The ultimate cables can/can't - only $80,000

[Speed Racer]

Why bother posting the topic at all if you are going to restrict the discussion so much?

[Speed Racer]

I am a music lover, not an audiophile, and I have no issues with analog equalizers that are built properly.

[Speed Racer]

3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

You are painting with the broadest brush possible. The OP said nothing that should lead you to believe he is an anti-vaxer type. He asked for real information and said opinions really didn't matter. I don't know what more he could do. It seems like you are locked into a belief and if someone mentions a product such as a cable, your auto-reply kicks in with a comment that isn't helpful. 

 

Asking how a product could work and excluding opinions, is about as close as you can get to someone who should be in your camp.

 

I am sorry, but nobody that has posted here has posted anything other than an opinion. Some of them better educated than others, but just opinions nonetheless. 

 

That’s why I commented initially that the scope was too restrictive. But hey, this is the only forum I know that gives that much power and control to the thread starter. All it does is allow the OP to prevent post that don’t agree with what they want to hear. 

 

Laughable......

[Speed Racer]

Like I said, this thread was doomed from the first post. No one here really knows for sure what this product is really doing. The only people that actually know will lie to your face to sell it to you. 

[Speed Racer]

6 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

He said he posted because he wanted to learn something. In other words asking for help.

 

No one here knows enough about the product to provide an education. All they can do is guess......

[Speed Racer]

5 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

The issue really breaks down into 2 questions, doesn't it?

 

1. What does it do ?

2. Can it possibly be worth $80,000 ?

 

I think the lowy EE's have figured out #1 (as have some others) and that #2 is pretty obvious.

 

Unless someone has access to the schematics of the internals of that device, no, the EE's have not figured it out #1 nor has anyone else. Everyone is guessing what it does. #2 all depends on how much money you have and what you perceive the benefit being.

[Speed Racer]

7 minutes ago, sdolezalek said:

 

If that is really what you think about the sophistication and expertise of the regulars on this site, it probably isn't worth your time to hang out here.  If all you are saying is that we don't know what's in the box, I'd still suggest that you re-read some of the posts more carefully.  On the other hand, if you can contribute additional data that would educate all of us to what these boxes do, please do so.  

 

The web site for the product is extremely vague as to what the product actually does and does not explain how it does whatever it does. I looked. I downloaded everything from the site on the products. All quite vague with no discussion of actual implementation. There certainly was no discussion of IP.

 

So, no, I can't contribute additional information because there is none. It's basically a black box that does something they claim improves the sound coming out of the speakers. Is it just an equalizer? Does it impedance match? What else might it do to improve the sound? There are not enough details out there to really answer any of those questions.

 

Finally, you don't get to tell what I can do......not anymore than I can tell you what to do.

[Speed Racer]

I almost feel left out since he has not insulted my system yet!

[Speed Racer]

24 minutes ago, CuteStudio said:

 

I think that is an easy thing to say, but the problem space is bounded so we can deduce some aspects of the device function even without measurements or schematics by merely sticking to known laws of physics and where it is connected. We also have the manufacturers instructions and data - which I assume you have also read - which has knobs for treble, mid and bass which points toward some type of bandpass filter.

 

We can also deduce that it's not an active device.

 

Furthermore we know we have a speaker level signal IN and a speaker level signal OUT - probably matched to a nominal 8 ohm load with possibly a lower driving impedance IN (from the amp) so we know any effect it has must probably involve either loading the input and/or a series pass for the output which further bounds the problem space.

 

 So this limits the options. It could have a transformer or variac in there, although the aluminium case suggests not, it is possible. This could 'gear down' the signal to drive the speaker more effectively - a bit like using the 4ohm terminals on a tube amp to drive 8ohm speakers - but I suspect the complexity and cost of doing this well is outside the bounds of such a box and it's market at whatever the price: anyone doing a variac for that would I suspect advertise it as such: no need to hide that one.

 

Which leaves us with a possible ferrite/inductance for RF (although it's at the wrong end - RF stoppers should be at the amp end if you imagine the wire as an aerial), a resistor to load the amp and thus flatten the impedance curves or a speaker level tone control. 

 

Looking at the knobs and the description I think we may be looking at a tone control with some parallel resistance, a bit like an adjustable wideband crossover. Not only are traditional speaker crossovers evil, nasty things that the purist would dispense with in favour of multi-amping from a proper digital crossover fed from the digital source, but an additional filter in the worse possible place could not possibly improve fidelity, only worsen it.

 

The issue of filtering at speaker level (this filter and crossovers) is that you are dealing with high currents which need high quality inductors and capacitors - something most speaker makers fail at. The idea of putting $80k of filter - even using solid silver inductors with air cores and arrays of silver mica capacitors to raise quality - in front of a speaker crossover which will have cost considerably less - even in the top price speakers from real firms - is self defeating, and they may also interact badly.

 

Remember each capacitor in the signal path and each joint and each inductor adds problems to the signal, adding a generic 'one size fits all' filter with knobs on cannot improve the sound as long as we stick with traditional laws of physics, engineering and the known data about placement and the manufactures data on the device.

 

Ergo: we do know #1 and for any electronic engineer it's pretty plain that it's not going to do any good, simply for the reasons explained above. I hope this sheds a little light on the rather dim view that any person knowledgeable in electronics has of it, it's really not prejudice, we have seen, we have judged, we have concluded - it's not going to work.

 

 

All that to state the obvious and you are just guessing about the rest......

[Speed Racer]

Like I said: guessing......

[Speed Racer]

I think it is a misspelling.....I think they meant "discrete".