Suggestions for building a laptop based audio system

[Klaatu]

Hello. ItemAudio thought that this might be a more appropriate spot for my question which I posted in the DAC section yesterday.

 

I have a couple of hard drives full of Flac files from CDs and want to use them to tie into a laptop based high end home audio system.

 

Does anyone have a system set up like this where their main concern was audio quality? Can you suggest how I should get started? What specific things to purchase for this goal. Example: what kind of laptotp; what kind of DAC; what kind of integrated amp., etc.

 

If you are kind enough to help, I'm a bit of a novice. So, if you can keep it simple I'll understand much better.

 

Thanks so much,

 

Klaatu

 

 

[weib]

Laptop -> Digital transport ( hiface etc..) -> DAC -> yada yada.

 

Software -> Jriver/Itunes(mac) + pure music etc.

 

Laptop depends on your platform of interest - mac or pc?

Dac - depends on budget and sound you're after.

Amp - same..

Speakers - same...

 

You have to give more information with regards to your requirements so that more advice can be given.

 

It is very vague at best.

 

[Klaatu]

Thanks for responding Weib:

 

I wrote the below in another section yesterday and I'm pasting it for you below.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello everyone from a first time writer.

 

My objective is to build a simple computer based high quality listening system.

 

I would describe my level of expertise as beginner and as one who has been acquiring knowledge in this area.

 

My old Luxman 2 channel system has now said goodbye to me and has left me listening to music through my laptop with a pair of inferior Altec Lansing speakers.

 

I have a considerable collection of music on a couple of external hard drives. I extracted these files from an outside source CD collection using EAC software into FLAC and then decoded into WAV for listening through my laptop. Since I have this extensive hard drive collection and would not want to go through the agony of burning it all to disks, I want to now stay dedicated to computer based music.

 

I would like to purchase another laptop for this exclusive use first of all - to use its interface - and then connect it to an integrated amplifier, most likely through the USB 2.0 port. I know that I will not get a quality sound chip from the laptop so I would also want to look into a USB adaptor or extention with an excellent chip to by-pass it and then run it to the integrated amp and out some speakers.

 

I will probably have it just for listening to what is on my hard drives and therefore will not want or need to have online access such as a Sonos. I also will not want to have wireless.

 

The ingredients I've listed above are ones that I have gleaned from the internet for someone who wants to listen to their music using a laptop but at the same time wants very high quality sound.

 

My questions would be:

 

1. Have I got it right to start with? Or am I missing things that a beginner can miss.

 

2. Is there another way I can achieve what I want? Or am I on the right track?

 

3. Should I look for certain things in a laptop when shopping for one for my purpose so that I don't have buyer's remorse? Can someone suggest a few to choose from if you have been down this road that I'm about to travel?

 

4. If I've got it right about a portable USB 2.0 processor to hook on to the laptop, can anyone suggest a couple of choices for me that would be considered to produce high end quality audio?

 

5. As far as a Integrated Amp, can anyone suggest a couple of choices that would give me the imputs needed for this task e.g. the Moon i.3.3; and whether or not I should get an Amp with an onboard DAC or a separate external. I think if I purchase an external DAC I would still need an Integrated Amp am I correct? You just can't have a external DAC hooked up to your laptop and expect it to do anything right/wrong.

 

I know that I'm asking a lot from the membership but anything that you can throw at me, correct me on, set me straight, or just throw me a bone, it would all be appreciated. You might even have a different slant on something that is totally different which could still help me achieve what I'm looking for. Thanks so much and I look forward to hearing from you who are wiser than I.

 

Klaatu

--------------------------------------------------------------------If you need more information please let me know what I'm missing as I'm very much wanting to know which direction to turn to with each of these purchases. I don't want to buy the wrong thing.

 

My platform would be PC

Willing to spend up to $1000 for a DAC

Willing to spend up to 3500 for a integrated amp

The speakers: I'm willing to spend up to $2000

 

I thought that an onboard DAC in the amp was the way to go, but since have been informed that it would be better to buy these separate. Do you agree?

 

Thanks again Weib.

 

Klaatu

 

[bixby]

Okay, now I am giving away my age. Used to listen to that album when I worked at the record store. And I sold really good hifi there as well.

 

On to your request.

 

Mac or PC - decided?

 

Are the files flac or wav, not clear, why you ask, cuz itunes doesn't do flac.

 

How comfortable are you messing around with computers and os?

 

How big of a room and how loud?

 

What type hard drives, usb, firewire, Nas enclosure, how many drives, capacity?

 

And do not get too hung up on freakin usb, lots of the implementations sound fairly poor.

 

Answer those intital questions and we will get right back to you.

 

Oh, and most of the sound you will ultimately end up with is dependent on your speakers.

 

cheers

 

 

[Klaatu]

Thanks for responding bixby. And yes it was a good album. Those guys just live down the road from me relatively speaking. Toronto.

 

1. I will be running a PC.

2. I have ripped them in FLAC format and decoded them all to WAV to listen on my work PC laptop.

3. Not too handy at tinkering with my OS, but can learn.

4. 25' square feet by 10' high would be my listening area.

5. I have 2 USB drives 1 terabyte and one 500 gigabytes.

6. I have a pair of paradigm monitor series speakers from my dead system but will most likely up-grade soon.

 

Aside from the above information, what do you think of either the Beresford TC-7510 or the HRT Streamer 11 to act as my DAC for my setup? Would either of these be as good as a more expensive Magic or Arcam's DAC? Or are we talking oranges and apples here as far as sound quality.

 

Thanks Bixby,

 

Klaatu

 

[bixby]

Hi Could you clarify the room size 25 sq. feet is only 5 foot by 5 foot, Am I missing something?

 

And how loud do you listen? 74 db, 80db, 90, 90+

 

Never heard the beresford but the guy behind seems questionable. HRT is nice stuff but I have not heard it.

 

More info later.

 

I have one low cost dac coming into one of my systems soon in the next week or so but have no first hand knowledge of its sound. People I trust like the hrt stuff.

 

Have not heard the arcam or dacmagic but I would not have the dacMagic on my shortlist based on what I have read. I would be more likely to look at the Little Dot Dac_I.

 

 

More ideas in a bit. Does your target laptop have toslink or coax?

 

[thotdoc]

iTunes modified by Pure Music ($129.))

HRT 11 Plus ($349.)

Interconnects (basic from good manufacturer or by better one's used) (300.00)

Speaker wires (TC 8s or Z wires ($10.00 foot)

 

This will get you a real sound stage, separation between instruments/people that is well localized and people and instruments that can sound like instruments.

 

Speaker is easy: Maggie 1.7 ($2000.00)

 

What goes in between? Tube or solid state, new or used? Did you buy the Maggies or get something more efficient?

 

Tubes: One of the Prima-Luna or Jolida integrated. Their $2500-3000.00 units will get you the harmonics, timber and bloom that makes it magic.

 

Solid state:I'm a tube guy, but if I wanted solid state I'd buy a used John Curl designed pre-amp and...somebody help me here with a great set of monoblocks that come up for sale used. Or, new??

 

Gordon

 

Macbook Pro-iTunes-Pure Music-HRT 11 Plus/Well Tempered TT-VDH cart-Atmasphere MP-1-Atmasphere M60's-Maggies/Quad sub or Met 7, 8, 9, Ribbons/HSU sub

 

 

[Klaatu]

Thanks for your response Gordon.

 

Much appreciated.

 

I'm falling asleep now so must sign off. Take care and we'll talk again to you all.

 

Klaatu

 

God Bless

 

[Klaatu]

Good Evening:

 

First to Bixby - my room is 25'x 25' x 9'. Sorry about the error previously. Also, listening level would be mid-range whatever db that is and the quality of audio that I'm looking for would be in the above average category. I've got pretty high expectations but hoping price doesn't follow that too closely as I've heard some amazing sound being achieved at not so lofty prices.

 

To the others who offered suggestions - thanks. It might take me a few rounds with you to get to that place where I can safely say that I'm getting a handle on how to achieve my goal of putting together a laptop based high end audio system. I appreciate your patience and you offering your help to me at all.

 

Can I start back at the first piece of equipment I'd be purchasing i.e. a laptop - PC based. Are there some features that I would want to have in a laptop so that I would not be leaving myself without in reaching my above goal. A lose example would be: the laptop's chip support of DVD audio at 24-bit/96kHz.

 

Note:

The laptop that I could afford would only have USB capability. The more expensive ones have the toslink which are out of my price range. I've heard that when you use the USB, that you bypass the computer's cheap audio chip - which is what I want - so that I can pop a good DAC into it. Alternatively, does anyone think that I should go with a custom built desk top specifically for this purpose therefore giving me the optical out but maybe less expensive than a laptop with the toslink? Please explain. I would rather have my computer audio station to be laptop based just for the more minimalist avenue. Any feedback would be great.

 

Thanks,

 

Klaatu

 

[thotdoc]

Your questions here indicate that you need to read more, b4 asking questions.

 

"The laptop that I could afford would only have USB capability. The more expensive ones have the toslink which are out of my price range. I've heard that when you use the USB, that you bypass the computer's cheap audio chip - which is what I want - so that I can pop a good DAC into it."

 

You need to know about the differences between toslink and USB and that you don't pop a good DAC into the computer.

 

I say this so we can actually help you with answers that fit into some context.

 

My suggestion is read the past forum threads till you get the gist of what is going on. Much of the reading will answer most of your questions.

 

 

 

[bixby]

okay big room.

 

Idea #1

 

Bel Canto e.one s300iU - integrated amp and dac. $2200

 

Speakers - PSB t-65 $1200 pr or one of their higher models

 

Total $3400 leaving you $2200 for another day

 

I have not heard the above but own(ed) Bel Canto amps and PSB speakers and feel both are fantastic for the money.

 

Idea #2

 

DSPeaker from VSLI- One of few speakers that impressed me at RMAF last year. about $3200 and they are active.

 

HRT - Streamer II+ dac $350 simple and gets you started with nice stuff for cheap

 

Total $3750 leaving you with over $2200 in the bank

 

Idea #3

 

Either of the speakers above then add the ayre qb-9 and amp in the case of the PSBs. You may have to use the player software to control volume or get an integrated amp.

 

There are lots of great ideas you just need to start listening and find your speakers then perhaps work backwards to dac and /or amp needs.

 

oh, snap!

 

Focal Solos or Twins $4-5k (amped) with a Wyred for sound dac ($1500) a bit bright perhaps.

 

And of course we need to factor in some cables to all of this.

 

[Klaatu]

Then tell me where I'm wrong when I say the above. When I go into my local electronic store and all they have are USB ported laptops and no optical outs and they also say that those with optical outs usually cost more and you usually find them in higher end gamer's laptops, are they lying to me? And tell me where I'm wrong about by-passing the USB port in my statement. Tell me where I'm wrong about connecting a DAC into the laptop's USB port for better sound which by-passes the laptop's often times inferior audio component? If I'm wrong then correct me.

 

I think that you could help me now if you wanted to, but if you do not want to and you think that I'm too unschooled and have to be sent back to bleachers before I can walk the hallowed halls again, then hopefully others will be willing to help.

 

Klaatu

 

[Klaatu]

Wow! Those are some thoughtful ideas. Thanks. Some of these items I've not heard about before. The two high-end audio stores that we have here in town carry companies like Bryston; Arcam; Lynn; Sim Audio; Nad; MacIntosh; etc, but I guess they can't have everything. But thanks, I will look into these.

 

Can you tell me the make up of your computer audio system? The items that it consists of including brand names? Also, the HRT - Streamer II+ dac, do you yourself have one of these? Or heard one? Here is a quote from "The Absoute Sound" by Alan Sircom "The HRT soundstage is not an expansive one; sounds sit between the speakers rather than spread wide and deep. It’s sort of string quartet sized, instead of expansive orchestral sized..." If you have heard one before, do you concur with his opinion? If his conclusion is correct, do you think that it is due to the fact that it is one of those "you get what you pay for things" and if you want good soundstage then you have to be willing to pay more for it?

 

Finally, you mentioned the Little Dot DAC. Do you know anyone that has one of these and what they think of it?

 

Thanks Bixby,

 

Klaatu

 

[bixby]

Hi Klaatu:

 

To answer your follow on questions. My system today consists of Macbook, Siliflex toslink, Benchmark DAC1, Belc Canto EVO 4 amp, proprietary speaeker cable, SP Technolgies Tiempiece 2.1 speakers (now Aether Audio.

 

My rec on the hrt came from a friend who I trust but I have not heard it. He owns the pro though.

 

Based on your budget and need to go usb, I would hone in on dacs like the Ayre. I have heard it and it does sound great. I just think it is a bit pricey. I am a penny pincher at heart i guess.

 

Good luck in your search, and I do agree with the OP that spending some time here reading would be a good exercise. More importantly get out and listen to some stuff. You will amaze yourself in the variety that is out there.

 

[thotdoc]

Klaatu-If you read that I was dissing you in some way, that was not my intent.

 

My intent is: Before you can get answers that don't simply create further questions, you have to have a lot of background info...that requires a lot of reading. There are no hallowed halls here. AS someone posts, we are all bozo's on this boat.

 

I get completely lost when the talk turns electrical.

 

To answer you:1) USB is preferred to optical out. So, this is a non issue. 2) In your statement, you said something like, 'slap a new DAC into the computer'...I'm paraphrasing. But, literally that means to replace the internal DAC, rather than by-pass. If you understand you need to bypass, you're good to go.

 

Best

 

[Klaatu]

Good evening:

 

First thing is that I'm not here for a free lunch. And quite to the contrary of how naive and amateurish my conversations and questions might sound, I have done research and much time reading. But it seems that filling in the blanks can be quite difficult. To find a thread or a site that speaks specific to one's particular niche of inquiry, I have found impossible - I'm "googled" to death. By the way, I did not intend for my statement about the DAC to be taken the way you did G. I thought that one would have gathered that I meant to connect one onto the laptop via USB port, but anyways no matter I must be more clear.

 

Thanks for writing,

 

Klaatu

 

 

 

[BEEMB]

Just remember if you buy a mac the software side is a little easier to set up and the wonderful itunes interface is bit perfect with no tweaking.

 

You could then use bootcamp to run windows.

 

On the pc side you'll need to fiddle some more but its not difficult to get a nice clean output. Even itunes has turned on dac lights since apple added windows audio session under the quicktime preferences.

 

 

 

[bixby]

thotdoc has some good points and has provided some interesting observations.

 

One point that I beg to differ with is that USB is preferred to optical out. I have heard lots of mid pricedc usb implementations that are not nearly as good as toslink and yes even on the same dac. And you cannot say that a usb dac would be better than a dac that only has spdif for example. It is all about the sum of the parts.

 

But enough of my point making. You want a laptop with usb then you get a dac that does usb or a usb - spdif converter or interface. Adds quite a bit to the cost and I sure hope the asyn usb converters do a better job than the adaptive usb dacs I have heard. Because I did not prefer any of them to their toslink or coax connections.

 

I am in the same boat. I am selling a good spdif dac and replacing it because I want better tone, soundstage, etc. I have heard some great dacs and ones that sound that way with toslink for example. The field is pretty limited right now for under $2k dacs with async usb. Wyred being the leading choice. I sure do hope companies get on the wagon and let us see some more.

 

Are there many more?