wgb113 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Saw these in the record store today and was curious if anyone had heard them. "Double Fantasy" in particular caught my attention since it contains a second disc that's remixed to "John's Audio Mix" whatever that is. BTW, in case you were wondering, I picked up: Johnathan Rice - Further North Manic Street Preachers - Generation Terrorists Elvis Costello & The Imposters - Momofuku Laura Marling - I Speak Because I Can Bill Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Mac Mini->Roon + Tidal->KEF LS50W Link to comment
Lakefield Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Hi, i had the Signature Box from a friend and compared it with my MFSL and a few Japan-Versions. I can't tell you about "John's Audio Mix" because Double Fantasy was just one disc. I think only if you buy it separately you'll get a second disc. The sound of the new remasters are rubbish. The Beatles remasters were better by miles. I compared 'Mind Games' with the MFSL and Japan Version (Japan EMI TOCP- 70395) It sound like they recorded it from an old cassette. Especially the song 'Meat City'. There is no bass. It's not like it is a bit shy here, there is no frequency below 150Hz (guessed). The rest sounds thin with no definition, blurry. The hole Box sounds not as bad this song. But it's just a waste of money if you want to buy it just for good sound. If you're a hardcore fan or collector then you may consider it. I don't know how the original sounds, but the MFSL is so much better. I don't expected it be as good as MFSL, but i hoped it would be a nice alternative to listen to. I have the Dynamic Range Levels of the three versions New Remaster: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed folder: ... John Lennon - Signature Box [box-Set, Original Recording Remastered] (2010)John Lennon - Mind Games ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Filename ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR12 -0.21 dB -14.37 dB (01) Mind Games - John Lennon.wav DR11 -0.15 dB -12.83 dB (02) Tight As - John Lennon.wav DR11 -0.20 dB -12.88 dB (03) Aisumasen (I'm Sorry) - John Lennon.wav DR11 -0.24 dB -13.32 dB (04) One Day (At A Time) - John Lennon.wav DR12 -0.20 dB -13.12 dB (05) Bring On The Lucie (Freda Peeple) - John Lennon.wav DR6 -58.49 dB -71.20 dB (06) Nutopian International Anthem - John Lennon.wav DR13 -0.19 dB -14.03 dB (07) Intuition - John Lennon.wav DR10 -0.11 dB -12.75 dB (08) Out The Blue - John Lennon.wav DR11 -0.19 dB -13.60 dB (09) Only People - John Lennon.wav DR11 -0.18 dB -12.84 dB (10) I Know (I Know) - John Lennon.wav DR13 -0.21 dB -15.25 dB (11) You Are Here - John Lennon.wav DR10 -0.20 dB -12.20 dB (12) Meat City - John Lennon.wav ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of files: 12 Official DR value: DR11 ============================================================================================== MFSL: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed folder: ... John Lennon - Mind Games (MFSL, 1973) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Filename ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR9 -2.43 dB -13.09 dB 01 - Mind Games.wav DR12 over -13.59 dB 02 - Tight A$.wav DR11 -0.73 dB -13.61 dB 03 - Aisumasen (I'm Sorry).wav DR12 over -14.52 dB 04 - One Day (At A Time).wav DR14 over -15.43 dB 05 - Bring On The Lucie (Freda People).wav DR8 -34.65 dB -49.58 dB 06 - Nutopian International Anthem.wav DR14 over -15.13 dB 07 - Intuition.wav DR10 -1.86 dB -13.56 dB 08 - Out The Blue.wav DR13 over -13.98 dB 09 - Only People.wav DR14 over -14.91 dB 10 - I Know (I Know).wav DR15 -0.00 dB -16.53 dB 11 - You Are Here.wav DR12 -0.00 dB -13.33 dB 12 - Meat City.wav DR12 -2.48 dB -17.69 dB 13 - Aisumasen (I'm Sorry) [Home Version].wav DR11 -4.17 dB -17.46 dB 14 - Bring On The Lucie (Freda People) [Home Version].wav DR12 -1.00 dB -15.62 dB 15 - Meat City [Home Version].wav ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of files: 15 Official DR value: DR12 ============================================================================================== Japan EMI TOCP- 70395 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed folder: ... John Lennon - Mind Games (Japan, 1973) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Filename ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR9 -0.17 dB -10.20 dB 01-John Lennon-Mind Games.wav DR10 -0.11 dB -10.86 dB 02-John Lennon-Tight A$.wav DR11 -0.17 dB -12.41 dB 03-John Lennon-Aisumasen (I'm Sorry).wav DR10 -0.07 dB -12.27 dB 04-John Lennon-One Day (At A Time).wav DR10 -0.11 dB -11.20 dB 05-John Lennon-Bring On The Lucie (Freda Peeple).wav DR8 -35.00 dB -49.74 dB 06-John Lennon-Nutopian International Anthem.wav DR11 -0.08 dB -11.71 dB 07-John Lennon-Intuition.wav DR8 -0.06 dB -10.38 dB 08-John Lennon-Out The Blue.wav DR9 -0.10 dB -10.28 dB 09-John Lennon-Only People.wav DR11 -0.07 dB -12.01 dB 10-John Lennon-I Know (I Know).wav DR12 -0.12 dB -14.21 dB 11-John Lennon-You Are Here.wav DR10 -0.11 dB -11.40 dB 12-John Lennon-Meat City.wav DR11 -0.17 dB -13.27 dB 13-John Lennon-Aisumasen (I'm Sorry) (Home Version).wav DR11 -2.08 dB -15.19 dB 14-John Lennon-Bring On The Lucie (Freda Peeple) (Home Version).wav DR10 -0.15 dB -12.32 dB 15-John Lennon-Meat City (Home Version).wav ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of files: 15 Official DR value: DR10 ============================================================================================== Link to comment
bixby Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 what software program are you using to get the dynamic range figures? Link to comment
firedog Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Aren't these made from the Yoko remasters of a few years ago? If so, I'm not sure how they can sound so great, as the previous group of remasters was heavily volume compressed. I hated the sound - bought them and never listen to them. But if the MFSL aren't made from these, thanks for the heads-up, I'll appreciate not spending on the remasters, if the MFSL sound better. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Lakefield Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 @ bixby I use the TT Dynamic Range Meter (http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/) ...which is no longer a free download as i just found out. You have to become an active member now Maybe you can find it if you're looking for it somewhere else, if you now what i mean. It works for MP3 and WAV. I rip my CDs in WAV, let the Dynamic Range Meter run through it and then convert it to FLAC and write the DR# in the comments. @firedog The MFSL's doesn't sound compressed. I don't know which masters they used for it. On the Japan CD, the instruments are much louder mixed compared to Lennons voice. But with a DR 10 still listenable. Link to comment
wgb113 Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 I've got the MFSL CD versions of Plastic Ono Band and Imagine. Double Fantasy's probably the only other of his solo albums I'd consider so I guess just picking it up would be okay. I did read that the box set version is only one disc and doesn't contain the stripped down version...I'd be pissed if I bought the box set only to find that out... Bill Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Mac Mini->Roon + Tidal->KEF LS50W Link to comment
Lakefield Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 My friend is already pissed. I told him to keep it for 30 years and sell the Box when Lennon got his 100th B-day I found some samples from 'Mind Games' on a German online shop (i hope you can listen to it) It's not a perfectly accurate way to compare but it should give you an idea. It's basically what i experienced. This is the new 2010 remaster: http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/poprock/detail/-/art/John-Lennon-Mind-Games/hnum/6139616 And this is the Japan CD i got http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/poprock/detail/-/art/John-Lennon-Mind-Games/hnum/6203797 Track 12. 'Meat City' says it all. Couldn't find an MFSL sample of 'Mind Games', but they have 'Imagine' as MFSL New 2010 remaster: http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/poprock/detail/-/art/John-Lennon-Imagine/hnum/8180428 MFSL http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/poprock/detail/-/art/John-Lennon-Imagine-24-Karat-Gold-CD/hnum/9367777 It may not be that dramatic in the samples but from CD it's quite obvious. Link to comment
wgb113 Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 The Mind Games comparison is so obvious that I've got to think something is wrong with the samples of the new remasters. Can they REALLY be that bad??? It sounds like a 4th generation sub-par bootleg compared to the Japanese version. The differences on Imagine seemed a little more in the mix rather than the master. Bill Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Mac Mini->Roon + Tidal->KEF LS50W Link to comment
Lakefield Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 There's nothing wrong with the samples, although they're Low Quality MP3s you can clearly hear whats going on. It's get even worse on CD. I think the MFSL's are from the same master tapes as the new ones, but they did a much better job with it. Have you looked up the 'Double Fantasy' album there? http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/home/search/-/lang/en/currency/EUR/fastsearch/john+lennon+double+fantasy/pd_orderby/score They have three versions you can listen to - the new one - a 2000 remaster issue - and a Ltd. Papersleeve issue from 2007 I listened to the Remix-samples, they are quite interesting. Sounds like 'Double Fantasy - Naked'. Maybe the asked price for the album is okay if it's just for the music. 'Double Fantasy' doesn't sound as bad as 'Mind Games' tho. Link to comment
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