T+A DAC 200

[jrsub]

Regarding the DAC 200 volume control.  Does anyone know if there is any bit truncation when using reduced variable volume levels to the XLR/RCA ouputs? 

[jrsub]

Thank you for the response StreamFidelity.   After I wrote my question here I did in fact get in touch with T+A and they responded this morning also stating that it is a analog volume control and that with the circuit used there is no loss of dynamics or data.   Good to hear.

[jrsub]

I purchased the T+A DAC 200 and should get it in a few weeks.    Does anyone know if using a USB reclocker such as the Wyred 4 Sound Recovery makes any sense to use with the DAC 200?  I currently use one on my Wyred DAC ,but not sure it is needed with the DAC200.

[jrsub]

Good info Miska, thanks.  I'll check out the Intona.

[jrsub]

I am having an issue with my T+A DAC 200 where intermittently the left channel volume is suddenly reduced resulting in the center image shifting to the right and staying there.  I use the DAC 200  with an Aurender N200 music server and run the DAC 200 in variable mode to my  Audio Reseach LS28SE preamp.  

 

I use variable mode at -22 on the DAC 200 otherwise the high gain on my preamp limits my volume range.  When the channel problem occurs  I can only resolve the issue by physically unplugging the DAC 200 unit,  or switching the DAC 200 from variable to fixed output mode.  Power cycling any of the other components or even the DAC200 using the front power button when the problem is happening does not resolve the issue.   I can run the system for a day or two without the issue and then all of a sudden the problem occurs.

 

I spoke with my dealer and they are thinking that the DAC 200 should only be used in fixed output mode when using an external  preamp.     I  find that strange as it seems like using variable volume control is a common DAC feature for the very reason I use it.    However,  maybe that is how the T+A unit is designed and I am in fact using it in a different way than intended. 

 

Is anybody else using the DAC 200 in variable output mode to an external preamp successfully?

 

Thoughts?

[jrsub]

Yep, I sent T+A support a note.  I find it difficult to believe the DAC 200 would care or know if it is sending a signal to an amp versus a preamp.

[jrsub]

Thanks OE333 I will test changing the DAC 200 volume while in variable mode the next time the issue occurs. 

 

What is also of note is that the other day  I decided  to test if using a USB reclocker I had on hand would benefit the DAC 200 sound quality.   I turned the DAC 200 off on the front panel, pulled the USB cord from the DAC  and re-inserted the USB cable with the reclocker.  Interestingly, I  had now inadvertently created the  exact same problem with the left channel losing some volume shifting the soundstage to the right while in variable mode.   I put back in just the original USB cable without the reclocker and  the problem was still there.  The only way I could resolve the issue was to physically unplug the DAC 200 from the power source.    I could recreate the channel issue about 50% of the time by  pulling the USB cable while the unit was plugged into the power source, but turned off on the front panel.   

 

Now after reading your response, I wanted to force the issue to occur and try your volume change suggestion.  However,   today I couldn't recreate the problem after a couple of tries.    So I guess I'll have to wait for the problem to occur naturally.  The issue  has occurred in the past within 2.5 hours after powering the unit on, or  it could run for 2 days without the issue occurring.  So it may take some time to test your suggestion.

[jrsub]

6 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

This reminds me of a strange issue I had with a DAC. Flipping a light switch caused an audio dropout, only when my house is really dry in the winter. 

That thought actually crossed my mind as I am also in Minnesota and it has been quite dry.  

 

[jrsub]

7 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Ah no way. 
 

I was measuring my room two weeks ago. I touched the microphone and got an electrostatic shock. My mic preamp rebooted. 
 

Who knew Minnesota was the electronics Winter proving ground 🙂

lol -running my humidifier now!

[jrsub]

I was able to test OE333's suggestion today to drop the volume as low as it will go on the DAC 200 while in variable when the channel imbalance issue is occurring.  I dropped the volume to the lowest level and ran it back up and the issue was still there.  I tried again and the issue was still there.  I switched to fixed mode and then back to variable the problem was still there. Now back in variable mode, I ran  the volume to lowest level and back up and the problem went away - weird.

 

What preceded the issue today was that I accidentally shut off the DAC 200  while music was still playing from my Aurender N200.    I mentioned previously that I could occasionally force the issue by unplugging the USB cable while the DAC 200 was off but plugged into power.  Today's issue and prior issues  makes me think the problem is some synch issue between the Aurender and the DAC 200 when the USB signal is disrupted.   I still can't explain why I could be listening to the system for hours and then have the problem suddenly occur.  Anyhow,  I powered down the DAC 200, unplugged it, powered it back up  and am going to just run it in variable without fiddling with anything for a few days and see if the problem occurs. 

[jrsub]

On 12/11/2022 at 4:19 PM, Miska said:

I would recommend to try Intona USB isolator...

I ordered the Intona Super Speed 3.0/2.0 version.    I will see if it benefits the DAC 200.  I tried the Wyred Recovery and didn't really care for how it changed the sound.  It made the DAC 200 sound fuller but not in a good way.  I seemed to lose some of the texture in stringed instruments.

[jrsub]

25 minutes ago, OE333 said:

 

This points to the volume control as cause for the problem.

 

Would it be possible to run the DAC in Fixed Mode for a couple of days to see if the problem also occurs in fixed mode ?

If the problem does NOT occur in fixed mode,  it would mean that we can be pretty sure that the cause of the issue is the volume control.

 

Yes, I will run it in fixed mode and see if the problem occurs.   When the issue occurred in the past, if I switch to fixed mode output while the issue was happening the problem would disappear until I switched back to variable mode.    

[jrsub]

57 minutes ago, jonniema said:

 

I would certainly be very interested in such update method as i use a pc for upsampling and streaming.

 

Me too! 

[jrsub]

1 hour ago, jrsub said:

Me too! 

Too early in the morning,  let me clarify.  I meant that I would like to see the PC FW update feature.  I do not use a PC to upsample or stream.

[jrsub]

On 12/13/2022 at 3:29 AM, jrsub said:

Yes, I will run it in fixed mode and see if the problem occurs.   When the issue occurred in the past, if I switch to fixed mode output while the issue was happening the problem would disappear until I switched back to variable mode.    

 

On 12/13/2022 at 2:48 AM, OE333 said:

 

This points to the volume control as cause for the problem.

 

Would it be possible to run the DAC in Fixed Mode for a couple of days to see if the problem also occurs in fixed mode ?

If the problem does NOT occur in fixed mode,  it would mean that we can be pretty sure that the cause of the issue is the volume control.

 

I ran the DAC 200 for 48 hours straight while in fixed output mode while actively  listening for about 10 of those hours.  No issue occurred.   Even though it appears that the volume control may have a problem from the tests we ran,  I also still wonder if the volume control issue could  be a result of some disruption with the USB signal.      I  noticed this comment in the manual:

 

 I mentioned that I once accidentally turned off the DAC 200 while it was still being fed music which resulted in the same problem with the left channel volume as when the problem appeared while I was actively listening.  This action is exactly what is warned about in the manual.   

 

So what I wonder is that when I had the problem initially where it would play okay for a long period of time and then lose volume in the left channel,  could this simply have been a delayed manifestation of me accidentally disrupting the USB connection or powering off the unit while I was first installing the unit?   I am now going to continue running the unit  in variable mode for a few days to see if the issue occurs knowing that I have not done any action described in the manual warning about the USB connection. 

 

OEM333,  I  did forward my issue description to my dealer who then contacted T+A to see how they want to handle the issue.   Not sure how you are aligned with the support team but you may hear from them.   I appreciate your help with my issue.

 

[jrsub]

5 hours ago, OE333 said:

 

The warning in the manual to not disconnect the USB during operation was put into the manual because the disconnection of the USB link in some cases could crash the player software on the PC. There are some players that even need a re-boot of the PC to recover from an interruption of the USB connection.

 

Disconnecting the USB connection has absolutely no impact on the DAC200 - the DAC will just notice the interrupted USB connection and it will then mute the output signal. After re-inserting the USB cable, and restarting the player software on the PC everything should be back to normal operation. So don't worry about the DAC - disconnecting the USB cable can not cause any harm.

 

Regarding the volume issue: All your observations point to the volume control as the root of the evil.

I will discuss this matter with my former colleagues from the T+A service dept. and give them a few hints.

 

Regards,

Lothar

 

 

Thanks Lothar.  Good to know that I wasn't accidentally causing the issue.   I have not had any issues with my music server (Aurender N200) crashing or having any other issues.  

[jrsub]

19 minutes ago, OE333 said:

There is good news about the PC based firmware update for the DAC200.

T+A is willing to support this and they will offer the required USB -> E2Link  programming adaptor through the T+A webshop.

 

I will give an update on this topic as soon as all details are clear.

Excellent news.   Thanks!

[jrsub]

With my Aurender music server initiating playback does not turn on the DAC 200.    I did not see anything in the user manual about a signal sensing power on feature.

[jrsub]

32 minutes ago, Allan F said:

I have to comment on T+A's excellent customer service. After writing to them and receiving a reply describing the differences between Windows USB driver versions 5.30.0 and 5.40.0, I subsequently received another email offering a link to download and test new version 5.50.0, which I am now using.

Yes, they definitely have excellent customer service.    My other gear is Audio Research and McIntosh who also have excellent customer service and  T+A is equal to or better than them.  

[jrsub]

Congratulations to T+A on the excellent review of the T+A 200 series in the February 2023 Absolute Sound.    The reviewer stated, "Each individual component is an unqualified success - with top flight sound and undeniable musicality".   He said it sounded nearly indistinguishable to a CH integrated that costs more than twice the T+A series 200 stack.  I couldn't find a link to the review so if anyone finds one please post.

[jrsub]

Has anybody experimented with vibration/isolation devices on the DAC 200?  I use Isoacoustics Orea footers on my tube preamp with good results, but not sure if it would be beneficial for this DAC.

[jrsub]

4 hours ago, Mist1Fu said:

Hello everyone,

I’m a new member, but have been reading and following this topic about the DAC-200 and many other posts in the forums. I own a DAC-200 as well and I enjoy very much the quality in all aspects of this device. I wanted to ask OE333 about a change I have noticed since updating the firmware a day ago; the relay doesn’t click anymore when changing resolution of music files, has this changed since the latest firmwares? When I bought the DAC it was on Ver.1.11 and up until the update yesterday the relay clicked for any single track or file with different resolutions, but I just noticed when I started listening to music that it doesn’t click at all but still shows the change in resolution.

Thanks in advance to any reply.

My DAC 200 has always only had the solenoid click when switching between PCM and DSD tracks.  Within PCM or DSD a resolution change has no click.  Also, how did you do the firmware upgrade?

[jrsub]

4 hours ago, Nkam said:

 

also , if I may.  Why did you choose that much older DAC chip over the newer ones?  
Don’t the newer ones offer any advantages in technology for a ‘ better sound’

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can assure you that the DAC 200 is better sounding than my last DAC which used a newer ESS9038PRO chip.   Design/implementation engineering trumps the actual chip used in my experience. 

[jrsub]

A couple of questions regarding the use of the DAC 200 HDMI inputs. 

 

I have connected my Sony Blu-ray player (UDB-X700) to the HDMI inputs on the DAC 200 and use the DSD output option on the Sony player.    When I play an SACD disk  the DAC  200 display shows "DSD 64" and I get sound.  The sound quality would be very good except there is a very noticeable background  static.   Is this a valid configuration for the  DAC 200 as far as playing SACD disks?  If so what could be causing the background static?  

 

And second, when using the DAC 200 to play a Blu-ray movie through the HDMI inputs I cannot get a 2 channel down mix.     I have the Sony player set to PCM output  and have chosen stereo as the down mix option.   However, when I play a movie the DAC 200 displays "PCM Multi CH".  It basically is playing sound for just the left and right  channels and I have no center image vocals - which makes sense.    What I can't figure out is that I had another DAC 200 prior to this one where I had no problem playing movies and getting great 2 channel sound through the HDMI input.   It just seemed to work without doing anything special.  The only thing I can think of is if the movies I played on the first DAC 200 had a  2 channel  audio track option whereas the movies I am having trouble with now don't.   But, I don't recall ever to have to select the 2 channel option to get it to work if that was the case.   Can the DAC 200 only play a Blu-Ray movie if the movie has  2 channel audio as an audio option?   

 

Any insight 2 these questions would be appreciated. 

 

[jrsub]

1 hour ago, OE333 said:

Hi @jrsub,

yes your setup for DSD should work fine. Just for a test I would recommend to disconnect all other sources, just have the Sony player connected and try to play a SACD. If the static noise is gone, connect one source device after the other and find out when the static noise begins.

If you have noise with only tne Sony connected, it might be best to contact the T+A sevice dept ([email protected]).

 

Multichannel:

Obviously the Sony player outputs a multichannel audio stream on its HDMI out, not a 2-channel downmix. Such a multichannel stream can not be decoded and downmixed by the DAC as it only accepts 2-channel stereo streams. Try to setup the HDMI output of your player to output a 2-ch. downmix, then it should work.

If this is not possible, you could perhaps use the S/P-DIF output of the player - this should normally be capable to output a 2-ch. stereo stream.

 

Glad to know that playing SACDs should work.  The Sony is my only source besides the DAC 200, but I did have a S/P-DIF connection from the Sony player to the DAC 200 since I was having trouble with getting a two channel down mix using HDMI.   I will try disconnecting the S/P-DIF and using a different HDMI cable.   Also, I will try some different power options. 

 

I must  not be seeing the option on the Sony to output a two channel only stream.   Although I have the down mix set to stereo on the player,  the DAC 200 still is receiving a multi channel signal - the DAC 200 display tells me so.   More experimenting is required.   

 

The S/P-DIF connection works fine for playing movies in two channel and is definitely an option if I can't get the HDMI connection sorted out.

 

I appreciate the help.