Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital: MQA HW decoding at reasonable cost

[arcman]

I wrote Bluesound letting them know the S2 is not accepting their "unaltered' signal and converting MQA. I did try USB from macbook and Tidal and the MQA logo lights up. John, at Pro-ject, seems to think there is something in the Bluesound Pass thu that is not letting the S2 think it's an unaltered signal. I'll be curious about Bluesound's response (they are really good at responding) since the Bluesound works great with the Mytek and meridian MQA dacs (i've read a few reviews and read Bluesound forum) thru Optical and Coax. 

 

Bluesound will probably say its a Pro-Ject issue. Maybe something in the firmware update will address

[arcman]

For those who got the beta firmware, how do you install. I never got instructions. Plus i run osx, not certain if firmware is windows only. 

[arcman]

That stinks. Ill probably put this thing for sale once my preamp returns. Click and pop city. Mqa not working with bluesound. Ill probably get another dac for hi rez and just use th bluesound for mqa. Both digital outs and analog all work at same time which is nice. Pro-ject dropped the ball on this one for non usb

[arcman]

This is frustrating and why MQA will fail with audiophiles. 3 years in and still no NON usb, mid priced dac ( except node2). Terrible

[arcman]

Screw it. The dac should have never went out the door with pops and clicks. Plus reversed dsd channels. I get a couple of hickups..but major ones like these are unascetabe regardless of price

[arcman]

Can somebody send me the windows drivers for the s2. To beat it all, my box did not include a cd. I have a windows computer. Pro-ject has no driver download page. Just email me a [email protected] I can provide a dropbox folder if that helps

[arcman]

Thanks for the files. I got the unit to version 2.11. Pops and clicks much better. The files do install using a windows emulator like Parelle Windows. You get a free trial for 15 days  I’ll probably purchase a license anyway. I have some photo triggers ( I’m a pro photographer) that can only update thru windows

[arcman]

I think MQA is dying a slow death. I also think HDTracks streaming ( starting soon) needs to reconsider the MQA thing and just stream straight hi rez like Qobuz. Even MQA files are too large for cellular thus no benifit. Too much “you need to unfold this to unfold that etc”. Qobuz is great. Plus, for cellular, one can have it automatically lower resolution which still sounds great

[arcman]

1 hour ago, left channel said:

@Jazz55 & @arcman regarding your difficulties streaming MQA through the Bluesound NODE2 via coax to the S2, a Pro-Ject support manager tells me that MQA doesn't work over S/PDIF, and this is something Meridian is working on. But Bluesound must have gotten their coax output to work with other external MQA DACs, or they wouldn't have put up this support page. Comments?

So the MQA over s/pdif that works with MYTEK is not true MQA?

[arcman]

1 hour ago, left channel said:

 

The lead developer has posted exactly that: S/PDIF is not decoded via the XMOS, so a separate S/PDIF decoder would have been necessary but did not fit, and also caused both technical and pricing problems. (On the other hand, he says they are working on a matching streamer. I wonder if they can do the decoding on that end.) 

 

Anyway, comparing the S2 to Mytek products is putting it in "the wrong ballpark", as we say. It compares very well against SMSL products and other sub-$500 boxes that fit in the palm of your hand.

I don't think anyone is comparing a $300 dac with a $1900 one. My deal is, Much like DSD, Pro-ject somewhere should be saying MQA over usb or MQA not available over Tolink/coax. Most would assume, since the Myteks decode MQA over NON usb inputs that the S2 would do the same. Even all the back and forth with John over on Pinkfish. John could have straight out said (unless he does not know himself) that MQA ONLY works over USB. Especially, aftere I specifically asked him

[arcman]

I got my response from John "

I can only guess that it slipped the manual writers attention - also that the almost all users will use MQA via Tidal / Roon etc. which will be USB sources.

SPDIF is really a sub optimal audio interface - if you have the choice then Async. USB is the preferred option."

 

So hopefully all literature gets updated

[arcman]

Since I have my preamp (Rogue RP-5), I am now able to use the S2 as a pure dac. Plus, I also have the analog outs of the bluesound node2 connected as well. The new tubes in my preamp has settled in. The S2 still has a slight edge over the Bluesound Node2 internal dac, at least with my setting, I'm using slow roll off with distortion compensation on. The mids seem to be just a tad silkier with the S2. The highs slightly more "airey". Not in a harsh or "sparkly" kind of way. The low end seems the same as the Bluesound. I'm looking forward to hearing the S2 compared to much higher end dacs (like the Benchmark mentioned early on in this thread). Personally I think MQA is in a bad place right now, so I am not expecting much more, equipment wise, to pop up. I think TEAC will include MQA in their next DAC/network player model updates. MQA may get to the point, like Apple Lossless, to where it is basically free to use for manufacturers (Apple tried the "closed" audio file system and nobody bit 15 years ago). If that's the case, many more options, especially in A/V receivers will appear. 

[arcman]

Good info thanks

[arcman]

4 hours ago, left channel said:

@Narbooty I'm not sure the retailer knows what they're talking about. Mine included a switching power supply with swappable plugs for multiple regions including the USA, and I bought it from a reseller in Germany. I think it's more likely there is a general dearth of stock, not only of this unit but also products like the Amp Box S2, for which I placed an order weeks ago. But as I said above, given all the problems with the first production run, you're probably lucky you don't have a Pre Box S2 Digital just yet.

 

USB 3.0 was likely skipped to help meet the target price. That also one of the reasons MQA decoding will work through USB but not the S/PDIF input: one less part in the BOM, which helps keep the price at about 20% of the Mytek Brooklyn (which is cheapest DAC I know of that will decode MQA through all inputs). As you noted, USB 3.0 offers no SQ improvement but does offer more power, however we've already established that a separate external power source is a better idea anyway. And you'd be hard-pressed to find a USB 3.0 anti-jitter accessory right now. I think iFi added USB 3.0 to their latest product just get attention, without any clear benefits.

Basically, there has only been the one firmware upgrade..correct?

[arcman]

One thing for Mac users...Parallels desktop (includes windows in download) works great with the Pro-Ject firmware update. I believe the basic version is $65 or so. Also, you get a 15 day trial. I purchased the software since I have some photography wireless light triggers that require Windows for firmware updates as well.

 

 

https://www.parallels.com/landingpage/pd/general/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvNys67rX1wIVmLXACh1IEwG5EAAYASAAEgLldfD_BwE

[arcman]

I have now tested the S2 dac with USB hooked to my main roon core (exteneded usb 2 cable "fished " down to main computer in my office which is my Roon core). 

 

Observations Using Roon via ipad and S2 connected to main living room audio system. 

 

- Tidal MQA works great. Roon passes all the data thu. I have not tried an actual MQA download yet. Of course, all DSP settings and any special volume features need to be off for the endpoint MQA will be passed thru. Plus, Exclusive mode needs to be chosen in roon. 

 

-I can only get DSD256 to work, no matter with set up (which is fine). If I pass thru the pure DSD signal (roon option), I get static. If I set roon to DSD over PCM, dsd 256 is max. Of course, I can have roon do a dsd conversion to pcm and the closest khz after conversion will desplay on S2. So with Roon passing thru DSD, I cannot get to DSD512. I believe DSD only works over PCM anyway with the S2.

 

-no clicks, pops, etc with latest upgrade. DSD L/R channels seem to be correct.

 

So now I am pretty happy. I just wish Roon supported Qobuz. But no biggie, I just change the s2 input to coax where I have my Bluesound Node2 connected. 

 

 

 

 

[arcman]

Audio Advisor over here in the US has it now http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PRPRBS2D and Amazon ( I believe Audio Advisor is still the retail outlet).

[arcman]

7 hours ago, left channel said:

 

Thanks for the link! Yes I also found them on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search...

 

I worry they don't have a firmware update installed. Last week Pro-Ject support told me they still don't have the final release.

You are probably right. For many who do not read forums or keep up with such, it could mean quite a few returns if they notice lots of clicking. Hopefully the an update will get posted on their website soon. 

[arcman]

Can anybody verify any differences between 2.11 and final update? It's a booger to reach in and unhook this thing. If 2.12 is just the "released" version of 2.11...I'll probably just leave things alone

[arcman]

Thanks. I will update over the weekend

[arcman]

2 hours ago, Erviins said:

I am using Pre Box S2 Digital for two months. Today I had a chance to evaluate sound quality switching it to 5V power supply from iFi Audio iPower. Before Pre Box was fed from JCAT UCB card which is powered by Sbooster botw p&p eco linear psu. Challenge was to see - if external power supply could do better than ultra clean USB power. As a reference I used 24/192 Robert Ludwig's MasterDisk (Dire Straits) and several DSD files (Diana Krall, Sting, Mike Oldfield). 

 

Summary - there is noticeable improvement in sound quality when quality external power supply is connected to Pre Box S2 Digital DAC. I should admit- it is not big improvement since my dedicated USB card has already clean, noise-less power supply. Sound difference can be described as:

1) more presence - vocal and several instruments moved to me a bit closer in the soundstage (quite a pleasing feeling);

2) muted background - it become more silent increasing clarity of instruments and vocal sounds;

3) precise speed - each note, drums hit had better attack, sharpness (but not sounding harsh), and bass notes were more accurate.

 

Even current power change made my system sound just 2% better, I like such upgrade.

Good info. Thanks for sharing. Were you listening thru headphones or speakers? I bet a headphone listener would probably hear a much bigger difference for such improvements. The IfI still sounds like a great upgrade regardless how one listens

[arcman]

On 1/21/2018 at 9:08 AM, Norton said:

Can anyone confirm that they can play 24/192 over Coaxial to this DAC?  I'm getting terminal stuttering.

Yes. Just PCM, not MQA, DSD, etc. 

[arcman]

My S2 stays on 24 -7. I have long usb cable down to my main studio computer (which stays on 24/7). Plus, I still have wall wart plugged in and hooked to smart circuit to come on with my pre-amp.  I have never had an issue with the S2 with power outages or anything. As a former manufacturing manager for many years, if expectations are not there from the management level, corners can get cut when there is high volume demand that puts pressure on the manufacturing process. In the auto industry, high demand = overtime work which does not guarantee the same workers are doing the same tasks that they were doing during normal business week. The plant must have strict certification processes that allow flexibility with assemblers. I'm not saying this is the case here...but its a normal manufacturing issue that the great companies (Toyota, Honda, etc) have mastered.

[arcman]

If one purchased the power BOX s2, how would one hook to the Prebox. Does the Poer Box come with cables?

[arcman]

I have one of the very first S2 units. It's one of the units that I cannot upgrade the firmware anymore (at least with current installer on Pro-Ject site).I wonder if there is any significant benefit purchasing a new unit that works with current upgrade installers. My unit does not have the "clicking " issue or reverse channels.