New John Kenny Power Supply....

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Why don't you all ask jkenny how he proposes to chassis ground chassis made from plastic. 

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24 minutes ago, Les Habitants said:

 

I built a DIY supply using AA size Eneloop NiMH batteries wired in series.

It is not grounded to any chassis, and works fine though only about 6 hours run-time in my application.

So battery supplies such as this are supposed to be chassis grounded then?

 

My point being is he doesn't know what he's talking about. 

 

What does a fully floated supply do for you? What problem do you have that it fixes? If you have said problem how do you know? 

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31 minutes ago, Les Habitants said:

 

I think you answered my question about a battery supply needing a chassis ground with 3 questions? 

 

No, I'm asking you what problem you currently have and how you know. 

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45 minutes ago, Kilauea50 said:

Yes and I am powering the battery with the LPS-1.  It really is a fantastic setup. It plays all day when I am home and have had no issues whatsoever. 

 

And what is driving your LPS-1?

 

What would you say if I told you the LPS-1 doesn't eliminate any 60Hz AC leakage?

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26 minutes ago, Les Habitants said:

To answer @plissken (even though he steered right around my question) my DIY Eneloop supply actually sounds significantly better, more revealing, better low-level detail, greater dynamic contrast, better sound stage focus etc... with the aforementioned penalty in terms of practicality ease of use: every 6 or so hours of run-time it needs a recharge, which does get old though not completely cumbersome.

Is the above indicative of me having identified or solved some sort of "problem" as @plissken referred to it? I don't know, but it sounds better than an iPower despite that need to recharge.

 

What steps have you taken to see what is going on with your setup and have you taken anytime to learn how to assess and measure the output coming out of your DAC?

 

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57 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

57 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

For most people the answer is none. Why do you care so much what other people do?

 

 

It's just a question and I'm not owed an answer. 

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1 minute ago, Superdad said:

 

I would say you are 100% wrong.  

 

I would say you have some measurements to debunk...

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47 minutes ago, Les Habitants said:

Learn how to assess and measure the output of my DAC? Meaning listen to it with my ears?

 

If your approach is to not understand what your system is doing in your room that's perfectly fine. 

 

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19 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

No problem.   Amir was not measuring leakage.  But I won't spoil the tale here.

 

What do you call the 60/120/180 etc sprurie? Why is it 60 Hz? 

 

When is 60/120/180 fundamental and even/odd harmonics not AC leakage or capacitance of some kind? Does the LPS1 prevent AC loop?

What is your interpretation of this?

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

Why would it eliminate leakage in a loop that doesn't involve it? Also why would you draw a conclusion from a single graph? In the absence of a schematic, the graph is meaningless.

 

Alex said it would for starters that it would prevent AC loop through the regen. 

 

I didn't draw a conclusion from an unknown. I know the layout of equipment involved and it's common of a typical setup. 

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2 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

You posted the graph, at the very least post the schematic.

 

I don't have to. Alex said it would stop the AC leakage through the ISOR. It doesn't so far regardless of system topology unless Alex shows us something else. 

 

Isolation means 'To Isolate' ergo break the path of least impedance. 

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3 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

Ok then you are  posting irrelevant and out of context graphs that have absolutely zero meaning without a schematic. 

 

How so? The claim is that it breaks the AC loop. What would a schematic do for you in this instance? 

 

If I have a copper wired streamer or computer and I'm getting AC hum via a loop and I go with your optical isolation method to break the loop why would I need to see your Visio of your network layout? I just need to see the 60 Hz and the harmonics, as a measurement, disappear. 

 

In the two measurements you see this happen with the linear power supply. 

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9 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

You posted the graph, at the very least post the schematic.

 

This is what I'm responding to...

 

You see the two screenshots they are what they are. What's your interpretation? 

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Just now, jabbr said:

 

Do you understand what a floating supply is? This thread is about a battery supply. You are posting graphs that are completely out of context and without a schematic so how could I possibly know what you are even being off topic about?

 

Then by all means let's get back on topic. My advice is simple:

 

J Kenny doesn't know what he's talking about and I would urge members to purchase like product from more reputable sources.

 

He's been banned here twice, the WBF thread I posted shows his stark ignorance. I would hope that would be enough but people will do what they whether rational or not. 

 

If you think your setup is doing something that warrants a floating supply:

 

Get the Behringer UMC204HD, get the cabling needed to go into it's MIC inputs, install ARTA, go from your DAC into the 204HD, use a 0dBFS silent .wav file and inspect what ARTA captures.

 

If you see nothing then that is because the DAC isn't letting anything through and spending $$ on a floated type supply isn't going to net you anything. Jabbr you know as well as I do that these are VOLTAGE devices. If you have no voltage showing up in the FR domain then you have nothing. 

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6 minutes ago, Les Habitants said:

Whats not to "understand" if I swap an iPower for a DIY NiMH battery and the sound improves?

BTW - you still never answered my question about a battery supply somehow needing a chassis ground, or was the entire mention of that by you off-topic/irrelevant to this thread? 

My DIY supply has no chassis ground, does it need one?

 

What I'm saying is J Kenny is developing product, I don't think he's a credentialed engineer. 

 

He started a thread about grounding various components in a star configuration (according to Audio Precision) all without realizing you can not Chassis ground something that doesn't have a groundable chassis. I wouldn't purchase an 'engineered' component from someone displaying that level of incompetence. 

 

I'm in agreement with Kuma that digital assassin is Jkeny/Mmerril in yet another incarnation. 

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I'll offer this to anyone that likes:

 

If you would like to see what your system is doing, I'll make available a small, portable computer with ARTA installed, and the Behringer UMC204HD. 

 

You'll simply pay for shipping both ways and a hold on a CC for the value of the components. When the computer / ADC arrives make the appropriate connections from the output of your DAC.

 

I'll remote into the machine I sent you and run ARTA and we'll go through your system and see what's happening. Open to CONUS members only. 

 

I reserve the right to not ship on a member by member basis if I feel 'hinkey' about said member. 

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7 minutes ago, Les Habitants said:

So not safe to say the insertion of the DIY battery supply has allowed for one less avenue of potential for ground loop or AC leakage? We'd need ARTA, a Behringer 204HD, and a remote session for that?

 

Your description sounds like typical ground loop hum and you've chosen one of a number of ways to mitigate it. You've essentially installed ground lift with a working window of 6 hours. 

 

It's not the way I like to go as it does not represent best practice as grounds are a safety feature. It's better to engineer a proper solution and is generally doable and not at great expense. 

 

Do you have an outlet tester or multi-meter?

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12 minutes ago, Les Habitants said:

I guess I should add for those that might wish to try something along the lines of what I did, there was never any hum at all, before or after inserting the battery.

 

Then its back to a 0dBFS .wav file and and ADC. If the .wav is played and ARTA shows nothing then nothing is what is going on. 

 

If you don't have voltages at certain frequencies then you literally have nothing going on :-)

 

You may have scenario that merits some detailed measurements. Problems are better solved then patched over. 

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4 minutes ago, jabbr said:

The site claims that battery output is unregulated so don't know exactly which combos are used to get to 5v

 

How do they stop the random chemical noise of the batteries at work discharging is what I would want to know. 

 

The chem reaction can be noisy. 

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16 minutes ago, jabbr said:

When using a cheap ADC to measure a DAC another variable is introduced into the system making it more difficult to know whether you are measuring reality vs artifact. 

 

You can isolate by looping the Behringers own DAC into it's AD loop though. The computer could be a laptop that isn't on mains therefore  the Behringer isn't on mains.

 

Not sure what you mean by 'cheap'. the Behringer is bus driven so you could even drive if from the computer driving the persons DAC and since the ground is referenced at pretty much the same potential....

 

Plus computer/ADC would simply be replacing other upstream component(s) and that may actually fix something and tell you more about the issue than if you hadn't. 

 

Basically there isn't a downside scenario that you can come up with that isn't easily dealt with what I'm offering. 

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4 minutes ago, jabbr said:

http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/1133.pdf

 

Learn something new every day: Ni-Cads can be quieter than Cap-Resistor chains IN CERTAIN applications. 

 

Just wanted to make sure that was clearly stated. Interesting read, thanks. 

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2 minutes ago, jabbr said:

You are using it as a spectrum analyzer. Are HP/Agilent/Keysight just a huge waste   of $$$? Comparative  specs?

 

Is the Behringer / Arta incapable of reading voltages up to 20Khz? 

 

Last time I checked HP/Agilent/Keysight were scopes in the 100's of MHz range. 

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48 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

I just posted the first of the proof over in the ASR thread.  Go there.

 

BTW way. Thank you. 

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Just now, Superdad said:

 

Gee, you are welcome. 

 

Things (and people) are often more complicated than they seem.  I'd say my father taught me that, but the truth is, like most of us, I had to find out the hard way!   

 

I do a lot of product research because our business depends on the specs the servers, storage arrays, routing and switching fabric metrics, load balancing throughput, SSL / TLS encrypt/decrypt speeds.

 

You are providing a very technical product but you've provided very little to go on other than conjecture. Hopefully this will start changing. 

 

I'll await Amir's response. 

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24 minutes ago, Siltech817 said:

So surprising.

In other words UpTone's own response is no good in your book, and you'll just have to wait and see what Amir says, because after all he is the only "expert" in these matters and of course thats the final word and Amir is always 100% right?

Absurd, and Amir's response can be easily predicted.

 

 

 

Not at all. Amir's benching was the only thing I had to go on. Alex has been promising measurements and theory for years.

 

Given that there shouldn't be any doubt as to whom gets the benefit of.