having the forethought to produce a GUI version is a great thing.

I had trouble with it, too, but got it to work on another computer (and a non-defective ISO).

[Kal Rubinson]

Edit: I am beginning to question "why extract at all". The best players out there read and play ISO files directly, and if you are concerned about accidentally picking the multichannel track in a stereo DAC setup then use JRIver and create a two-rule view (file type equals "SACD", channels less than or equal to "2"). Yes, JRiver calls ISOs by the file type of "SACD". ......................

 

Wow. You come through again. Of course, my rule would be the inverse so that I would see only the MCH files!

[Kal Rubinson]

I understand. But one question: how do you state this then? You aren't listening to DSD in either case.

No one listens to DSD, only to analog. So the issue is how you get there and what you do along the way. Carl and I agree that the use of good channel management and roomEQ has a greater positive impact on the end sound than anything related to matters of DSD-PCM transcoding or, even, some downsampling. That is not to say that, potentially, doing all processing in DSD at full original bandwidth would not provide another incremental improvement but that is not possible today.

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal, yes, of course...but that was not the question. The question was whether the ISO played back as DSD (and then analog, yes, of course ) sounds any different than the DSF files (played back as DSD....and then analog, yes of course) We were not asking what does better with a format conversion to PCM.

I assumed that you "get it" but wanted to make this statement in open discussion.

 

I fully get why you guys are going PCM...and frankly, in a multichannel world with channel trims, delays and bass management (which I brought up ad nauseum in my exaSound e28 DAC review...I get this stuff) PCM is much more maleable. Frankly, it opens up DACs like the LIO-8 and other PCm-based multichannel DACs too (exaSound e28 prowess at native DSD multichannel notwithstanding...I don;t need delays or bass mgmt so staying DSD to analog is best for me, as is e28 )

Right. We all have different needs and wants. I do not know the answer to the fundamental question as I have not put in enough effort to assess it. While I have made comparisons often but casually, there was no noted difference (DSD from ISO vs. DSD from DFF/DSF as well as DSD direct to analog vs. DSD to PCM to analog). That is why I am comfortable with what I do: I discern a distinct improvement.

[Kal Rubinson]

Thanks, Ted.

[Kal Rubinson]

FYI

TRAX Audio SACD Extractor

 

This extracts files from an ISO but has no way to get the ISO from the disc itself. In other words, it does what a few other programs, some free, already do. Mebbe it does it better? Dunno.

[Kal Rubinson]

I've been waiting anxiously to see if the multichannel DSD becomes available on the next Oppo through it's USB connection from a computer. Currently, the Exasound E28 and the triple mytek are the only units that can do that.

In addition to the Merging Technologies NADAC, there is now the miniDSP U-DAC8 which, at $299, is enticing even though it is only 24/192 and no DSD. FWIW, anyone using an EQ system will be converting DSD to PCM anyway.

[Kal Rubinson]

I don't believe there are any SACD players that are capable of sending a DSD bitstream to an external DAC, except the Vivaldi stack which uses a proprietary connection between their transport and DAC. I think there are licensing issues with Sony that prevent an SACD player (including Sony's own) from outputting a DSD bitstream on their digital outputs. Some may be able to downsample DSD to PCM but not all even will do that.

Yes but, as Ted said, it is possible with HDMI.

[Kal Rubinson]

The link was missing the colon after http:

 

Sony PlayStation 3 60GB Piano Black PLAYS PS3 PS2 SACD CECHA01 3.55 OFW #2

 

Thanks. I just bought one of them.

[Kal Rubinson]

Couple hundred is a pretty decent price these days.

 

**Words of advice**: Sony built these things without adequate cooling. Running these for any considerable length of time will make them heat up and quite possibly die.

 

So:

 

- Rip one disc in a session. (At the very most two if you've got a two-disk set.)

 

- Make sure ventilation openings are free from dust and keep them that way.

 

- Find a reasonably powerful desk fan to blow through those openings while the machine is on.

 

Yes, it is a back-up to the one I have been using and to hold me until Mr. Wicked's new ripper appears. Mine runs all day but it sits, unenclosed, in front of an open window. The heat differential between the vented air and ambient temperature is barely detectable and the differential between the intake temperature and ambient is similarly small but, of course, in the other direction.

[Kal Rubinson]

The PS3 uses FAT32 format, limited to 32GB, so that's the size USB pen drive I use. Don't ever rip more than 32GB by accident, however, all the ISOs already on the USB pen drive may get/be damaged as a result (happened to me more than once, just continued ripping, brain like a sieve…).

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

That is good advice. OTOH, I use the web method so that I can rip ISOs of any size and not bother with naming and file concatenation. In fact, I can run multiple PS3s simultaneously through one PC to a 2Tb portable drive.

[Kal Rubinson]

Just to be clear, network ripping is only a tiny bit faster than to a USB3 thumb drive. The PS3 limits the ultimate speed.

Does PS3 support USB3, Carl?

 

The big savings were elimination of extra steps like not having to copy the ISO on the thumb drive to the PC for extract and not having to use hjsplit to piece large ISOs back together, due to the FAT 4G file size limitation. My rips were mainly all large classical albums, frequently exceeding 4G. Saying goodbye to hjsplit, etc. is a huge time saver.

True. However, I connect 2 (sometimes 3) PS3s to my network and rip from them simultaneously. Thus, the output from each PS3 is unchanged but my own time efficiency is greatly increased.

[Kal Rubinson]

I have often had multiple network rips concurrent with multiple ISO-DSF extracts all running at the same time while simultaneously listening to something in 5.1 Mch from my DSF library using JRiver on the fly DSD-PCM conversion and bass management and Dirac room correction all running at the same time on the same PC. Ditto while watching a Blu-Ray video via my AMD R9 270 GPU's HDMI with 7.1 DTS-HD MA audio. USB out for audio in each case was to my Exasound E28.

 

Did I see or hear anything different? In a word, nope. Not at all. It still sounded and looked great to me, as usual. It is just a DIY Win 7 Pro, Intel I7 a generation or two old PC with 16GB of ram, all under $1,000, nothing special.

Nothing special? It works!

[Kal Rubinson]

The other option for ripping visibility is to use the network ripper to a PC. This is how I do it and I've never had an issue with visibility or getting partial rips. It also saves a step in the workflow because you don't have to copy files from the USB stick to a hard drive to do the iso2dsf step. In fact, I run them in parallel with one iso going through Dsf conversion while another is being created by the ripper.

Agreed. Also, one can run multiple PS3s in parallel!

[Kal Rubinson]

But one disappointment for me has been the lack of good multi-channel downloads (I know about 2L… channel classics, nativeDSD etc) and I did bought a few. But they are expensive to download (I am Canadian so the current state of the can $ does not help).

Here's another excellent download site: The Spirit of Turtle

[Kal Rubinson]

I could be wrong, but I believe that in order to replace the official 3.55FW with the OtherOS3.55 version, you need to start up the PS3 in recovery mode (or something like that). In other words, if the PS3 has a firmware version LOWER than 3.55 you can simply install OtherOS via the usual method. But if the PS3 has firmware that's already AT 3.55 you can still install OtherOS but you need to do it a different way.

My experience is similar.

[Kal Rubinson]

Ted! Happy to see you here! I'm using your guide in the hope to rip my SACDs from the CECHA PS3 with version 3.15 installed but have run into a problem. I've copied the SACD ripper files and the PS3 Keys into the root directory on a USB flash drive, which I then insert into a USB port in the front of the PS3. However, whenever I go the Game part of the menu, I don't get the “Install pkg file” option.

 

I have rebooted the PS3 and moved the USB flash drive to different USB slots to no avail.

 

Any idea what I may be doing wrong?

You probably have OS version 3.55 and you will have to use the alternative install procedure. I had to do that with one of my PS3s.

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal, Do you have a recommendation from this site?

 

I am not sure what you are asking.

[Kal Rubinson]

My apologies, The Spirit of Turtle.

 

The Prokofiev symphonies and the Beethoven piano concerti.

[Kal Rubinson]

Just saw the link to your guide, ted_b.

 

Out of curiousity, is there another piece of equipment that does what the (suitably chosen) Sony PS3 does?

 

I think you can also do this with a Sonoma Workstation. ;-)

[Kal Rubinson]

Something strange happened the other day while ripping SACDs. I ripped about 30 discs to ISOs but, when going to play them, I found that 3 of the discs had only stereo tracks and no multichannel tracks in the ISO. The discs play MCH just fine and, when I re-ripped them, I got both stereo and MCH tracks with no changes in hardware, software or procedure.

 

Has this happened to others?

[Kal Rubinson]

Which ripper version are you using?

36 or 37

[Kal Rubinson]

....................the ripped iso are of reasonable size about 2.7Gb. they are Classical music with multiple artists and long track name. In one disc it hangs at track 3 and cannot go on during the extraction from iso to dsf. I have tried to shorten the folder name which is the only name I can shorten.

I have had such problems ocassionally and, it turns out, there was a glitch in the ripping. When I re-rip them, the ISOs are always larger than the first time and they play/convert fine.

 

Jriver cannot play these iso because I guess they are usually compressed dst.

That's not it.

 

And actually I have not succeeded in playing any of the iso files in jriver.

A separate issue, I think.

[Kal Rubinson]

Have just ripped Cream "Fresh Cream-Stereo&Mono" SHM SACD and Stevie Wonder "Songs In The Key Of Life" both of which result in 2 ISOs (.001, .002) which total 4.57GB and 4.42GB respectively.

 

Have tried joining the files with HJSplit but keep getting Error 112. Based on this broken English link <HJSplit - Troubleshooting "I / O error 112"), I opened Edge (previously Explorer) and cleaned up temp files, etc. Did NOT run CCleaner as suggested.

 

Previously had joined a 2-part ISO but it was only about 4.1GB.

 

Anybody had experience and know of a fix?

 

Also, should I be selecting "Convert DST to DSD" in SACD_Extract?

 

I used to have this problem periodically when ripping to the USB flash drive due to a limitation in the PS3's ability to make large files. Since I switched to the network mode using my PC to send the ISOs to a hard drive, the ISOs are ripped intact. No need to join.