How much difference does it make?

[sandyk]

3 minutes ago, SJK said:

How does mechanical feedback to a softly sprung turntable relate to an electronic processor?  I was under the impression that jitter was a timing function, and one dealt with by making sure the only clock used was the one specific to the playback device.

 

Turntables don’t experience wow - wow and flutter was a tape thing related to poor tape speed control.  

 

Xtal oscillator stability is also affected by vibration, which is why some DACs and media players go to a great deal of trouble to control case resonances etc. If you have a decent media player such as an Oppo, try listening to it both in a typical cabinet, and sitting on a carpeted floor. My Oppo 103 has added 3M 2552 self adhesive anti vibration tape inside the cover and other strategic locations including under the drive mechanism for this reason. It also sounds best in the cabinet when sitting on a piece of 10mm thick car sound reducing material with Butyl.

Yes, Turntables can experience WOW, due to variations in turntable speed and even older slipping drive belts.

[sandyk]

15 minutes ago, fas42 said:

The most vociferous here decrying what is possible are trapped by their belief in the Pyramid of Authority - the persons or organisations at the top are the keepers of the Greatest Truths, and should be deferred to - until someone comes along and kicks the oranges crates that the former have been standing on out from under them -

 

 

That's not always easy to do though, is it ?

[sandyk]

28 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

Btw, I wouldn't throw in credentials (as you just did). Seems to weaken.

Thanks for a good post.

Peter

 If it's not a" trade" secret , what is your special sauce for reducing the unwanted effects of vibration, which can even affect certain types of capacitors ? I have found the addition of the expensive 3M 2552 self adhesive anti vibration aluminium tape to be of benefit in the metalwork of a cabinet at certain locations. It reportedly converts vibration to heat. (this tape came originally from the 3M Space and Aeronautical Division and I was given a sample by a C.S.I.R.O. scientist from Queensland.)  Quite a few members of a U.K. based Audio forum found this tape quite beneficial when some was attached to al.fe's LG GGW H20L BR writer

 

I wouldn't go as far as claiming such a high  % improvement though.

 

Alex

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, STC said:

I thought of converting some of Linn's classical stereo sound to 4.0 (or even 5.0) format so that it could be played in a standard 5.1 system to show this point but looking at the response in other thread …….

 

 If you search UseNet you will find numerous examples of music that has been converted to multi channel in .dts format.

[sandyk]

The attached link may be of interest.

 I would suggest however, in order to make the article easier to read, to highlight the whole of the article as if you are saving it.

 As per the conclusion at the end, In my case, my Class A Preamp is however way higher in quality than a typical preamp in the areas of S/N, frequency response, channel separation and distortion.

Neither do many DACs perform too well with 30dB or more of Digital attenuation which can  happen with many power amplifiers at a typical domestic listening level .

 

 

https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/features-menu/general-interest-interviews-menu/311-what-s-wrong-with-digital-volume-controls

[sandyk]

46 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

Yes, nice article. That is, good for some inside on what to actually consider. But it omits two major elements which may make you judge quite different than what the gist of the article is (although it nicely lets you decide for yourself).

 

Later ...

 

PS: At least I should have left in the one but last sentence in my previous post like this:

you will come to the conclusion that all was in vain because of the analog volume control you applied in aftermath, although a digital volume may even be more complicated to execute well.

But it didn't end well in that post, so I took that out again.

 

 Peter

 I have no doubt that the way you implement the analogue output and your Digital attenuation is well above average, but to compare your DAC with the majority of affordable offerings is perhaps a wee bit unfair ? 

 BTW, I use a DACT2 attenuator in my Preamp and HA  , which is not only very low noise , but has a bandwidth to 50MHz.

Alex

58 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

I have to ask...  Do you guys actually enjoy listening to music?

 

 I have plenty of time on my hands to do both.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

No answer needed, but you really should stop this.

Peter

 You appear to be giving most affordable DACs far more credit for their performance than they deserve, when you mercilessly dismiss a high quality Preamp as possibly being competitive with the digital attenuation and analogue drive capabilities found in  many  commercial DAC offerings. I am by far from the only member to report that a high quality Analogue preamp can make many commercial DACs sound better than when using digital attenuation of perhaps as much as 30dB or more at typical domestic listening levels.

I base this around listening sessions using high quality preamps vs. well regarded DACs such as the Bricasti M1 using digital attenuation., and other well respected DACs built to a highly competitive price.

 

BTW, I find very little to disagree with in the last 2 paragraphs in  your post before your most recent post.

 

I will have a closer look at your most recent post later on, as it is a much wider subject deserving of a much closer examination

 We seem to be going backwards in many areas in the pursuit of convenience and variety of content.

Alex

 

 

[sandyk]

53 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

And indeed, the owner of the pre-amp of the screenshots above, is quite satisfied with the sound. And he knows the results. No anti-placebo there.

 

So you could be right.

Peter

 It's not so cut and dried. Like many other members I do not believe that measurements can tell the whole story .

An amplifier can have <.0006% distortion from 20Hz to >20KHz , be >115dB S/N unweighted with decent channel separation too, and Bandwidth of >150KHz, but power the front end with a very low noise PSU, build it as dual mono, and power it from an external metal rack case using ,individual transformers for both channels,  perhaps with the main voltage regulation there too, and it can sound way better again.

 What are we missing in the measurements area that aren't revealing the reasons why ?

Quote

Maybe the eye opener is that a digital volume can normally only exist in software (this includes an FPGA or DSP chip if you want)

I think that you already pretty well know my feelings about typical S/W implementation (even the Digital PSU area) and how it can degrade performance.

 

Alex

 

P.S.

. A DIY Audio member nicknamed my 15W Class A amplifier " The Holo Amp"  as in Holographic.