Article: At Long Last! Listen To Your (Physical) SACDs Through an Outboard DAC

[jxo]

On 1/10/2021 at 11:02 AM, gmgraves said:

The Oppo UDP-205 as a stand-alone SACD player is mediocre at best, but it does seem to be an exemplary transport for streaming DSD data to an outboard DAC. I’ve tried several Sony Blu-Ray players and an Oppo 105, and the UDP-205 sounds superior playing SACDs through the I2S converter to the Denafrips Pontus via HDMI with the Oppo 105 as a close second.

Great thread, thanks.  Also have hundreds of SACDs and have been procrastinating on the ripping project.  My OPPO bluray died and was going to replace it with a Panasonic DP-UB820 (frequently compared to the Oppos).   The Panny has an audio only hdmi output (like many of the Sonys) but unlike the Sonys you may have tried it is not designated as an SACD player. 

 

Stupid question, does a blu ray player need to have SACD playback designation in order to be an SACD digital transport with these Chinese adapters??

[jxo]

9 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

If it can't play SACDs, you cannot expect that it will rip them.

I have a couple of flimsy Sony BX510s for ripping and I can see why these may not be the most well made transport devices.   I assume bits are bits but I was asking whether using a bluray player for digital transport to a DAC would be different for any reason (as distinguished from a Sony player for ripping purposes).  I assume a solid blu ray player with a dedicated audio hdmi output would be unable to read an SACD (unless its a Sony).   Just checking.    Btw, those cheap Sonys regularly used for ripping are not feature designated as SACD players.

[jxo]

8 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

I do not know what it means to be " not feature designated" nor does it matter.  If the device will not play SACDs, it cannot rip SACDs.  If it can play SACDs, it may be able to rip SACDs.   Does your question go beyond that?

nope, got it.  thanks.

[jxo]

On 1/10/2021 at 11:02 AM, gmgraves said:

The Oppo UDP-205 as a stand-alone SACD player is mediocre at best, but it does seem to be an exemplary transport for streaming DSD data to an outboard DAC. I’ve tried several Sony Blu-Ray players and an Oppo 105, and the UDP-205 sounds superior playing SACDs through the I2S converter to the Denafrips Pontus via HDMI with the Oppo 105 as a close second.

Am interested in identifying new players that would serve well as an SACD digital transports for this type of setup.   Did you compare the Oppos with the cheap Sonys (I have several lined up for ripping and they are flimsy at best)?   Curious whether a new Sony ES would perform better.   I am not seeing too many new players with HDMI outputs and SACD capability other than the Sonys.

[jxo]

22 hours ago, Mogulman said:

...  I had to E mail the E Bay seller to get the I2S pinout. On the D90 you have to reverse the Data...."

Mogulman:  can you elaborate on what was needed to get I2S from the breakout box to, and working with, your DAC90?

[jxo]

On 2/5/2021 at 11:41 AM, gmgraves said:

“My ad hoc search yielded a series of circuit boards and complete units that took an HDMI output from video sources and output I2S over HDMI as well as coaxial and optical SPDIF!“

 

George, apologies if you addressed this elsewhere.  Does the Chinese box output DSD over the coax and/or optical outputs?   Have you tried either to your D’frips DAC?  I just don’t know I2S well enough and whether the only SACD playback option from this Chinese box will be over the hdmi output.   I have one of these boxes coming in a few days and will try with an Oppo 95 and a few older DACs lying around.  The GeerFab people tell me the Oppo 95 works well with their DBOB converter.

[jxo]

12 hours ago, hgaggioni said:

It was not a thorough investigation, but I tried a number of CDs and SCADs and kept switching between the three connection types. I could not detect any difference listening with speakers. I did not tried listening with headphones (our of the Pontus though an external headphone amp) to do a closer examination.

This may have been referenced previously, but on point:

https://www.audio “science” review/forum/index.php?threads/study-is-i²s-interface-better-for-dacs-than-s-pdif-or-usb.7105/

[jxo]

On 2/9/2021 at 9:14 AM, Bitsnsounds said:

This box worked for me, I use a Sony Bluray and a Audiolab M-Dac+ and can now hear full fat SACD audio. Initially the box didn't seem to work until I plugged in a 5v Power supply, and then it kicked  in. I am so happy, thanks for the tip.

can you post a link to the 5v PS you used?   thanks much.

[jxo]

On 2/8/2021 at 11:47 PM, gmgraves said:

After your last post, I tried both optical and coax connections from the I2S “box“. I could get my Pontus to recognize neither one of them. It simply did not work. I’m beginning to wonder if there aren’t differences between these boxes bought through different vendors (???!!!).

Some of the listings for these boxes refer to Board B versions implying an update.  Thanks for all your work on this George.

[jxo]

On 2/12/2021 at 8:56 AM, hgaggioni said:

... by using the Chinese box (which is at the center of these postings) one can convert this DSD over HDMI to DSD over HDMI-IIS. As said in earlier posts, the HDMI-IIS can have several variants (not standardized) hence the DAC needs to have a way to reconfigure its input streams (over the HDMI-IIS connector) to match the incoming bitstreams. 

All this work is much appreciated.   I am still unclear whether one MUST use an I2S (IIS) capable DAC in order to utilize the ChiFi converter box to get the best SACD playback SQ.   @hgaggioni reported that he was able to send DSD signals to his Pontus over coax, optical and HDMI/I2s.   Is DSD over coax and optical still using an I2S protocol necessitating the use of an I2S DAC?   If that is non-sensical, apologies.  The only necessary I2S pieces of this data flow maybe the output from the player over hdmi and the input of the converter box and the hdmi output of the converter box.   If so, this box would work similar to the DBOB with the additional digital output option of HDMI (I2S?).   DBOB site says: 

"External DAC must accept DSD via the DoP protocol [DSD over PCM] through S/PDIF Coax (preferable) or Toslink inputs."  I.E., I2S DACs are not necessary.

 

Is the converter box sending DSD via different protocols depending on the output option used?  DoP via coax and optical and DSD via another protocol (some references out there to "raw" DSD), I2S or otherwise, on the HDMI output?  If they are indeed different, is one better or preferred?   As GeerFab "prefers" coax?

I just want to know which DACs to start putting on the short list to purchase-- in addition to the Pontus.   If I2S is strictly needed, the list gets very short.

[jxo]

14 hours ago, hgaggioni said:

...I think Pontus does not support DoP. 

I assume, therefore, that the box is sending DSD raw over all outputs ...

Hence, the decision is not for a DAC that supports (or not IIS) but for a DAC that supports DSD raw across all types of interfaces (such as the Denafrips DACs for example).

I apologize if I am clouding the topic even more...:(

Hugo  

Hugo:  thanks much.  To the contrary, clouds are lifting.  You confirmed some of my instincts (as technically un-based as they are).  It would also imply that the ChiFi box is outputting differently from the GeerFab DBOB.  Important to get clarity here otherwise folks may be making some expensive mistakes in choosing equipment to solve this SACD playback conundrum.    I have some older DACs that support various DSD formats; curious which ones will work and those that won't with the mystery Chinese puzzle box that came last week.   But I am definitely looking at these Denafrips DACs based on the trusted feedback here.   thanks again,

Jim

[jxo]

In case anyone is interested for comparison sake.   Design detail of the D.BOB:

 

"The D.BOB design is centered around two chips made by Lattice Semiconductor. The Sil9533 Port Processor is the main HDMI decoder chip, which extracts PCM audio data from the HDMI datastream and sends it out via S/PDIF [not HDMI or USB]. The HDMI pass-through functions are also supported by this chip. But, the Sil9533 does not support DSD.  [Instead,] the DSD datastream is extracted from HDMI, and encoded as DoP, by a Lattice LCMX02-1200HC Field Programmable Gate Array (FPGA)."

[jxo]

2 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

I am not sure that I would word this the way it is.  The Sil9533 does support DSD but not via I2S.  Its DSD output mode is an alternative to the I2S output mode.

 

You should know!   I recall a review of this D.BOB box a few months back in my favorite mag.    thanks much

[jxo]

A new Pontus DAC arrived several days ago as did one of those I2S converter boxes off EBay.  Dusted off my old Oppo 95.   Ran the second hdmi out to the converter then from there to the I2S input of the Pontus.  Bingo, it worked.  Cold and without any break in at all, sounds very nice.   Will be comparing it in more depth to my old ModWright Sony SACD player (totally tricked out by Dan) but on its third laser.   

 

Thanks George, this is a fabulous development.  Now I will have to build out the server and run Roon to the Pontus as well.