Massdrop Focal "Elex"

[Mshenay]

19 hours ago, crenca said:

As near as I can tell, this is a Focal Elear with Clear pads (and some different cables) for $800:

 

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-focal-elex-headphones

 

I doubt it's just a pad swapped Elear, the THD measurements are pretty different, but speculation aside the price is good, if it really just is a Pad Swap then Elear owners should rejoice! All they need are a new set of pads to improve their headphones lol

 

Non the less, while I didn't like the Elear... it's flaws were too obvious, the Elex should do very well. Good on Massdrop for launching another well tuned headphone with a super aggressive price! I'm wondering if maybe the "tweaks" performed on the Elear are just mimics to the dampening on the CLEAR plus the pads.

[Mshenay]

1 hour ago, crenca said:

 

I have to admit I am perhaps not you typical HP enthusiast in that I don't think HP's really do "soundstage and imaging" at all.  Stereo simply does not work as designed with he speakers right next to your ears on either side of your head.  This is not to say that the effect is totally lost, but it mostly is and what is left is not right.  Some modern electronic music takes advantage of the skewed "imaging" of HP's and sounds off when played over a two channel...

 

24 minutes ago, exdmd said:

 

You really need to listen to top shelf source files through an excellent DAC and tube amp output to HD800S. You might be surprised.

 

Both are true, the HD 800 with tracks mastered/recorded binaural and some top of the line hard ware perform really well, but by the same extension a nice speaker set up still... exceeds the best system I've heard built around the HD 800. While the cost is dis-proportionate as with most things in this hobby, speakers do seem to offer better imaging for less and can exceed even the HD 800 with a little effort and fine tuning. But alas, I don't have the living space for a nice speaker set up, so my LSR308s will have to do for now! 

 

1 hour ago, crenca said:

 

Are those apple to apple THD measurements (i.e.  are they both from the same source)?  You could be right, perhaps the Elex has some (or all) of the driver tweaks of the Clear.  If so, it is even more of a bargain.  If it is just external damping then it seems it is just an Elear 2.0

 

Mhm, Jude has measurements for both from his/their measurement rig, his lack of experience aside all other variables should be the same. I get the feeling the Elex is the Elear driver but with many of the tweaks of the Clear no just dampening, but again I have no way of knowing! Though the ears that I trust seem to prefer the Elex over the Elear almost unanimously IT is the "super" HD 6## that the Elear should have been but proved to be... apparently.

 

I'm hoping MD continues to  grow a bi yearly launch of Elex's would be nice, kinda like what they are doing/have done with the HD 6XX and now the HE 4XX 

[Mshenay]

23 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

To add to what Mshenay said, I (atypically perhaps) just am not impressed with soundstage/imaging out of any HP rig.  I get it - 800/good tube set up does give a bit in space/width and air, but the "image" is just plain wrong.  I appreciate horsepower, but I like a 911 or an F1 race - not a tractor pull which in fact has "more" horsepower than the former.  Racing is racing, and a tractor pull is...what it is.  "Stereo" and "HeadPhone" is a bit of a contradiction and this is by design.

 

I am a mostly HP high fidelity-ist for all the other things that HP bring to the audio game.  That's just me however...

 

Good analogy, I've yet to really dabble in speakers. So I learned how to perceive "imaging" in headphones over the years. Spending some time at live shows and being a very limited an modest musician my self, I've never felt the image presented was wrong but I'd imagine hearing a really impressive speaker set up my... change my perception entirely! Sadly the live venue's I've attended may not have been the very best stereo set ups and my own personal musical experience is really limited just small groups in smaller rooms or outside. More intimate settings, I've yet to attend a fully staffed Orchestra that spans across hundreds of feet! So having only listened to recordings of such venue's my mind obviously fills in some gaps, and with a real love for Orchestral music I do like how the HD 800 really opens up the space! My own Near Fields don't even match it, but again my point of reference... the ULTIMATE speaker system I heard was only a pair of Maggie 3.07s in a room that was apparently too small for them [very tall but not to deep]

 

This set up impressed me more with it's tactility and resolve than it's imaging. For I felt no real DRASTIC improvement over the headphones I had at the time. Though I only had some Jazz to listen to... I'm excited to hear an orchestral ensemble on maybe a pair of dynamics in a more fitting room.  These days I not even impressed with how Planar Magnetic headphones "image" 

 

My point being,  as impressed as I am with Headphone imaging, even a bad speaker set up seems to match an AMAZING headphone. I'm in agreement with @crenca, I certainly appreciate an brag  about headphones that have good imaging based on my experince, but I've heard enough from speaker rigs to know... the limits of headphones... Headphones are by their design and nature limited in the image they can present and I'm sure as @crencasays headphones compared to speakers don't and won't sound right. 

 

I'll continue to enjoy my headphones ^^ I'm just hoping I can still enjoy the collection I have once I start to attend those larger venues and get some real experience with how "stereo" can and should sound..

 

As for the Elex, is any one here planning to purchase it? If I didn't have a Pre Fazor LCD 2.2 I might consider it but... between the HD 800 and LCD 2.2 I have I doubt the Elex would get much head time

[Mshenay]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

Very true. You're echoing my sentiments to a tee!

 

I have built a very high-end chain driving my (SD-modded) HD-800. There are literally no headphones out there that I want to buy to replace them, at any cost. I keep trying out the latest ones at CanJam's and nothing grabs me. Part of it is, of course, music preference. If, like me, you're into classical, especially large orchestral music, there really is no equal to the HD800/HD800S. 

 

The closest I've come to liking are the Focal Utopia and the Abyss. Both do certain things better. But it all comes back to "imaging."

 

 

Also very true! The HD800 is ruthlessly revealing and does not suffer poor electronics gladly. For a while, I had bought a Focal Elear as a companion to it, that I would use for certain genres, especially rock, where the HD800 could sound rather harsh. Well, as I've improved my digital chain, the Elear became superfluous, and I recently sold it.

 

There are rumors of an HD800S follow-on, possibly close-backed. Maybe one day, the HD800 will be surpassed. If so, I'll be eagerly waiting!

 

I'm sorry to hear you wasted your time with the Elear, even with my lack of experience they never impressed me. An likewise the HD 800 is un-impressive out of the wrong system. My first listen of it with my HM 601 as a source was... dt 880 esque at best. A real let down. Thankfully it scaled nicely at home an I imagine as I improve my own chain it too will improve. As for whether speakers or headphones are better. I've heard impressions for both sides of the story, claiming the latter is never better than the former. I enjoy both and will likely continue to chase after headphones primarily since owning a dozen headphones is easier than owning a dozen sets of speakers. 

 

Non the less, this thread is de-railing and the conversation is moving beyond my scope.  I too have an SDR Modded HD 800 and I enjoy it, even with a "harsh" eSabre Dac I've never found them to be... harsh. Well that's a lie they are, but most of the time a harsh sound is the result of a poorer master, I do have to hunt for better recordings from time to time and sometimes there are none.

 

The Utopia never impressed me, great detail and depth but the bass didn't sit well with my given the price. I'll likely "top out" with the HD 800 before I chase after a Utopia set up, either way getting back to the Elex all posted impressions and measurements suggest it should really be a stellar performer! Here's to hoping it follows through

 

 

[Mshenay]

3 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

...or we can also say that headphones and speakers are apples and oranges and call it a day maybe? 

 

I mean, we can go on like this literally forever 

 

Speakers vs headphone really can go on forever, an I'm not qualified to debunk any myths for either side. Here's to trying to steer this conversation back to the Elex!!! 

 

22 minutes ago, GUTB said:

After having heard the Utopia's superb Beryllium drivers I can't really recommend a lesser dynamic. Go Beryllium or go home.

 

I have a $5.4k amp and $2.5k speakers. The realism, dynamics and resolution of the Utopias running through a $800 Mjolnir 2 makes a mockery out of my speaker setup. That's just a fact. I have no idea how much a competitive speaker system would cost -- certainly well into the five figures at least.

 

Yea that said, I can't say I really LOVED the Utopia but even out of a cell phone it was pretty stunning, Focal's reputation standing I don't think this will be another "flavor" of the month headphone like the Elear was. Massdrop has consistently delivered excellent sounding products at amazing prices, which is the result of feed back from users in the community before launch. An with the launch of the CLEAR I think Focal figured out what improvements were needed for it's...non-flagship headphone. 

 

That said, I'm pretty confident this one will be worth the recommendations it get's. The Elear is not and was not a headphone worth owning...  despite what Tyll says I didn't like it and only recommend to people who ONLY want to own a headphone and NEVER anything else... EVER. Other wise if you plan to buy even a basic Dac/Amp there are better options 

 

The Elex with Massdrops Development and by ear tuning tweaks behind it should really blow the competition away! Much like the HE 4XX and HD 6XX and TH X00 have done. 

[Mshenay]

1 minute ago, crenca said:

 

I don't share your confidence Mshenay, but we both are speculating of course.  Do the "damping" tweaks really fix the Elear's significant frequency response issues in this Elex version?  I also think the Elear is a great HP -IF (and only if) you are willing and able to EQ/DSP it back into shape.

 

I don't like the HD6XX either for all the usual HD650 reasons.  The HE 4XX (which I am listening to right now) is defiantly worth $169 and then some...

 

Well from the brief time I spent with the HD 6XX I felt it was worth wile, though I too personally prefer the HE 4XX over the HD 6XX  but my tastes are not reflective of every ones. An you could be right, still the measurements alone show an increase in upper mid range response as well as a decrease in low frequencies, this should result in quite a boost to the presence of instruments. This lack of presence is what I found so off putting about the Elear. 

 

 

 

[Mshenay]

I'll be frank, I don't really recommend any of the Sennhesier line outside of the HD 25-1 ii [or what ever it's called now] and that's because of it's durability only [and even that I listen to with a deep, thin sharp dip at 8.4khrz] and the HD 800. I've owned the HD 600 in the past and I quite liked it but not enough to keep it! I can't say I discourage people from buying the HD 6XX because it has it's merits as some will like the little hump but I don't... 

 

Either way I don't own a single open back can of theirs outside of the HD 800 because I just don't like any of them enough compared to other options. A shame to hear that even Tyll wasn't a fan of the 660s... 

 

As for Sennhesiers lack of innovation, Focals now three models in the $1000ish price point may push them to change things up a bit... hopefully! The HD 800 with an SDR mod is impressive as others have said but having to mod a headphone or pay more for the "corrected" model that in reality has more distortion than it's predecessor [if you consider the HD 800 as the predecessor to the more costly 800S] hardly seems like the right thing to do to continue to dominate any market

[Mshenay]

2 hours ago, buonassi said:

 

yes, same driver diaphram, different impedances, different voice coil too - one is wound and formerless while the other is solid copper.  Can't remember which is which tho. 

 

That makes sense, same driver but different dampening, different voice coils and a difference in impedance. I tend to forget the voice coil is just as important as the driver it self. An likely the dampening and Voice Coiling scheme +Pads from the Clear may have been adapted for use with the Elear driver, resulting in what looks very much like a mix of the two!

 

Very well put, plus that final $699 price was killer. Now we just need some ears on a pair!