GentooPlayer

[Wladimir]

Thanks for raising awareness that even LAN & DC cables matter (and actually a lot). For that reason, I'm building my own LAN cables with huge success, surpassing other commercial LAN cables for audio in the $300-500 range, as I've tested or bought many of such.

All you need is a proper Cat7A-8 solid core cable (preferably AWG22, but if you need to bend the cable, then stick with AWG23) with good shielding and tools for attaching Logilink mp0048 plugs. In my experience, they're much better sounding (especially neutral!) than the expensive "field" plugs with the long traces in PCB's and phosphor bronze contacts. The trick is to be as precise as possible with the actual tolerances when building this cable. I also use carbon outer sheath as additional shielding. 

In use with the RPI, I also recommend cutting the shield (breaking continuity) to the target.

[Wladimir]

1 hour ago, aqs_ said:

Such cables put a lot of strain on the sound and it often becomes dry and sterile.

That dryness and sterility you're describing, I'm attributing exactly to those field plugs. Perhaps in conjunction with these cables it's even worse, but the culprit are IMO the plugs themselves, not the cable. That's why I'm recommending the straight cable-crimpled plugs without all that additional nonsense around it. Have you tried those?

In my experiments, what difference does a solid core AWG23-22 make is a more powerful, cleaner sound. Better definition / clarity all around. Obviously, not all are built the same, my favourite so far is Voka X-LAN 1500, but it's excessively rigid and pre-coiled to make any meaningful handling possible, so I'm looking for other alternatives with AWG22.
I might try to add those ferrites to hear what's it going to contribute.

[Wladimir]

On 2/5/2024 at 3:46 AM, ekpln said:

Hello everyone, 

 

I've been testing Gentooplayer + Diretta for a moment. I haven't heard such an articulate sound from my speakers before, even with Deezer source. My system is like this:

 

Diretta Host:

• Highly optimized Windows 10 NUC.
• Native Deezer app for streaming. --> VB-Cable Hifi Bridge -->Diretta ASIO
• Jriver for local files -->  Diretta ASIO

Diretta Target:

• Gentooplayer on x86 NUC
• Connected to Diretta Host with an ethernet cable

I need to find an answer to an important question at the point of decision-making.

 

I'm having trouble switching between Deezer and Jriver. For example, even though I stopped listening to music on Deezer, data still continues to flow from VB Bridge to Diretta Target. The music on Jriver is not playing because (probably) Diretta Target is still busy with the data coming from VB Bridge. 

Even if I want to use it with jriver when I turn on the computer, before playing with Deezer, it doesn't work. Because at startup, vb-audio ASIO is started as connected to Diretta target.

 

A possible solution comes to my mind. Transferring all data to HQP in the windows environment and sending it to the renderer via HQP with NAA or Diretta ASIO. Like this:

 

Jriver/Deezer --> VB Audio ASIO --> HQP --> NAA or Diretta ASIO --> Gentooplayer target

 

Bu in this scenario, the audio coming from jriver needs to be downscaled before going into vb-audio ASIO.

 

Another solution may be using upnp with Deezer and sending data to Upmpdcli on the gentooplayer. But I'm not sure if I can connect gentooplayer, because it has not an internet connection and no ipv4 address.

 

Can you think of another solution? 

 

In addition to this,Would getting a license for Diretta target be a solution to this problem? And I also read that the diretta target price decreased to 25 dollars after the discount. Now it looks like 100 dollars. Is there still a way to get it for $25?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Hi, 

 

in tweaking the software side of streaming, what you should always aim for is the most direct stream possible. Every bridge or conversion usually alter the sound and could very well be detrimental, add latency or otherwise take resources.

I have one simple and efficient idea - get rid of Deezer and transfer yourself to Qobuz. That way, you don't have to stream through ASIO bridge, since Qobuz can output to ASIO driver directly. So when the playback of Qobuz stops, the stream stops as well and you can play from Jriver without touching anything else. And as a bonus, you can also enjoy gapless playback with Qobuz, which Deezer is unable to provide after years of unfulfilled promises...

 

[Wladimir]

  

On 2/5/2024 at 2:37 PM, aqs_ said:

I used the same Rj45 plugs with different LAN cables, in my case cat7 cables do not work in the final connection, as I wrote, the sound is strained and sterile. There is one exception from NAS to a CAT7 router, it works very well, but the final point from EtherRegen to RPI4 here is only good old copper

 

Hmm you might be right that the CAT7 cable put a lot of strain, just not on the "sound" or signal coming through that cable, but on the connector itself. And then through the resonances of the onboard RJ45 connector, the sound might appear it's sterile/edgy, but it's because of the resonances that this cable is transferring.
My latest prototype of LAN cable had imperfectly rotated plugs, so I needed to twist the cable (cat8.1 / solid 22AWG), which put unusual strain on the connector and got a little bit of what you're describing. So I tried to address the resonance of the connector and this issue is solved (to my own surprise I might add).

Also, have you cut the shield continuity to the endpoint with the Cat7 cable or not? IME, it's a necessity for RPI. I suppose that the 30y old cable probably doesn't have any shield and is relatively light, right?

 

On 2/14/2024 at 10:24 PM, Dandou said:

You were discussing Ethernet cables, so I have some feedback to post. 

I tested a dozen of different cables over the last year. And it's amazing what a difference an Ethernet cable can make. 

I recommend the Sablon Audio for the coherency of the sound stage. 

The best that I could try is the Final Touch Metis. With it, one has the impression that the musicians are playing inside his listening room. 

 

Yes indeed, a massive difference. For me, the eye opener was getting the AQ Cinnamon some years ago. Here are some of the better cables I tried (along with the Sablon Audio you mentioned, AQ not here), others are gone or went straight to trash 😁 By my observations, the higher grade Cat (granted it's meticulously finished) gives me clearer / distinctively layered / more detailed sound, without sacrificing anything. All those measurements like attenuation, NEXT, FEXT, ACR, many others and shielding could really mean something, but I'm primarily listening, not measuring.

 

 

Now I'm testing some more Cat8 / 22AWG cables, then onto some more types of shielding (I have ordered a sample of shielding, which costs 1800 eur for MOQ 😅 ) or other functional sleeving, resonance control tweaks and some types of the best regarded ferrites.
Once I'm done (in about 2-3 months hopefully), would anyone be interested in trying out what I consider the best according to my thorough research?

 

On 2/18/2024 at 1:51 PM, Ikyo said:

Hello , 

coming back to the Ethernet cables subject :

I’ve to say I was a bit sceptic to consider  a real improvement by using better quality Ethernet cables and connectors .

i made my own cables based on Sommer cable SC Mercator Cat 6 super flex 

connectors are Deleycon Mk3409

(impossible to use standard connectors as logylink MP0048 with such strong cable).

Classic ferrit tores 

The factual results :
restarting all the network and first listening : more details, more articulation, harshness, hard mediums, lack of bass, short stage ! 
positive think : this is a proof of the cable interaction in the system !!

I made the choice to let a chance to the cable to make me happy, then I let the system running alone during around 3-4 hours.

wahou !!! Amazing upgrade, the system is coming back to my welknown softy sound but with really more details, more instruments presences, voices are more natural, the stage still fitting the recordings.

incredible how this network cable/connector matter is interacting in the system.

The only recommandation I can give to not already well equipped people : regarding the low investment (on case of DIY process of course), make it, you will be surprised by the results.

 

I'm happy that you've made yourself a good sounding cable 👍 Just how did you come to conclusion that Logilink plugs won't fit your cable? I've fitted them onto the Cat8.1 / AWG22 cable from the same brand (Sommercable), so I find it hard to believe that it won't fit your Cat 6 / AWG23.

 

[Wladimir]

21 hours ago, Steviewunda said:

 

I would definitely be interested in trying different ethernet cables. I am currently using 6.1.73-GentooPlayer-RT-ULTRA-EUP100-rt22+ and Diretta via an Ian Canada streamer/DAC stack. A Mellanox 10Gb adapter in the Win11 PC connects to a 10Gb Microtik switch, which connects to a 1Gb TL-SG108PE switch, which connects to the Raspberry Pi in the stack. All cables are generic ethernet cables. The PC also has an unused Realtek 2.5Gb adapter. As things stand I cannot hear a difference between the DLNA Gentooplayer connection and the Diretta connection (both via JRiver). Both sound good, but if I can improve things..why not? What would be your recommendations regarding optimal configuration given a limited budget?

Hey Stevie,

yeah of course, let's try to find your bottleneck(s). Overall network performance might be hindered by several factors, like power or resonance control, sometimes even neglecting a proper cable management can be seriously detrimental, but you seem to have at least some decent hardware to work with. Please record a short video overview of how your digital chain looks like (starting from modem or whatever in your case) and their corresponding power supplies and cabling, I'll take a look and suggest some easiest/least expensive steps to take.

And perhaps let's come over to PMs, because it seems like some guys are unhappy being "forced" to read others discussions about the thing we're here ultimately striving for.

[Wladimir]

23 hours ago, Ikyo said:

Hello Wladimir,

regarding your comments on Ethernet cables, It appear you are very experimented.

I agree with you, and cannot understand why I'l not able to use the MP0048 with the CAT6 sommer cable.

My point is about the sound restitution :

This latest week end, I spent more time than other days to deeper listen my system restitution, as, even I heard a quality jump with the new ethernet cables, I still noticed more mediums and highs than before. seem the system moved all the bandwidth to the highs.

it was specially noticeable on the females voices.

To confirm this, I decided to come back to the previous old (very old! ) ugly standard cat 5e cables.

All was obvious, the system came back to the proper bass/medium/highs location and less hisses on voices.

My question is about :

1 - Does the sommer cable cat6 mercator a good one our audio apps

2 - Does the "easy to plug" connectors good or not, compare to MP0048 or some equivalent.

 

I know many things subjective, but clear is the cable/connector influence. 

 

Do you have good recommandation, to restart on good basis.

Many thanks 

 

 

Hi Ikyo,

yes it has been many times confirmed by countless users that different cables sound differently and perhaps no-one REALLY knows why. I can present certain theories, but in the end it's only your ears that should be the judge, so if you don't like the sound of it, look elsewhere. But also remember to put the cable through at least 150 hrs playtime before judging, plugs might require even more break-in (can't tell, as I don't use those). 

My personal take on Sommer Cable (CAT8) after the testing is that I don't like its signature neither, I find that it favors the upper mids/highs (slightly). It also looks like they use some kind of cheaper copper alloy, which is very prevalent nowadays (left on the photo) than some hardcore pure copper (sadly that cable on the right is discontinued).
 

 

Regarding the plugs, I already expressed my opinion that those field plugs in my experience contribute to the sound signature you described quite considerably, for which I dumped them and started using these simple ones, with just the bare minimum material between cable conductors and RJ45 connectors.
And it's not just my invention, I found this interesting idea on another forum from a different user, who claimed he tried dozens of cables with different plugs and came to this conclusion. 

On the other hand it's also worth pointing out that building a cable with these plugs could be tricky and requires more precision to achieve the best results. Few tips I recommend to follow:

1. Maintain the shielding of the individual pairs as far as possible (up to the threading aid)

2. Ensure the minimum possible overhang of the sorted (unshielded) conductors (above the threading aid) - around 3,5mm

3. Maintain the twist of the pairs as much as possible

And lastly, you don't have to put the whole cable jacket into the plug housing, perhaps that's the barrier you encountered when building with these plugs. Just strip a little bit more of the cable jacket and you're fine.

We can continue more elaborate discussion about the cables and everything in the new thread by Auke later, in the meantime I'll silently continue my work on incorporating and testing new ideas and exotic materials, how to further improve my current design.

[Wladimir]

Rpi 3B Diretta Target - 6.7.6 EUP100 key takeaways: Energetic, soulful... brilliant. And yeah, explosive bass™

This will be a loooong night, ó mama 😁

[Wladimir]

On 10/17/2023 at 11:09 PM, Wladimir said:

 

I'll tell you my understanding of the kernel versions acronyms, a lot of "deciphering" went into it.

 

EUP - EUPhory guaranteed (improving sense of space)

100 - 100% transparent (blacker background)

NOR - normalizing tonality (no more harshness / edginess)

 

Ofc as always, YMMV.

I hope you'll enjoy it as much as I do 😁

Hey Stevie,

 

I did just that in a funny a few pages ago, but it was actually my serious conclusion after repeated listening tests (in my system anyway).

 

Note: According to admin, in non-RT kernels, "NOR" stands for NO-RCU now. So now EUP100 is previous EUP100NOR (as I understand it).

 

Also, you can tune the tonality with gpkernel parameters, I'm personally using 1,3,4.

[Wladimir]

Anybody else having problems seeing Diretta target after the latest update?

 

P.S. Never mind, even though my Diretta ASIO app doesn't list the target in the menu, it can still send the data to it. Weird.

[Wladimir]

On 3/24/2024 at 3:29 PM, guilders said:

then maybe offer a 15days reimbursement ?

This way, people can try the kernels, make comparison and within 15 days decide whether they want to keep it or get the money back and revert to standard kernel ?

You can think about it in some other way. If you buy the CLTO license, you directly support the developers and motivate them in doing the fantastic job with all the latest updates and impeccable support, which they're providing. I suspect that many of people here can spare €40 even for a marginal improvement, especially considering the long-term cost of the whole evolution of our systems.