Does a DAC need a pre-amp

[plissken]

To flip this a bit:

 

What posters are saying is that the volume control via software is a decimating control that reduces the bit-depth as you turn the volume down in the player application. 

 

Good analog controls don't do this.

 

What I did is get a DAC in the first place that didn't force me into such a compromise because by the time you take the price of the iFi and add a decent external analog attenuation to it you could have taken that entire budget and just purchased a unit that had it all in. 

 

Many others and myself have been able to do this because we are just down to one source: A computer. My Emotiva DC-1 has both fixed output and pre-amp mode. It's pre-amp mode uses it's own inbuilt analog ladder. 

 

A lot of pro-audio interfaces get this right also. Heck even my now 'ancient' 2008 EMU-1212M PCIe that I picked up for $85 NIB, via it's virtual mixer had a non-decimating volume control. I'm surprised that modern audiophile products are designed the way they are and still somehow command a steep price for the shortcomings. 

[plissken]

Bottom line is if you purchased a DAC with fixed output, many software players are going to offer suboptimal, decimating volume controls.

 

The fact that my 9 year old EMU 1212M would most likely use the iFi DAC to mop the floor shouldn't be lost on people here.

 

If a card that I picked up for $85, with balanced I/O, AES/EBU, ADAT, SE output, Non-decimating volume control in .5 dB stepping has all this why couldn't it be in a $349 DAC? 

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20 minutes ago, esldude said:

Are there still lots of software players that control volume this way? 

 

Most will switch to at least 32 bit float or 64 bit and then put out a volume reduced 24 bit data stream.  Those aren't really causing much of an issue at all.  One could say this eventually causes lowest recorded details to be low in level, but with 24 bit gear which at best approaches 20 bit performance you'll have such effects down in the noise floor anyway.  So no real difference than if you did analog attenuation for practical purposes.  Well except perfect channel to channel tracking at lower volumes when done digitally. 

 

Some do, some don't. 

 

But I guarantee you that if you didn't do your research and purchased a DAC with only fixed level outputs you are playing roulette. Now on the other hand if you purchased a DAC that has it's own volume control then the playback application volume sits at 100% and you manage it down stream. 

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1 hour ago, GUTB said:

 

When was the last time you compared an old PCI card’s audio processor to a modern audiophile DAC? To a quality preamp?

 

I have a quality pre-amp...  for christ's sake I only listed it a few times in this thread. 

 

I'd put my EMU 1212M up against the iFi DAC2 doing PCM any day of the week you want to sit for it blind. 

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8 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

You say that with a complete lack of irony, don’t you?

 

He says it because it's true. You seem to misunderstand almost all the technical underpinnings of this hobby. I shudder as to what your setup sounds like. 

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7 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

I think the Mytek uses digital volume control of the Sabre and doesn’t have an analog mode.

 

I rest my case....

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10 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

I understand them to a greater degree than you at least who seems more interested in class warfare.

 

You have more limited means...or you don’t place a high priority on sound. Either way, you’ve chosen to spread misinformation about audio. You have an audience for that amongst the non-audiophiles here but don’t be put out if I show up every once in a while to hit it with reality.

 

You couldn't keep up with me on your best day...