IS EVERYTHING DEBATABLE, REALLY?

[Speed Racer]

3 minutes ago, GUTB said:

1s and 0s don’t exist anywhere in your digital playback chain. There are analog square waves.

 

Really? When they go through any DDC or USB hub or USB regeneration device they are certainly ones and zeroes. When the DAC receives the digital data, it is ones and zeroes.....

[Speed Racer]

Just now, opus101 said:

 

Logic '1' and '0' are just abstractions existing in the minds of observers and designers. Digital data is actually received in voltage levels.

 

Duh. The point is that the data aren't represented by analog wave forms inside digital circuits....

[Speed Racer]

5 minutes ago, opus101 said:

Sure they are - no 'digital waveforms' exist, only digital interpretations of analog waveforms.

 

'Data' is just an interpretation placed on various analog waveforms.

 

Just now, GUTB said:

 

There is no such thing as a "digital" circuit. A digital circuit is no different from an analog circuit. Both are simply wires carrying electricity. The difference is in how the currents are oscillated — as a square wave or by a sine wave. Square waves aren’t really square either, but rather very fast rise-fall times which are useful because transistors can easily differentiate between a -v and +v state even if badly mangled by noise. A very complex and high speed network of transistors allow designers to abstract a mathematical system on top of it, but from beginning to end, 1s and 0s have no part in any of it.

 

You guys need to remember how processors work. Look up "Binary Code". Then look how chips works. They don't use analog waves. 

[Speed Racer]

1 minute ago, opus101 said:

 

This part isn't correct - analog circuits can just as easily carry square waves.

 

Neither "part" is correct. This would be funny if it weren't so sad.....

[Speed Racer]

You guys are too funny.  How do chips store and more data around inside the chips? It's not with analog wave forms...

 

PAM5 is used over network wiring. That's not what I am talking about.

[Speed Racer]

Oh, Tony. Let's be real clear. Bits don't spontaneously flip very often in hardware or software. But, we have to take into account that it does happen so we a variety of systems in place to deal with it. Some at the hardware level and some at the software level. That doesn't change the fact that we don't have analog wave forms pulsing through CPUs, RAM, NAND, gates, DSPs, etc.......

[Speed Racer]

45 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

That’s objectively false.

 

Oscciliscope output of a system board:

 

 

Output of a LAN controller doing PAM5:

 

 

 

We’re not trying to bury you guys in meaningless trivia, we’re trying to break you from a psychological dependency on the imaginary concept of “bits are bits”. Here’s the thing: bits ARE bits, and a 1 is no different from another 1, because as an imaginary concept it doesn’t exist in the real world. Everyone agrees that a 1 is a 1 of something, and our abstraction system is reliable because everyone agrees on it. Electricity is a psychical phenomena, and the concept of data doesn’t apply to electricity. The waveforms output above are 100% analog.

 

 

What don't you understand about the word "inside"???? Do you think data is store and manipulated inside chips as analog wave forms??

 

You and Tony are a little bit scary....

[Speed Racer]

40 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Despite the evidence posted showing an actual waveform stored on an HDD, you still refuse to accept that it doesn't become a binary waveform without quite a bit of further processing.  

 

You will never get it !

 

OMG!! LOL!!!! No, no, no!  Waveforms are not stored on the hard drive. All files are stored as a bunch of bits on the hard drive and whether the bits are ones or zeros is controlled by whether or not they are magnetized.

 

Are you really that ignorant of how data is stored?

 

 

[Speed Racer]

14 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Experienced DIY people are able to negate most of such problems by extensive listening over a period of time and becoming quite used to the sound, then reversing the modification to it's previous state, where any differences will usually be noticed immediately, and not always in favour of the modified version.

 

Why would "experienced DIY people" be any less susceptible to expectation  or confirmation bias than any other person? Because DIY people are special? Give me a break. That's just another example of elitism...

[Speed Racer]

There is nothing less impressive than the CV of a retired person.....

[Speed Racer]

Just now, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Do you try not to make sense? You now add ageism to your negativity list? And YES that is very negative.

 

Here, I will use your strategy:

 

Who said anything about old people?

[Speed Racer]

By the way, I am retired.....but I am not old!

[Speed Racer]

Just now, sandyk said:

 

 Other than perhaps your CV ?

 

My CV is boring. It only has Apple and the company I started.....and sold that allowed me to retire at 49.

[Speed Racer]

4 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Are we supposed to be swayed in some way by this and why is yours or anyone else's CV less impressive once retired -  " nothing less impressive than the CV of a retired person.....

 

Like I said, my CV is boring....CV's are generally boring....and the CV of a retired person is almost always boring because it is no longer very relevant.

[Speed Racer]

Hell, CV's are generally irrelevant! Degrees often are too. I remember when I was at Apple and the powers that be would hire hotshot Berkley CS grads that knew a lot but very little to nothing about personal computers and how they were being used in the real world.

[Speed Racer]

2 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Are you thinking before you write this stuff?

 

Of course....at least as much as you are before you post...

[Speed Racer]

2 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 IF you are so highly qualified, why don't you design and construct a good part of your own equipment ?

Too lazy perhaps ?

I have E.E. friends that at least design and construct their own DACs, preamps and Power Amps etc. as well as design  improved X Over networks for their commercial speakers.

 

Who said anything about being qualified to design hardware? I was a software guy that got into networking and Internet crap.

[Speed Racer]

3 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Okay so degrees are often irrelevant and so are CV's from retired people that are speaking from experience.

So what is relevant?

 

 

Here's the deal. You somehow think that your education and experience make you more of an authority than other people here. That your opinion carries more weight. I suspect that most people don't give a rat's ass about that. You may have a some information here and there from your education and work experience that is useful. But, for the most part, this hobby we have is dominated by information learned through experience with the hobby itself.  

[Speed Racer]

2 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

In that case then , you are no more qualified to disparage posts about Audio by other members , regarding hardware improvements, power supplies ,  Regens etc. than  Ralf 11 is !!!

It doesn't seem to stop you though !

 

Qualified? I am qualified to anything I damn well please.