HRT Streamer II asynch update?

[Richard Dale]

 

I found this HiFi+ Review of HRT Streamers interesting:

 

 

 

Last year, the Streamer was a good, relatively cheap addition to the USB DAC world and the Streamer+ was the one with the really good sound. Now, the basic Streamer II gets the really good sound and the Streamer II+ raises the bar still further. Which means the basic model leapfrogs over the performance of last year’s Streamer+. That’s not just down to the 24/96 processing. A lot comes down to the asynchronous USB connection.

 

 

And the original Streamer+ got really good reviews. I'm certainly really happy with my II+, but it seems you get what you pay for and expensive DACs like the Ayre QB-9 are actually better than even the HRT Streamer Pro. I think the II+ is perfect for someone like me who already has a pretty good CD player and doesn't want to buy a DAC that is a 'headache' in any way, but doesn't want to waste money before they are really clued up. It is easily good enough to listen to while you 'debug' all the computer music stuff like which computer to use, the hard disk, ripping and backup strategies and so on.

 

 

[Tipper]

I tend to hang on to what I consider to be a healthy degree of skepticism when I read product reviews by “professional2 reviewers. After all it has been “professional” reviewers in the past for example, that attempted to persuade us, the buying public, that forking out for interconnects and speaker cables in the £500 + bracket would give “noticeable sonic improvements” over a reasonably priced properly constructed multi strand cable for example. Fortunately such claims are finally being shown to be complete nonsense.

However, the review was well enough written.

I haven’t heard the HRT Music Streamer + yet, but I have a more affluent mate who is about to order one having heard the HRT 11 in my system.

Despite a bit of tinkering and voltage matching I still get what I consider to be an unacceptable amount of noise listening to the HRT through my headphones and headphone amp. I’m not sure what to attribute this too. It isn’t there when I use a CD player so maybe the technology used by the HRT to prevent noise from the computer from passing through the Music Streamer needs some further development. Maybe it’s a problem with my kit. My limited understanding of the HRT is that the signal is dropped and then re-amplified, dumping the noise in the process. I think I may ask HRT, they seem a very approachable bunch with unusual interest in how their products are received by the end user.

Back to the review, I should hope the DAC Alan Sircom compares to the HRT 11+ model costing ~ £2000 easily outperforms the HRT. But, does it outperform it by £1700? I have my doubts. I can see this as an ongoing problem as technology moves forward and some of the arrant nonsense spouted by the Hi end Hi Fi media is proven to be exactly that through objective testing.

 

Edit. Noise seems to be from one channel only so i would guess its a headphone amp problem which is good news in one respect but on the other hand it means getting the welding kit out .

 

[phoneman]

How would a toslink cable from my sound card to my Marantz SR7000 receiver compare to using the HRT to same receiver? Would using the D/A converter in the receiver compare to using the HRT.

 

[Tipper]

I suppose I can stick my neck out here

I have to state very clearly here that I dont KNOW how it will sound because;

a)I dont know the receiver

b)All I know about the sound card is from other people I know who have it primarily for gaming.

Having made that clear I hope I'm going to do a bit of guessing.

The soundblaster X Fi Extreme is not noted as a particylarly good card for straight Hi Fi audio.

I believe the Marantz SR7000 had a better reputation for its DAC stage than for its amplification. However, it's fairly old technology now.

I have heard the Asus Xonar in a friends system playing into an Audiolab 800s which in its day was a very competent amp, probably a step up from the Marantz. He now has a V-DAC and he prefers the V-DAC to the sound card but that's using it from a USB.

However, we both agreed that the HRT had a slight edge both in his system and in mine.

So, if the Asus is in fact better than the Soundblaster then it would look like the HRT may have the edge on the options you mention but a lot will depend on the amp stage in the Marantz.

Sorry I cant be more helpfull.

 

[Richard Dale]

 

Tipper: "..I tend to hang on to what I consider to be a healthy degree of skepticism when I read product reviews by “professional2 reviewers. After all it has been “professional” reviewers in the past for example, that attempted to persuade us, the buying public, that forking out for interconnects and speaker cables in the £500 + bracket would give “noticeable sonic improvements” over a reasonably priced properly constructed multi strand cable for example. Fortunately such claims are finally being shown to be complete nonsense.

However, the review was well enough written.."

 

 

 

Well I have to disagree with you here as I've spent about 500 pounds on Cardas cables to go with my HRT Streamer II+ and think the combination sounds really good. Cheap cable tends to sound like cheap cable to my ears, in the systems I've owned - grainy and low resolution. All the same, I would love to be able to try out about 10 cheaper interconnect cables in case there was one as good as Cardas Clear Light for a quarter the price.

 

 

 

I was still looking forward to reading a review be a professional reviewer to put the HRT in context. I haven't got any other DACs to try out to compare with it, and so it was nice to get some sort of feel for what I would get by spending 2000 euros or more on a DAC. A bigger sound stage and more refinement it seems. In my case there are a lot of things I should spend my money on, before getting a DAC like that, but it is nice to dream..

 

 

 

I'm not getting any computer noise from the MacBook I have connected to the HRT. I think the II+ is supposed to have a better S/N ratio than the II, but I don't know if that can be heard in practice. The biggest irritation I have is that my Magnum Dynalab FT101A FM tuner is unusable with the HRT switched on - it pumps out a lot of RFI and I get a load of 'birdies' whistling noise and have to switch off the DAC everytime I listen to the radio. Annoying, as I think the HRT takes quite a long time to warm up again.

 

 

[Audio_ELF]

Richard commented... "Well I have to disagree with you here as I've spent about 500 pounds on Cardas cables to go with my HRT Streamer II+ and think the combination sounds really good. Cheap cable tends to sound like cheap cable to my ears, in the systems I've owned - grainy and low resolution. All the same, I would love to be able to try out about 10 cheaper interconnect cables in case there was one as good as Cardas Clear Light for a quarter the price."

 

It maybe true that a £330 DAC (the Streamer II+ RRP) and a £500 cable sounds good - but how does it compare to a £800 DAC and £30 cable?

 

Eloise

 

[Richard Dale]

 

Eloise: "..It maybe true that a £330 DAC (the Streamer II+ RRP) and a £500 cable sounds good - but how does it compare to a £800 DAC and £30 cable?.."

 

 

 

I think that would be a really interesting test. The HRT review mentioned that the Streamer II had a slightly grainy sound, which the II+ didn't have. My suspicion is that a 30 pound cable would have a coarse, grainy sound and make an 800 pound DAC sound like a Streamer II. I also would guess that you could buy a cable for 100 pounds that didn't suffer from that graininess. Only actual listening tests with a high resolution system would be able to tell us. As far as I can see, most DACs are either about 300 pounds and under or 900 pounds plus. There don't seem to be that many in between.

 

 

 

I didn't buy a new interconnect for my HRT straight away, only a Cardas USB cable for 90 pounds as I didn't have any sort of USB cable. I listened at first with the Siltech ST-38 cables that I have been using in my system for the past 12 years or so. It isn't a budget cable, but maybe there are 100 pounds cables that you can buy today that will outperform it, I don't know. I found that the HRT was nearly on a par with my Marantz CD player, but that the bass was a little loose and the imaging wasn't quite right. I felt that going the extra mile by spending 400 pounds on a Cardas Clear Light would take the DAC to the next level (ie more similar to a 800 pound DAC). Then instead of the HRT being a temporary stop gap solution, it would be good enough to not need replacing anytime soon. And that's how a feel it is sounding at the moment. I would need a room with better acoustics, and then bigger speakers before I need a new DAC.

 

 

 

Then once I replace the HRT with a 2000+ euro DAC, the Cardas interconnect will still be well up to the standard of the expensive DAC. The Cardas didn't make the Siltech sound grainy - the difference was better dynamic range, resolution and imaging. A bit like buying a better DAC in fact.

 

 

[phoneman]

I'm still learning and your input is very helpful.

 

[Alan Sircom]

Well aside from comparing the Pro to the QB-9, so the price differential is nearer to £1,400. Yes, it's better. And yes, pre Pro is better than the II+, which is itself better than the II.

 

But sticking with comparing the genus HRT against Ayre, the difference is marked. It doesn't need the covering sentence "...in a high-priced system", the Ayre sounds more open, more musical, more natural, more solid and more dynamic than the HRT, wherever you use it. What's remarkable about the sound of the HRT designs (especially the Pro) is they get something like 70% there for 30% of the money. To get that extra performance (as well as the confidence in owning a DAC that feels like you could kick around a football field, rather than one you feel you could crush like an empty beer can) takes money. The chances are if HRT (or similar) wanted to make a DAC that performed as well as the QB-9, it would cost QB-9 money.

 

That said, Arcam's new rDAC reads deeply impressive on-paper. Wolfson DAC chip (probably an 8741, as Arcam really knows how to implement this), async USB (as well as Toslink and coax)... all for £299 (or £399 with Kleer wifi). That could really shake the USB tree!

 

[Tipper]

Firstly, my humble apologies to HRT and anyone who read my post where I stated the HRT sounded noisy through my headphone amp and headphones. It turns out that the noises I heard were nothing to do with the HRT which does in fact produce zero audible noise in my system.

I converted most of my equipments interconnect terminations to XLR having found in the past XLR a more reliable physical connection than RCA or DIN. The HRT Music Streamer 11 is RCA only and adaptor I used to connect the HRT to the headphone amps XLR socket had a badly soldered earth/screen connection. This is what produced the noise.

 

Also, my apologies to Alan Sircom; you are quite correct, you were indeed primarily comparing the Ayre QB-9 DAC (£1,995.00) to the HRT Music Streamer 11+ (£332.00) and the Pro model (£475.00 without Mini XLR cables or adaptors) and not the £139.00 HRT Music Streamer 11.

Order restored indeed.

Incidentally, I tried standing on the HRT Music Streamer 11 and despite your reservations about its beer can construction it took all my weight with ease; shame about the Tuner.

 

Overall, I’ve been that impressed with the HRT Music Streamer 11 my plans to rob the local Building society to finance the cost of the Music Streamer 11+ have been shelved and I’m upgrading to a city bank in order to finance the Pro model. Not much chance of being able to finance the forthcoming HD HRT considering the sales success of the current models and the unqualified praise they’ve received from the people who have actually gone out and bought them; bound to bump the price up for the audiophile market.

I still find the midrange and the bass to be its strongest points and for the time being I’ve attenuated my loudspeaker midrange drivers by 3db in an attempt to bring the treble up a little. The small bump in the frequency response this gives still keeps the overall speaker response within 8db between 60 Hz and 20 Khz. in theory. Maybe the Pro model will make this unnecessary. It would also be great if future models had a slightly extended frequency response in both directions, say another 2Hz at the bottom and the top brought up to 22Khz. One may not be able to hear an 18 Hz signal but you can certainly feel it and many good pre amps will cope with these frequency extremes. However, the audio industry in general have decided we all hear 20 Hz to 20 KHz and the majority of affordable Hi Fi have these limitations.

One other problem I’ve found is that the RCA sockets on the Music Streamer 11 are very close together and this has meant that some of my RCA plugs won’t fit side by side.

 

I’ve already started to build a new all aluminum enclosure with separate fully screened compartments for my current headphone amp, a T class amp with separate power supply which I’m in the process of building and the hopefully soon to be acquired HRT Pro. It will have full sized XLR sockets (avoiding the silly price Cardas charge for their plugs and wires) and soldered USB connections.

 

I’ve had 35 years of oversized and overpriced boxes (around 35% of the total production cost apparently) with a hand full of usually cheap components chucked in cluttering up my living area.

Over the past few years I have managed to reduce the volume of my music replay components by around 80%. Out went the Linn and Thorens record decks with their separate power supplies and pre amps along with various amps I have built or bought over the years. I sold all my records along with their pops and clicks; a lot less stress when my friends bring their kids around and they head towards all those interesting looking gadgets with their sticky little fingers outstretched. The CD player and Tuner have gone. If I could overcome this modding addiction I could get rid of another half a cubic metre of tools, test equipment, assorted wires etc.

 

What do you mean I won’t be able to impress my friends with a vast array of shiny boxes with all those knobs and glittering lights anymore?

 

It’s supposed to be about the music right?

 

Isn’t it?

 

I know, I’m an affluent eye candy loving audiophile’s nightmare

 

 

[bikemig]

A few months ago I set up a system for my home office that I am very happy with. I have the audioengine n22 amp and P4 speakers. I thought the sound using the audio out from my mac laptop was very good. I wanted to use the system for a few months before buying a dac. I settled on the hrt music streamer ii for the reasons given in a number of posts on this site (it's hard to beat the combo of great sound plus a very reasonable price) plus the reviews I read online. I have had the HRT streamer running for a few days and I am very impressed. It makes a clear difference in what I am able to hear from my music files. Where it really makes a difference, interestingly enough, is when using the headphone amp on the n22 and listening to streaming video (such as netflix). Before I purchased the streamer, I would hear weird background noise. Now I didn't hear those noises when listening to my music files. But with the streamer now in my system, the audio from streaming audio has improved immeasurably. I'm not sure what the cause of the problem was but I am very happy with the streamer. I have also e-mailed the HRT tech support support and they are very prompt and very helpful. All in all, it was a pleasure doing business with the company.

 

[znorter]

Do you think we must change manually (and restart iTunes!) every time the file has different resolution?

Or...is it possible to delete MIDI SET UP and leave iTunes and the streamer II do the job automatically?

 

What is the last firmware for the II version (not +) asynchr. Usb ?

 

Thankz

 

 

[znorter]

To post many questions without search very well inside the forum...but...

Anyway, Mr. Halverson is so fast and gentle that I want to use some words to thank him and his all answers he wrote to me.

If I can leave althought a "news" here, the last firmware for the gear is the v1.7, the CTO of HRT said this yesterday...

Yes, iTunes must be restarted every time there is a different file resolution...after setting up the MIDI App, of course.

Bye.