WireWorld Starlight CAT 8 cable review

[witchdoctor]

I've had Chord and AudioQuest. The least expensive being $340. No audible nor measured difference.

Furthermore I'm stating that Steven Plaskin can't hear a difference either. Nor Michael Lavorgna. But they won't actually provide anything other than opinion.

If either of them actually sat down for a bias controlled evaluation they would be in deep shit.

 

How can you say that when you are biased? Are you in deep shit too?

[witchdoctor]

Do your movies look more 3D over the Vodka/Diamond? How about photos? More color? Better contrast?

If you streamed something from a service how did it manage to make it 3000 kilometers to you to have the last meter of magic cable fix it all?

 

You remove the jitter from the first 3000 kilometers with the last meter using a great cable. Do you really not know these answers?

[witchdoctor]

If we are talking cable roulette then try it with a bunch of cheap ones to figure out what sounds best. With that said we are talking lengths that are just a few percentage points in length out of the 328 foot spec. That 'should' mean signal integrity is high among them causing the PHY not to work hard.That is unless all the hacking these outfits have done have managed to birth a cable that passes data but fails spec. And if they fail spec and making the PHY work harder and somehow it makes it all the way through the system. Then you have to entertain, in this particular scenario, that you like inferior sound.

Swenson also said he is dubious as to the boutique outfits actually knowing what they are doing in regards to cables.

Witchdoctor is dubious that plissken knows what he is doing regarding cables.

 

You get Voodoo cable or I do voodoo on plissken

 

http://voodoocable.net/product/silverstream-digital-interconnect-rca-or-bnc/

[witchdoctor]

Actually I'm going to be recording some files that should investigate those permutations. Better would be to have it in a live setting with participants.

 

A biased person making recordings, now what's wrong with that picture?

[witchdoctor]

Well thought out input to the process is always welcome. My goal is to construct a long cable, use a $300-400 short cable.

With the fancy cable put the NIC to 10Mbps

With the long run cable put the NIC to 1000Mbps

 

Capture a track with each one and post the tracks.

Let me know what issues you see with the process.

 

Simple, if I made two recordings and posted them on the internet they would sound different to you than they did to me. Even if we had the same equipment we would need to have the same listening volume and the same room and this makes your exercise pointless. You simply need to try cables at home in your own system. Nit a recording of a cable made by some guy on the internet in his system. Again, do I really have to explain this too you? Why don't speaker manufacturers just send you recordings made using their speakers for an audition instead of sending the real thing? duh

[witchdoctor]

The argument being made is the cable affects output. Speaker manufacturers often publish measurements. Either gated or anechoic.

I can offer measurements in-lieu of recordings. People are making claims about what the DAC outputs. I have an ACD with 114dB SNR with which to directly capture the output and see if the claims stand.

Sorry if this is rubbing you the wrong way, but it's time to put these claims to the test.

 

I already put the claims to the test and am enjoying the results every day. Thanks for the offer:)

If you want to hear a recording made with the cables I personally am enjoying use this link:

 

Mapleshade Records - Music

 

This is not any kind of test. If you like what you hear you can audition whatever you want at no risk.

[witchdoctor]

Since this is my thread I'll ask you to either find technical counter arguments and back them up or exit the thread.

 

All you want to do is argue, why would I want to stay in this thread? I'll bet you never even listened to the file I posted did you? As the host of this thread it would seem your "arguments" are weak, you have no way to support your claim by sending recordings around the internet, and you aren't open to a polite invitation to a recording of a track. I was very polite in post 61 and you reply with contempt in post 62. Another sign you can't defend your thesis. I proclaim victory in this "argument" and if I wanted to do a battle using a recording I would just watch a video of a cable on youtube. This is the same speaker I use as height and wide channels in my HT. Listen how awesome it sounds with a good cable. Now would a recording of a cable influence YOU one way or the other? Not hardly right?

[witchdoctor]

What file?

 

Check the link in post #61

[witchdoctor]

In other words, you have no clue how to devise a set of measurements that can confirm what listeners are reporting.

It's as if you think that finding that two pieces of fruit weigh exactly the same confirms that they will taste exactly the same.

 

or if plissken doesn't like mangoes it means nobody will like mangoes

[witchdoctor]

I'm not devising anything to confirm what so ever. My hypothesis is that two ~ equal measure Ethernet cables aren't going to have a measurable difference instrumentation wise. I'm curious what what Rightmark will reveal. I'm also interested in capturing a song or three where part of the song plays with one cable and I swap out the cable during playback and seeing who here can tell me with in the +/- of the buffer size I setup in JRiver when the cable swap happened.

 

I'm most likely going to compare 3 meter expensive to ~30 meter off the spool and terminated by me CAT5e.

Now if all that lines up with my hypothesis then it is what it is. It's starting to sound like the cable proponents are getting a bit nervous.

You do what ever you want to with assorted fruit. Including trying to make an analogy with them.

 

I think you have gone "bananas" over ethernet cables. I recommend just enjoying the "fruit" of the equipment you own now and leave the audiophile cables to connoisseurs who know the difference between cable champagne and "sour grapes" (unless you already ordered the voodoo cables)

[witchdoctor]

And I have asked for just such that, in multiple posts, in this very thread. The protocol has to be public/transparent. It has to invite critical feedback that is addressing short comings.

It's welcome.

 

It's not welcome, you kicked me out of your thread in post 62 after I was polite in post 61.

No worries, just don't get flustered about cables. Use the zip cord or whatever and just enjoy whatever SQ you happen to get.

[witchdoctor]

Here is a thread more suited to your preferred style of posting IMO plissken, have at it. Plenty of doodads to measure.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/group-test-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-gadgets-aq-jitterbug-uptone-regen-ifi-iusb3-0-ipurifier-ipurifier2-intona-w4s-recovery-any-more-%85-31332/#post625574

[witchdoctor]

I think part of the issue is your being selective about events. I simply asked:

 

"Since this is my thread I'll ask you to either find technical counter arguments and back them up or exit the thread. "

 

I'm not interested in your subjective observations. I'm interested in feedback that takes into consideration what I'm proposing and poking holes in it as a way to improve.

 

Since none is currently forthcoming could you please step out of the thread or provide some considered thought as to why my taking and doing some A to D is a problem? Studios that produce music perform A to D every day, all day long:

 

The kid on the drums is just gonzo. Check it out @ 4:30.

 

 

 

Great clip, kids do metal, gives me hope for future musicians

[witchdoctor]

Here we go...

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32823[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32824[/ATTACH]

Oh no, your going to plug in that cable, put that metal youtube video on 11, and blow up your system

[witchdoctor]

Ping results

 

315 foot of off the spool, hand terminate $0.30/ft

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32860[/ATTACH]

 

12 foot WW at $27/ft

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32861[/ATTACH]

 

Is that it? This is the result of your test?

[witchdoctor]

Did I say it was? I just finished wrestling 316 feet of UTP CAT5e into some semblance of manageability and did a few quick tests. Also both cables maintained equal data transmission rates.

This will take me a bit of time to put together. Interesting that the response time and throughput metrics are neck and neck so far.

The client machine is a ASRock QC5000 ITX mainboard with 8GB RAM and 120GB SSD. It's a $59 mainboard. The NIC is the previously mentioned HP Dual GB PCIe server adapter that I picked up for $18 shipped from Amazon.

 

Have fun! I really want a cable like that for my new Sony UHPH1. I plan on doing more steaming than playing actual discs. I am always pleasantly surprised when a cable elevates a midfi priced component to high end (and higher priced) one without having to upgrade. I think my Marantz 7702 would absolutely CRUSH its big brother the 8802 which costs double. All I did was add a nice power cord .

 

I know you like to measure so that id $4000- ($2000 + $120)= a saving of $1880 and better SQ to boot!

[witchdoctor]

I know you just typed a lot. But I don't know what you are saying.

 

That's OK, everyone else understands.

Please remember to conduct a subjective unsighted listening test with someone other than yourself and post the results.

[witchdoctor]

I like having data but look how difficult this is. You got one guy acting as a quasi scientist and a bunch of other guys kibbitzing. Do you realize these cables generally come with a 30 day return policy and you just plug it in, listen, and see if you like it?

Plissken, that unsighted subjective listening test requires little effort and two ears and a brain are excellent scientific instruments.

[witchdoctor]

Plissken the problem you have is you conducted your test AFTER stating your prejudice. This is an attempt to prove you are right rather than an actual quest for truth. I can't imagine (ever) you publishing anything that contradicts your deep seated fears (however logical) about digital cables. However there is still a possibility you may find a way so I am not ready to give up on this thread yet. If you still want to do a recording try posting an A/B comaprison video to yourtube.

[witchdoctor]

Thanks for letting me know my posts may seem hostile to plissken, I will tone it down. However I am sincere in looking forward to his experiment.

[witchdoctor]

No, I've stated a hypothesis based on my current understanding about how Ethernet works, about how non-realtime OS's work (multiple copy stack), and based on a few cursory articles:

 

www.ti.com/lit/an/slyt512/slyt512.pdf

 

www.hottconsultants.com/pdf_files/june2001pcd_mixedsignal.pdf

 

 

All give some insight into how this works and why I'm discounting some of the bogey men that are paraded about.

 

AND I'm 100 willing to be proven wrong.

 

What would it take to show you are throwing punches @ shadows.

 

Do my posts appear hostile? Just curious.

[witchdoctor]

Not hostile. Just lacking for content other than the 'feels'.

 

The purpose behind me posting the test setup (computer, NIC card, switch, cabling, measurements that I'm starting to take etc...) is so it's out of my hands as far as any of my own innate biases in the matter. The D/A will be my Emotiva Stealth DC-1 and the A/D will be the EMU 1212M PCIe. All balanced cabling.

 

There are some bumps that I would like to get around and one of those is when NIC teaming with Intel's implementation you have to have interfaces set at the same speed etc...

 

What I wanted to do measurement wise is give the 12 foot $330 cable every advantage. That is compare to a ~315ft cable. Run the PHY for the $330 WireWorld at either 10 or 100, run the PHY for the 315ft CAT5e Berk-tek at 1000.

 

Well I guess its as good a place as any to start. As for "feels" I don't know there is an objective standard for how any cable will sound in every system universally. Not everything that can be measured matters and not everything that matters can be measured. My key measurement is value. I measure value as $/>SQ. Let me know if you have any questions, I know you didn't understand my last post

[witchdoctor]

A cable can not sound anything that it does not measure. This misplaced belief that we don't know what measure for is problematic. Sorry just don't agree with your popular sentiment regarding cables and the effected output.

 

Because if what you say is true then blinded testing would prove the measurement wrong. And this hasn't happened yet. Look to the infamous 'Chris Wiggles' experiment were he had an audiophile with a $500,000 system couldn't reliably tell $30,000 in cables from $100.

 

We each have to consider that our own view points are wrong before there can be meaningful movement. I'm birthing a setup that will give a $330 / 27ft cable every advantage. If it all nulls out then it all nulls out. If it doesn't then we have something to figure out how to measure for.

 

While I admire the passion you have for your hypothesis I tend to align more with the hypothesis of Harman International. They always conduct both subjective and objective testing. If all you needed were objective measurements why would they bother doing subjective testing? Their method seems to work for them and it seems to work for me too.

[witchdoctor]

Harman conducts subjective testing for preference. Not difference... They then collate and quantify the subjective preference. You really aren't getting the significance.

 

You make a claim as to know how and why Harman tests. Is it because:

 

A) You work at Harman as a tester

B) You have been a paid consultant, engaged by Harman on their testing processes

C) You made it up

Anything other than A or B equals C.

[witchdoctor]

Harman conducts subjective testing for preference. Not difference... They then collate and quantify the subjective preference. You really aren't getting the significance.

 

So you are saying that people might prefer a component that measures poorly over one that measures well? How is that possible? Why would Harman not know that is impossible? I think you just shot yourself in the foot with that last post.