Backing up the music library

[Cemil]

My present setup is a Mac Mini running Amarra Mini, with two external drives sitting in my hifi rack. The Mac is connected to the DAC section of my Playback Designs via a Weiss 202 Firewire interface.

 

One of the external drives is used for low quality mp3 and the other (a 2TB drive) for full res AIFF rips. I also have 96/24 FLACs on the Mac's own internal HD.

To protect against drive failure, I would like to back up the 2 TB Hi res drive and the FLAC files on the Mac's HD, and to this end, I bought a 3TB Seagate drive.

 

I wasn't too keen on adding yet another drive to my hifi rack (starting to look like a computer room!) so hooked up the 3TB to another Mac in the house and attempted to copy the external drive. It needs about 380 hours according to the copy thing!

 

I tried using Timeline, but that didn't work. I don't know if it sees the external drives. It seemed to hang.

 

Therefore, I wonder what people are using to do the backups. Ideally, I would use a software that would do incremental backups of the 2TB drive and the internal HD. I don't mind if the first backup takes 10 days, but after that, it would be good to back up only the recently added files, once every 2 weeks, say. I realise that doing it through the network will take a lot of time, but perhaps I could hook up the external drive directly on the Mac Mini for the first backup, then remove it to the other Mac for the incremental drives?

 

Thanks for any advice

 

Cemil

 

[findog3103]

I use two Lacie 500gb external rugged hard drives - one at work and one at home. The one at work is my main drive for music. I use the SuperDuper! software to do a smart backup every two weeks to match the drive at work with the one at home. After the first time, it is quick and cheap ($30 for the app.)

 

[Codifus]

I use it to backup my iTunes server over ethernet to my other mac desktop. CCCloner uses the rsync engine and SSH to copy your data over the network securely.

 

Also, are you connected wirelessly between Macs? If so, that will affect backup times significantly. For example, wireless G, even though it boasts a max throughput of 54 mbps will only give you about 1/4 the bandwidth of 100 base-t ethernet. This is due to protocol inefficiencies etc.

 

CD

 

[Cemil]

Thanks for the comments.

 

Indeed, I am connecting wirelessly between the 2 Macs. A wired Ethernet is not an option as the Mac Mini is nowhere near an Ethernet socket. I do realise that wireless is much slower, but that's nearly all I can do right now. One thing I could look for is these ethernet over the power lines.

 

I'll look at the software options suggested for incremental backups. Perhaps once every few weeks I just need to hook up the backup drive on the Mini and do it from there ..

 

[ehrawn]

I think you should relook at using Time Machine to automate your backups. I am doing something similar with my MacBook. Of course you will need to hook up your 3 TB drive to your rounter. Easy if you have a AEBS, but also works if you have an ethernet adapter.

 

Hook up your Mini with Music library drives to your wired ethernet router temperarily. Attach your 3 TB drive to your router using your prefered method. Set up Time Machine to back it up to your new 3 TB drive. When it's done (which will take a very long time), put your Mini back on your rack. Time Machine is smart enough to continue to back up to your 3 TB drive wirelessly.

 

[Cemil]

I can certainly run temporarily a long ethernet cable to the Mini and do the first backup this way. Good idea - thanks.

 

However, I was also under the impression that Time Machine didn't backup external drives - am I mistaken? I'll read up more n it, but if you know the answer, I'd appreciate a quick word

 

 

[ManWithAPlan]

Don't use Time Machine for this, it does not do well with pure data files like this, it is great for System libraries, and main boot drive backups, but backing up external drives (as the source, not the target) is a very bad idea. Ignore that guy.

 

I use ChronoSync on a Mac, works great, been around forever, and will do scheduled backups for you as well (incremental or full overwrites). The other gentleman that suggested SuperDuper, that's also a good option. Carbon Copy Cloner is great, I love it, but there again, it is mainly used for copying boot drives that change frequently, though it could be used here no doubt. ChronoSync is built for keeping files between source and target fully synced, with honoring of all file attributes, meta-data, etc. Not that the others mentioned in this post aren't, just like ChronoSync for this.

 

So, ChronoSync or SuperDuper, definitely the move. And yes, do yourself a favor and do the first dump over ethernet, not wireless.

 

-Brian

 

[Codifus]

Carbon Copy Cloner is great, I love it, but there again, it is mainly used for copying boot drives that change frequently, though it could be used here no doubt. ChronoSync is built for keeping files between source and target fully synced, with honoring of all file attributes, meta-data, etc.

 

You inject this uncertainty and doubt for CCCloner, yet it will do everything you mentioned that ChronoSync does. The fact that CCCloner also creates a bootable copy can only be considered a plus. And, it's free. You can donate funds if you really like it.

 

Interesting.

 

CD

 

[ManWithAPlan]

Good point. Thinking about this further, there's no doubt CCC can do the job also, and I had forgotten that ChronoSync is not free. Obviously, CCC is and that may be reason enough right there.

 

-Brian

 

[Cemil]

Thanks a lot for the info.

 

I'll look at the suggested software and decide.

 

[ehrawn]

Time Machine excludes external drives by default but that chan be changed through the system preferences.

 

Brian, can you explain what time machine does or doesn't do that puts backed up data at risk?

 

[ManWithAPlan]

It's simply not as efficient as Carbon Copy Cloner, ChronoSync or SuperDuper. Speed is slower, and to be fair, that's okay, it was designed not so much for simple data file backups, but really focused on backing up entire systems, with the emphasis on backing up one's boot os, apps, system files, preferences, etc. I use it all the time to back up main boot/app drives and such on osx client machines. But when pure data file backups are the requirement (as the poster clearly intends), then using CCC or ChronoSync will be leaner and faster. CCC also has the added feature of being able to create beautiful bootable clones, but that's a different use case and further off-track :-)

 

 

 

[I. G.]

Well, actually Time Machine is a whole-file based incremental backup system, designed for any file backups, so it is nicely capable to backup the iTunes music library. It has a "Back Up Now" menu option so after a batch of ripping the new albums can be "duplicated" immediately. In the case of accidental deleting the deleted tracks are at the previous point of the timeline. Music tracks won't change often after the ripping and proper tagging, so unnecessary copies won't be on the backup disk. If the music library is on an external disk it's probably the only thing so the setup of an exclusion list is not a problem. The only advantage of "cloning" that the clone can be used immediately, restore process is not needed.

 

[ItemAudio]

Always in triplicate: 1. Live copy / 2. HD copy / 3. Optical archive

 

It's surprising how fast eMusic, iTunes and 'other' downloads accumulate without CD backup: it's vital to have everything (additionally) safe on archival-grade DVD-R. I even backup my ALAC rips so that in the event of an EM pulse of freak electrical storm, or Armageddon, I can restore my library more easily.

 

When (not if), the HD fails, you don't want to have your entire music library vulnerably existing in one copy only while you duplicate it, do you? Or am I paranoid?

 

[ManWithAPlan]

You make a good point, but I would also say that having an off-site backup is also key. Think fire, water damage, etc. A music library is a treasure for those of us with large, irreplaceable files. Keeping off-site backups is always a Good Thing™. Now, DVD-R is one format, there are many more efficient options, but yes, I completely agree with the point you're making. I use BD-ROM (BluRay) for 25GB or 50GB per disk storage depending on type. I also have a safe deposit box with a 2TB esata/usb drive that I pull out and mirror to about twice a year. You guys probably think I'm crazy, but I'm kinda serious when I say I'm not ripping again. These files will be passed down for generations for someone's benefit :-)

 

[mwheelerk]

I use Time Machine with my iMac and iTunes Library that resides on an external drive and it backs it up incrementally and works flawlessly. I think the comment about not using Time Machine is wrong.

 

[Cemil]

I still can't get Time Machine to work.

 

I've got both the Mini and the iMac now on Ethernet wires. I can see the Mini and its drives from the iMac. I can open the drives, see the contents etc.. (I setup sharing). However, when I open the Time Machine Preferences, and chose the Options to deselect what I do NOT want backed up, I can do this for the local iMac drives/folders, but I cannot do this for the the devices on the network (the Shared devices). I can see the shared devices, but cannot select any of them to "Exclude" from the backup.

 

How do I set this up for it to backup external drives that are residing on another computer (Mac Mini) than the one the backup drive is connected to (iMac)?

 

 

+++

 

Btw, I did download Carbon Copy Cloner. You seem to need a PhD in computing to understand how to configure it. I couldn't get it to see the networked Mac Mini. The Source Disk menu only shows what's on the Mac running CCC. The Help menus seem to show a complicated procedure for backing TO another Mac computer on the network, but not FROM another Mac computer!

I'm still at square 1 ...

 

 

[bikemig]

I agree about the importance of offsite backup. I have two external usb hard drives and I cycle them for backing up my music (and other documents) at least once a month. I keep one in my office and the other is at my home doing back up duty. I keep it attached to my time capsule where it shows up as a network drive which makes backing up fairly painless. In addition I use time machine at home as well. That way I have two back ups at home and another at work which is no more than a month old. I'm also contemplating becoming even more paranoid about my data and buying one of these, IoSafe Solo 1 TB Fireproof and Waterproof External Hard Drive. Apparently they can take a hit from either fire (at least for a short time) or water and still survive; that might be worth paying $200 for a 1TB external. Plus it includes a data recovery service in the price for the first year.

 

[Codifus]

You seem to need a PhD in computing to understand how to configure it. I couldn't get it to see the networked Mac Mini.

 

OK, I will sheepishly admit that the user interface can be a bit of a challenge. Backing up to a remote computer using CCC does need some familiarity with unix path names and command line terminal. Unix pathnames are similar to windows with these exceptions:

 

1. Unix Pathnames use the forward slash instead of backslash;

 

UNIX: /Volumes/Backups/Musiclibrary/

 

Windows: C:Windowssystem32

 

2. Unix pathname are case sensitive. /Backup and /backup are 2 different directories in unix. In windows they are the same.

 

To summarize, you need to do this;

 

A. Install CCC cloner on your mac with iTunes.

B. Turn on remote login (in systems preferences/sharing) on your other mac on the network.

C. Find out what folder you want to on the remote mac you want to backup to. It is important that the folder be empty, or just create a new one. CCC cloner has a tendency to obliterate the contents of a folder. An empty one is best:)

D. In CCC cloner, create an authentication package. It's a piece of software that uses SSH functionality to backup your data across the network.

E. Copy that authentication package to the remote Mac. After enabling remote login (in systems preferences/sharing), double click to run that package on the remote mac.

F.DONE. Configured.

 

Now, on your mac with itunes, you launch CCC cloner and tell it to backup to the IP address of the Mac on the network. The IP address of the Mac should appear now as an option. Also, you specify the folder to backup to. You have to type in the pathname, something like /Volumes/Backups/Music/iTunesLibrary/NewFolder/

 

That should be it.

 

The CCC cloner help documention in the help menu is very detailed and can help with any point I may have missed and not explained clearly.

 

 

Once you have completed this configuration, and yes it is a bit cumbersome. you can completely forget about your backup. My CCC cloner's been running on auto-pilot for a year and a half now.

 

Every once in a while I look at the backup folder to make sure its keeping up with any newly added files and it always is.

 

Hope this helps.

 

CD

 

 

 

 

 

[Cemil]

Thanks CD, but :

 

"A. Install CCC cloner on your mac with iTunes."

 

That's precisely what I was trying to avoid. Amarra doesn't like to have any other software running on its Mac, including Time Machine.

 

I was hoping that I would be able to do the backups remotely without installing anything on the Mini - the logic being that since I can see and read the Mini files over the network, I should be able to back them up!

 

I have also received a mail from the CCC people as follows: "

You cannot back up *from* a remote Mac *to* your internal hard drive. You will need to run CCC from the Mac Mini to back up files on its hard drive or any drives attached to it.

 

There are several steps you need to perform before you can start backing up over the network. " which ties in with your comments.

 

Back to the drawing board. If I'm going to be installing software on the Mini, I might as well put the external drive and use Timeline ,,,

 

 

 

[ehrawn]

How do I set this up for it to backup external drives that are residing on another computer (Mac Mini) than the one the backup drive is connected to (iMac)

 

Try this: http://infosonic.wordpress.com/2008/02/14/time-machine-backup-onto-network-share/

 

[mwheelerk]

or maybe check out some of the support topics here

 

http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1342

 

 

 

[Codifus]

That's precisely what I was trying to avoid. Amarra doesn't like to have any other software running on its Mac, including Time Machine.

 

CCCloner only runs when scheduled. My backups run at 2:30 in the morning. Once completed, the application quits. Your Amarra environment may be able to accommodate that type of schedule.

 

It can't hog the Mac's CPU 24/7;)

 

CD

 

[topman26]

thumps up for your article, great post...

 

[Cemil]

All sorted now

 

Thanks to your input, I downloaded and tried CCC. I had quite a few issues to get it going, but in the end I got some super help from the developer Mike Bombich, who walked me through the process and was patient enough with what seemed to be my very basic questions.