iTunes playback with ULN-2

[der_bothaus]

Pretty newb question here. I am trying to find the best setup for general iTunes listening with my ULN-2.

I know iTunes should be set to 100% and all sound enhancements off (ie. EQ, SE, and crossfade etc.)

My question is on the MIO console and what faders I should use to lower volume.

I have the general setup with DAW 1/2 multed to master fader. I also have heard you want to hit the converters at around -6db. Now my DAW output is already around 0db when set at 0 on the fader and just getting straight iTunes playback (not sure if this is what I should be wanting or not)

The best sound, to my ears, is setting the DAW return to 0 and lowering the master fader to -6db or whatever the source requires. If I lower the DAW return to -6db and set the master fader to 0 I get very slight warming overtones and harmonic fuzz that is unfavorable. At the same time I do not want to be overloading the converters. Anyone with a iTunes/ ULN-2 setup to show me the way? Thanks.

 

[davidR]

Have you tried using the volume knob?

 

[der_bothaus]

Thanks. That was very unhelpful.

 

[davidR]

I thought there may have been a language barrier and I wasn't trying to be unhelpful or sarcastic, so I apologize. I know for many people the thought of digital volume added into the mix of physical volume control can be quite confusing. I honestly was wondering if you thought you were required to use the digital volume in the software rather than the knob up front. If the DAW return at -6dB sounds best to your ears by all means go that route. Hopefully owners of the Metric Halo converters can give you exact instructions on what is technically ideal. I'm not personally familiar with the MIO Console software you are using but I am trying to help.

 

[latitude94941]

Where did you hear that it was best to attenuate by -6db? Is this figure specific to the ULN-2?

 

I just checked the settings on my Apogee Duet and saw that I'm running the master out at -10 db (I have the mixer set to 0 db). I arrived at this setting because it allows me to be in the "sweet spot" of the analogue volume control on my integrated amp. If you're using a preamplifier or integrated in your system, you may want to take the same approach (attenuate the output on the DAC until it best matches the input on your preamp).

 

My understanding (as a lay person) is that when playing back 16 bit files on a 24 bit dac, you can attenuate the output by -48 db before you start losing "real bits" since the 8 least significant bits of the signal have been padded with 0s. When playing back 24 bit files you would probably want to output at 0 db so as not to lose information.

 

If someone out there has better knowledge on these issues, please set me straight.

 

[Bob Stern]

In MIO Console, you don't need to use the Mixer at all. You can delete all the faders from the mixer! Instead, configure the Monitor Controller using these steps:

 

MIO Console > Window menu > Show Monitor Control Window.

 

In the Monitor Control window, click the bottom center button "Configure".

 

The upper and lower halves of the window configure the input and output.

 

To configure the input, click the upper + button, give it an arbitrary name, click OK. To the right of Left, click Unassigned, then select DAW1. To the right of Right, click Unassigned, then select DAW2.

 

To configure the output, click the lower + button, give it an arbitrary name, click OK. To the right of Left, click Unassigned, then select Analog1. In the level column, select Monitor. To the right of Right, click Unassigned, then select Analog2. In the level column, select Monitor.

 

Click OK in the lower right corner of the Monitor Control window.

 

[losingmyreligion]

 

Great advice from Bob.

 

Also insure that the switch on back panel near analog outputs is set to -10 (which is the "in" position), if you've not already done so. This is the 'consumer' setting. +4 is the "pro" setting and will likely be too hot for your downstream gear.

 

 

 

[der_bothaus]

Thanks everyone for your comments. My original intent was focused solely on the best DA conversion level. Nothing about my setup really requires worry about analogue stages or physical pots on the unit. I do use those but don't really care if there is any degradation of sound because they are too handy. I do not use any outboard gear at this time. The ULN-2 is it, either to my monitors or Beyer cans direct out of the phones jack.

The monitor controller was a good idea but will not work in my case as I already have it setup that way and I never use it because it does not appear to be able to change the levels that hit the DA converters. Plus I am a musician first and foremost so having some inputs available without re-configuring is nice (even though it is so easy to save out templates). The DA levels will still peak in the RED with hot material even though you can adjust the listening volume. I want to keep the master levels around -6db regardless of source to minimize distortion.

So yeah, levels in the MIO console and how hot the DAW returns should be.

DAW 1/2 return: the fader does not change the return level displayed when lowered. The Master Fader does. Would the master fader be the only level control to the DA converters because I can't seem to drop the level of the other DAW returns? Please see my pic as it may be easier to explain visually. In a nutshell, do I need to worry at all about the DAW return level clipping and which fader sets the best level for the DA converters?

 

DavidR: No offense taken. It is hard to tell intent through the forums.

It does appear that I get good sound with my settings now so maybe I should leave it at that and stop obsessing.

 

[f1eng]

When using your ULN-2 as a DAC decoding an existing iTunes rip you are stuck with the digital levels as recorded on the original mix. If it is originally mixes compressed and hard into the limiters it is already a poor recording IMO and no digital offset before the convertor will resurrect it.

Very many recent mixes are like this unfortunately. On my MIO2 the red leds show a lot on commercial recordings played via iTunes.

 

An engineer responsible for mixing both audio and video sound recently wrote on the MIO discussion list that he mixes music only recordings compressed and limited since "most music is listened to in a car or on the move with an iPod". He left the full dynamics and generally did not limit hard for video soundtracks since " video is watched in a quiet environment".

If his POV is common amongst mixing engineers it is not surprising so many modern mixes are such poor quality.

:-(

 

[der_bothaus]

Thanks Frank. That context helps.

I thought there had to be a reason why it wasn't being discussed in too much detail here os elsewhere. It doesn't matter. As long as I keep the outputs from peaking, any change I make will not degrade or improve the already degraded (compressed) music.

I do hear a slight difference whether the Mac return is set at 0db or not so I'll just do what sounds best to me.

80% of my available library is still in the 192-320kHz AAC range and it all pretty much sounds terrible now. I've got to start re-ripping. Should I use iTunes or are there any others that offer better quality from CD source? Who should i give compression duties to? I appreciate the sharing everyone.

 

[f1eng]

I use iTunes myself. For my iPod I rip Apple Lossless and for my music room AIF. I have set the "use error correction when reading audio CDs" mode under import settings. I actually find listening to all the different possibilities a royal PITA so I just listen to the music unless something seems wrong.

 

[der_bothaus]

Thanks again everyone.