Need advice on Mac Mini with Benchmark DAC1 Pre

[paugust]

Ok, here’s my situation. I own a Benchmark Dac1 Pre that I currently use only for CDs. I had a brief experience copying a sizable portion of my CDs to an extra XP system in my living room and became enamored of this way of playing music. Then, the hard drive failed and, because the XP system was ancient, I decide to junk it. Then I discovered this site and have been using the last 8 months or so to learn about computer based audio. It’s a great site and I’ve learned a lot but am still confused about a lot. I’ve always been a pc guy, but my son is all Mac and has convinced me I should convert.

My office, (and current XP system which I don’t currently use for music), is in the basement family room as is my home theater. My music listening room is upstairs in the living room. I’d like to locate the music/photo/home video server in my office to interface both with the family room HT and upstairs living room music system, (through the BM Dac1). (Cable would be 30 or 40 feet). I’ve tentatively decided on a Mac Mini with KB and display as the base of this server and either an iPod or iPad to control the music in the living room. I’d want to be able to play both dubbed CDs and high resolution files up to 24/192.

 

Questions:

1. Is this a good overall plan? Are there any problems that might make it cumbersome?

2. I understand that, if I want to do 24/192, I must use the coax input on the DAC1 Pre instead of the USB. Is this correct and, if so, what interface board options are there for the Mac Mini?

3. I understand that using iTunes can work by itself but that it won’t automatically change sampling/bit rates when changing between different music files. Am I correct about this and is there a reasonable priced solution? (I understand Sonic Solutions Amarra is $6k or so and would be way out of the ball park for me).

4. Are there any other helpful observations any of you have that would apply to my situation?

 

Chris, I’m eager to read your recommendations as well as those of any others on the forum.

 

Thanks to everyone in advance for any help. Chris, you’ve got a great site here!

 

 

[Mr.C]

1. Is this a good overall plan? Are there any problems that might make it cumbersome?

 

Yes, good plan. Make sure you go balanced (AES) for that length of cable.

 

 

2. I understand that, if I want to do 24/192, I must use the coax input on the DAC1 Pre instead of the USB. Is this correct and, if so, what interface board options are there for the Mac Mini?

 

There are few options right now that go USB or Firewire to AES at 24/192, the Weiss INT202 comes to mind. You might also try a USB extender like the Opticis one. It has the added advantage of isolating the computer from DAC.

 

3. I understand that using iTunes can work by itself but that it won’t automatically change sampling/bit rates when changing between different music files. Am I correct about this and is there a reasonable priced solution? (I understand Sonic Solutions Amarra is $6k or so and would be way out of the ball park for me).

 

Amarra is $1k, the software with hardware is $5k.

 

4. Are there any other helpful observations any of you have that would apply to my situation?

 

You may find that getting two computers with one Network Attached Storage (NAS) is cheaper in the long run.

 

[ldolse]

Actually the DAC1 USB will be fine with the mini, I have a DAC1 USB as well, I don't primarily use it with my mini, but I have before and it works fine.

 

Other concerns:

• The USB out on the DAC1 only accepts 96Khz, you'll need a USB-SPDIF converter that supports up to 192Khz if you want to use the higher resolutions. Check out the M2Tech Hiface, Audiophilleo, Musiland Monitor01 USD, or the Weiss INT202 for devices which can convert from USB/Firewire to SPDIF at 192. Note there are others like Legato that are highly rated but only support 44Khz, or only up to 96Khz
  
• DAC1 USB is not asynchronous, so I find it doesn't sound quite as good as the SPDIF input. Again, check the devices above for built in clocks/asynchronous USB support to ensure a good SPDIF signal.
  
• You don't need to purchase the 4-6K Amarra products to solve the sample rate problem, you could just purchase their Amarra Mini software just to fix it, which is just a few hundred dollars, not several thousand. Alternatively check out PureMusic - same functions as Amarra for 100-200 dollars.
  

 

[bottlerocket]

You did not mention your budget, but if you want inexpensive, here goes

Note this is limited to 24/96

 

1) Mac Mini - Yes

2) get a long toslink cable to your DAC - maybe $75 for 15 meters. Or get a USB extender as previously mentioned.

3) Get Pure Music for the auto bit rate conversion. Not sure of the price $100 - $200 sounded right.

 

BTW, any reason you don't want to put the Mini in the living room?

 

Does the benchmark support 24/192? The mac will only do this via USB or Firewire and I am thinking the benchmark won't do 24/192 by USB and there is no firewire. How do you intend to interface with the Mini?

 

 

[wgscott]

The mini should be fine. The two native digital output options are mini-Toslink and USB. If you can avoid having to convert to coax, you will save yourself a headache. The distance might be long for an optical signal; I don't know. Is there any reason not to put the mini or the DAC closer? Apple hardware is usually among the best, and OS X is a vastly better OS than windows, so I think you will be happy but might find you want to use the computer for more than serving music. If you bought a second mini (or an iMac for your office) you can stream music wirelessly between them. You might as well attach one of them to a TV (via miniDVI to HDMI).

 

I've just set the output to 24-bit with audio midi and left it there for everything (the vast majority of my stuff is 16-bit). I've never switched back and forth. Is there a reason you (or I) would need to? I was under the impression that leaving it in 24-bit mode was absolutely harmless to the sound quality. I've only been doing this for a month or so, so I am certainly no expert.

 

[Audio_ELF]

To your specific questions...

 

1. Is this a good overall plan? Are there any problems that might make it cumbersome?

If I understand it, you are planning on a single computer which will (a) store all your music, photos and video files, (b) play music on your Audio system via the Benchmark DAC1Pre and © provide video to your HT room. If I may say so I think you are expecting a single computer to do rather a lot there. I would look at splitting into several components.

 

First, get a NAS. Something like the Netgear ReadyNAS or (if you can afford it) a Thecus or QNAP unit. This will hold all your music (and other files) and allow you to access them from anywhere in the house.
Second, for your Music room, get a MacMini. Use this to provide digital signal to your Benchmark DAC. An alternative to the MacMini would be to look at a streamer device such as Squeezebox Touch (to connect to Benchmark) or one of the Linn DS devices (which would replace the Benchmark).
Third, for your HT room, get a device such as WD TV HD Media Player or, if you have some computer skills, a Atom powered Nettop running XBMC. This will allow you to play all the files stored on your NAS.

 

A setup with these three devices will allow you full access to your files at the best quality. It also removes the practical issues of running long SPDIF or AES cables - though I would run Cat5e for Ethernet if at all possible, don't rely on Wireless signals.

 

2. I understand that, if I want to do 24/192, I must use the coax input on the DAC1 Pre instead of the USB. Is this correct and, if so, what interface board options are there for the Mac Mini?

You are crrect that if you wish 24/96 then you will need an additional interface. The most cost effective way for this is with the M2Tech HiFace USB to SPDIF interface. Other options (though much more expensive) include the Weiss INT202 and using a RME FireFace 400. The Audiophilio and Musiland that Idolse mentioned are limited when using a Mac - the Musiland has no Mac drivers and the Audiophilio only supports 24/96 with the Mac (IIRC). Having said all that - it maybe that 24/96 is sufficient for you - I would start by using the built in interfaces of the MacMini (USB and Mini-TOSLink) into the Benchmark, get used to that and see if you are happy before worrying about buying more equipment - and make sure you get a demo or 30-day trial to see if the cost is worthwhile.

 

3. I understand that using iTunes can work by itself but that it won’t automatically change sampling/bit rates when changing between different music files. Am I correct about this and is there a reasonable priced solution? (I understand Sonic Solutions Amarra is $6k or so and would be way out of the ball park for me).

There are a few options which allow automatic change of sample/bit rate.

 

At the free end of the scale is sbooth.org's Amarra software at ($1000).

 

4. Are there any other helpful observations any of you have that would apply to my situation?

Not really an observation ... but a reminder. Whatever you decide, make sure you get an extra USB connected drive (or two) andmake regular backups of all of your Music, etc. Even if you have a NAS with RAID, this IS NOT A BACKUP. An extra USB drive (or two) with a copy of the files from your NAS is ideal, then if possible store it away from your home - the office, a friends house, in a bank vault.

 

Also, all through I've accepted your thoughts on using a MacMini, but if you are planning to locate it in your listening room as I recommend, you may find that a MacBook Pro is actually a better option for you.

 

Eloise

 

[wgscott]

That last bit of advice is particularly critical. A manual or automated off-site backup is the only thing that will save your data if your house burns. I bought an external $100 portable 1 TB USB drive and I put a copy of everything in there and keep it off-line in a fire safe in a different building. If you can use a remote server like DropBox or some such thing, this will be good too.

 

The one caution with automatic backups/syncing services is that if you experience disk corruption on your main drive before failure, your corrupt files can get copied over your good ones, so having a versioning system in place (eg: TimeMachine) will help, but ultimately that second, off-site, off-line, backup is your ultimate insurance.

 

The more critical your data, the more backups you should make. Disk space is cheap.

 

[audiozorro]

You have been a PC guy all your life, your son likes Mac, so I say do both for redundancy, flexibility and maximum enjoyment.

 

The final chapter has yet to be written as to which path is sonically superior. Why limit or box yourself in, especially since the Benchmark DAC1 Pre has 5 digital inputs. Assuming you believe Amarra or Pure Music is the best to be had on a Mac, you may find many more players equal to or better on Windows PCs.

 

I would imagine that the majority of folks who have a computer now will always have one or more Windows computers over the course of at least the next 10 years. Why just last month it seemed that Dell had heavily discounted dsome very capable desktops up to 50% off and down to $399. You may choose instead to build your own PC or just use an older one lying around. Or how about the $99 netbooks with 3G modems soon to flood the market later this year so service providers can get you to sign-up for 2-yr contracts.

 

You also may want to consider having separate, but networked music servers upstairs and downstairs for even more flexibility.

 

[paugust]

Thank to all of you for your helpful and generous comments.

 

Wgscott, you mentioned I should try to avoid headaches associated with converting to coax. Do you mean converting the USB to S/PDIF coax? If so, what headaches are you referring to. Idolse and Eloise have suggested doing this to achieve 24/192 from the USB output. Do you see problems with this?

 

Eloise, I should have mentioned in my initial entry that part of my plan would be to have some sort of network storage. I was going to ask for advice on that too, so thank you for your recommendations on that subject.

 

Eloise and Wgscott. The reason that I want to locate the Mac Mini in my office is that I can see my HT screen from there and planned to connect the Mac to my Onkyo receiver via the mini DVI to HDMI converter. Then I would run the USB through an active extender to the Dac1 Pre in the living room. (Either to the USB input for 24/96 or through a converter to S/PDIF for 24/192). I would also use the Mac for other functions. Both of you recommend a second computer for the living room. Is there a reason other than cable length that you recommend this?

In either case, is controlling the music server function though an iPod or iPad workable or do I need the KB and dispay of a second computer to do it right?

 

Wgscott. I think the switching problem only involves the sample rate and not the word length. So leaving it at 24 is probably ok.

 

Eloise. Why would the Macbook Pro be better than the Mini?

 

Eloise. Thank for the reminder on back up. I had though a raid would do it.

 

 

[paugust]

But wouldn't you have to have seperate music files for Mac and PC? File extension aren't compatible, are they?

 

[Audio_ELF]

My only reasoning for a MacBook Pro in listening room was that is has a keyboard and mouse and monitor already so no need to add extra kit, etc. Nothing sonic (IMO).

 

eloise

 

[audiozorro]

published in the CA Academy is an excellent guide to read and use as you see fit.

 

The file formats can be compatible, depending on the software player used. For instance I sometimes use Media Monkey to play my WAV, AIFF, and FLAC files on my Windows Music Servers. In general though, WAV and FLAC are preferred for Windows and AIFF is preferred for Mac. Following the CA Strategy and using a ripper like dBPoweramp, you rip once to several different formats simultaneously. The different formats are backups to each other that can be used or, if you wish just archived.

 

Of course some people may just prefer to rip their CDs twice given that it only takes about 3 minutes to rip a CD and if both your Windows and Mac computers are side by side for ripping, one starts 3 minutes early and one finishes about 3 minutes later. In other words ripping to two different formats on different computers does not take twice as long as long as both processes occur at roughly the same time.

 

I believe having and using my music library at home and work, with each a backup to each other. My Windows music server and MacBook Pro provide additional redundancy and flexibility at home. The MacBook Pro is also great for traveling, though I usually also take my iPod and I always have my iPhone.

 

[wgscott]

Remember also that intel macs can run Windows, so if you need to, you can

 

(a) Reboot into a windows partition

 

(b) Run windows as a virtual machine in eg VMware Fusion

 

Songbird on OS X will play FLAC by the way.

 

[paugust]

I just talked with Benchmark and asked them what they thought of the subject device and they said to ask them in about a week. They are in the midst of testing it to make sure, amoung other things, the special USB drivers don't cause problems and that it's bit perfect. It should be interesting to find out what they learn.

 

[wgscott]

Wgscott, you mentioned I should try to avoid headaches associated with converting to coax. Do you mean converting the USB to S/PDIF coax? If so, what headaches are you referring to. Idolse and Eloise have suggested doing this to achieve 24/192 from the USB output. Do you see problems with this?

 

I mean I would either use an optical toslink or USB connection directly, rather than convert it.

 

Eloise, I should have mentioned in my initial entry that part of my plan would be to have some sort of network storage. I was going to ask for advice on that too, so thank you for your recommendations on that subject.

 

Eloise and Wgscott. The reason that I want to locate the Mac Mini in my office is that I can see my HT screen from there and planned to connect the Mac to my Onkyo receiver via the mini DVI to HDMI converter.

 

I guess I am not clear on what you are trying to do, but you can always display your mini screen remotely via VNC (aka Apple Screen Sharing) on any laptop, iPad, iPod, or other computer.

 

Then I would run the USB through an active extender to the Dac1 Pre in the living room. (Either to the USB input for 24/96 or through a converter to S/PDIF for 24/192).

 

USB from the mini, or from the receiver? You know that no audio gets transferred via the mini DVI to HDMI, right?

 

My mini has 44.1 KHz, 48KHz, and 96KHz output options. My Nova DAC samples at 96KHz, so I have to set the output to 48KHz (Nyqvist/Shannon). So I can't even use the 96KHz output, let alone a non-existent 192KHz output. I suspect you know something that I don't, but I don't get what you are trying to do with the "converter to S/PDIF for 24/192". I also don't know whether you mean toslink or cable, but if the former, why not just connect directly with the toslink to the mini?

 

I would also use the Mac for other functions. Both of you recommend a second computer for the living room. Is there a reason other than cable length that you recommend this?

 

Well, I'm still not clear why you want this thing in your office, but I would put the mini near your sound-system (and TV, if you are going to use it to watch movies, iTunes videos, etc) and then put something like an iMac in your office and control it via Apple Screen Sharing if you need to. An iMac is a wonderful office computer, so if you decide to do it that way, my guess is you wouldn't be sorry.

 

Apologies if I have misunderstood everything.

 

 

 

In either case, is controlling the music server function though an iPod or iPad workable or do I need the KB and dispay of a second computer to do it right?

 

The iPad/iPod option is certainly workable. I find I tend to use the second computer. I also have my mini attached to my TV (so it has its own 52" monitor) but it is nice not to have to turn that on to play music.

 

Eloise. Why would the Macbook Pro be better than the Mini?

 

New one has 32 bit and higher freq output options. Still, I have no idea what you could use them for... but then you didn't ask me...

 

 

 

[paugust]

On the theory that a picture is worth a thousand words, the attached diagram is what I'm trying to do.

 

[paugust]

I guess you can't upload a word file. I'll try to convert to a jpeg

 

[paugust]

On the theory that a picture is worth a thousand words, the attached diagram is what I'm trying to do.

 

[paugust]

I just realized that my diagram mistakenly shows the network storage connected directly to the Mac Mini instead of through the network router.

 

[wgscott]

OK, all that seems totally reasonable.

 

(I have something that is somewhat similar, which is diagrammed in a figure you can get to if you click on the sig image below). The main thing I do differently is I have only one DAC, and I then put an analogue sound signal to the TV. But I was thinking of changing it. I bought an optical beam splitter, but it probably isn't satisfactory (my first test, albeit on a different system, revealed annoying random drop-outs every 20 minutes or so).

 

The thing that I think will get old quickly in what you propose is having to toggle back and forth between the USB out and the optical out. Also, what if you want to do both simultaneously, perhaps even with different material.

 

I'm guessing from the figure you aren't poverty-stricken, so for $600 more you can have a second mini, sharing the same library on your networked file server. (Or get an iMac for your office -- you won't be sorry). (Or, better yet, get the new MacBook Pro with the 32-bit/ultra high freq output, which would presumably address your other concern.)

 

[paugust]

"The thing that I think will get old quickly in what you propose is having to toggle back and forth between the USB out and the optical out. Also, what if you want to do both simultaneously, perhaps even with different material"

 

Since it's only my wife and I and she has her own computer it's unlikely that we would ever want the Mac Mini to output stuff to both the living roon music system and the HT at he same time. Nor is it likely that I would be using the Mac for other computer stuff while music was being played unstairs. It may happen that the grand kids would want to watch a bluRay movie or DVR/TV thing while Music was being played, but that wouldn't require dual use of the Mac, so I think I'm alright. Even so, another Mac would probably make things simpler so I may end up doing it.

 

Thanks for the input. It makes me think things through and is really helpful.

 

[audiozorro]

I don't believe you mentioned grand kids before. Possibly another good reason for both a Windows and Mac computer. Both computers support games and educational software, but the Windows computer also supports multichannel audio and Bluray. The family room may also benefit from a game console for a birthday or Xmas.

 

[Audio_ELF]

Personally I wouldn't use two MacMini's ...

 

There are better interfaces for video than using iTunes or FrontRow. Even a XBox 360 or PS3 could be used better than another MacMini for the video (and audio) in the HT Room.

 

Eloise