AudioQuest adds MQA Support to Dragonflies via firmware

[DarwinOSX]

I went with a Meridian Explorer 2. I was going to buy a Dragonfly Red to have something at home and work but am just going to get another Meridian. It is a much more powerful device and not that big.

 

After reading all of the above comments I decided to go with the Explorer 2 rather than the Dragonfly. Given that they are the same price, the advantages I see (hopefully I've got this right):

 

1. More powerful, so can go to 192 vs 96

 

2. It is a Meridian product, so I would expect that they make sure it runs perfectly and would support it.

 

3. The design with a mini usb cable connected to your computer greatly reduces the risk of damage if you walk away with your headphones on. You have 3 connectors which can pull out protecting your hardware from damage: the headphone jack, and the connections on both ends of the usb cable.

 

4. I am suspicious of the statement that they are waiting "until Tidal has a resolution for their buffering issue". Blaming the other guy doesn't give me much confidence. Particularly since my explorer 2 came in yesterday and is working perfectly. So why does the explorer 2 work and the dragonfly does not?

[DarwinOSX]

1 hour ago, Hank Denters said:

My guess is that Audioquest are waiting for TIDAL to enable MQA Master Quality on mobile devices. This service untill now is reserved for its desktop application.

 

Why would that be necessary?

The Meridian Explorer 2 works fine on its own although it is a more powerful device and bigger.

The Dragonfly is also used for laptops etc.

[DarwinOSX]

2 hours ago, GUTB said:

I believe it's because the Explorer 2 either has a decoder chip built into it, or it's controller is powerful enough to run the software decoder without the need of the application to unfold it first. The Red has a very low-power, low-performance controller that will need to work with the software to unfold the stream first. The Red does NOT have the space for the decoder chip.

But, also, I don't believe the Explorer 2 can be used with a mobile? I know for sure it won't work with iPhones/iPads (I tried it).

I don't think anything has a special MQA decoder chip even the Meridian 2 but that they work with whatever processing power and software they have.

I've read various things about how much of an unfold the Red will do.  Some say the full unfold, others not, but maybe someone here knows for sure.  Or we won't know for sure until Audioquest releases it.  It does seem like they jumped the gun on pre-announcing it.

Plenty of people use the black and the red for laptops too so not sure mobile is a limiting factor.

 

[DarwinOSX]

4 minutes ago, jhwalker said:

 

Yes, I'm sure - I use it every day, with both my iPhone 7 Plus and my iPad Pro.

 

If you haven't tried it in an while, you might try again - I seem to recall being prompted for an iOS software update the first time I plugged it in, and it's worked ever since.

 

I didn't know the Meridian Explorer 2 could connect to an iPhone or iPad.  I'll have to try that.  But the mobile app won't pass through MQA to it from an iPhone or iPad right?  When I use it with the desktop app I tell it to use the Explorer exclusively but since the mobile app doesn't do MQA at all yet I assume i can't get MQA out of it to the Meridian.?

 

[DarwinOSX]

3 minutes ago, jhwalker said:

 

Audioquest have stated that the Dragonflies will be "MQA renderers", which means they require an external software / player (like the Tidal desktop software or - soon, please - Roon) to perform the first "unfold", after which they will perform the internal DAC "fine tuning".  That is, unless there is an external MQA player / decoder, the Dragonflies will not be MQA capable at all - unlike the Meridian Explorer, which will do all the necessary processing with or without an external player.

 

This tells me to get another Meridian 2 instead of a Dragonfly Red then.  I want one for work and one for home.

[DarwinOSX]

2 minutes ago, tomster said:

Thanks.  Have the DFR, but wanted a second unit and might as well try one that is already working!  Amazon has the same price of $200 instead of the list of $300.

 

The list is now $199 and has been for awhile.  I got mine from Crutchfield.  Free shipping and no tax.

[DarwinOSX]

50 minutes ago, jhwalker said:

 

Right, you *must* have power.  

 

Works great on an airplane (for instance) with the power cord plugged into the USB charger port, or in your car if you have  USB port, etc.  The Dragonflies work without external power - but only up to 24/96 PCM, and no MQA without an external decoder

 

Choices, choices.

 

What do you use as a power source?

 

[DarwinOSX]

On 1/12/2017 at 5:38 AM, blownsi said:

Two questions:

 

1) Since we now know that the DF does not do the full decoding without Tidal's help, is the Explorer 2 the same? Or can the Exp2 playback an MQA file without help?

 

2) Has anyone directly compared the DF Red to the Exp2? They are both $199 and I'm willing to spend that to see how much of a difference it makes vs my "legacy" DAC. In theory one of these should better a more expensive DAC easily since the files are being decoded at a higher bit rate.

 

The Meridian Explorer 2 does the full decode without Tidal help.

You select Passthrough MQA  which disables software decoding of MQA.

 

[DarwinOSX]

1 hour ago, mrvco said:

I got the E2 yesterday afternoon.  I've been comparing the HiFi and Master versions of some songs that I listen to regularly.  My modest desktop setup includes a MacBook Air and Sennheiser Momentum headphones.  I have not heard a demonstrable difference yet between the HiFi and MQA versions.

 

I haven't found a single "MQA" (green light) stream yet, everything regardless of vintage shows up as "MQA Studio" (blue light).  Apparently there are MQA Studio streams that are 'only' 24/48 (blue light only), which I thought was the source stream (fully compressed w/ no MQA decoder).

 

I haven't a/b'd the E2 with my Schiit Fulla yet, but I'm definitely missing the external analog volume control.

 

I'll try the E2's line-out with my 2ch rig this weekend and see how that sounds.  I up-convert Tidal streams to DxD or DSD128 using HQP, but the E2 doesn't support DxD or DSD, so unfortunately that won't be an apples to apples comparison.

 

 

I suppose everyones ears are different but I can easily hear the difference.

[DarwinOSX]

8 minutes ago, tomster said:

mrvco.  I'm not sure what you are expecting from the 'green light'.   According to this article, the only difference between green and blue lights are that the blue versions have been approved by the artist or producer.  https://www.stuff.tv/features/everything-you-need-know-about-mqa-future-music-streaming

 

 

I think that might be different depending on the DAC.  Meridian just says it plays blue if its MQA.

[DarwinOSX]

35 minutes ago, mrvco said:

 

Where is that setting in the Tidal desktop app?  I thought I remembered seeing it in the past, but when I looked last night, I couldn't find it.

 

edit: Whoops, never mind.  I wasn't hovering my mouse pointer over the appropraite blank space for the little gear icon to appear next to the device.

 

Yeah it isn't obvious.

[DarwinOSX]

3 minutes ago, jhwalker said:

The firmware upgrade (and associated desktop management software) is now available:

 

http://www.audioquest.com/digitalupdates

 

I wonder how this compares to the Meridian Explorer 2.  Will the Dragonfly do the full unfold?

[DarwinOSX]

1 minute ago, mansr said:

No, its microcontroller isn't powerful enough for that.

Thats what I suspected...the Meridian is quite a bit more powerful.  I guess I'll just buy another one of them.

[DarwinOSX]

1 hour ago, Wavelength said:

Gang,

 

A little more information...

 

Yes DragonFly is an MQA renderer. We do not do the full decode. The first unfold is done in the application (Tidal, Audirvana and others as I stated above). This unfolding is sent to the DragonFly as MQA data and we pass that onto an MQA library inside the DragonFly code. The library does DSP functions on that data and setups custom filters for each song based on the MQA information for that song inside the ESS DAC chip.

 

This gives it the highest possible quality available for the DragonFly platform.

 

Thanks,

Gordon

So Tidal (or whatever) does the first unfold and the Dragonfly does the second and third unfold and in that manner you get the full unfold using the Dragonfly?

[DarwinOSX]

1 hour ago, miguelito said:

I've listened and I love what I heard.

 

Ditto.

Some people always have to piss on the new thing either to rationalize their existing investment or to sound superior in some way.  At 57 I've changed formats many times as many others have and its pretty much always been worth it.

[DarwinOSX]

1 hour ago, Wavelength said:

 

Correct!

 

Ok finally...an answer.  Since I have a ME 2 and want another device I'll try the red as an alternate which is also more mobile than the ME2.

[DarwinOSX]

1 hour ago, Wavelength said:

 

If you choose pass through then the MQA is basically not enabled.

Thanks,

Gordon

 

Just to be clear..it's not enable for the Dragonfly. it would be enabled for some others devices like the ME 2 which do the full unfold.

As to whether I should prefer a device that can do the full unfold over one that requires the software to do the first one I don't know...

 

[DarwinOSX]

3 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

How can AudioQuest/Gordon answer this or any other question about MQA with substance?  All they can do (because of the very nature of MQA as a legal and IP entity) is claim you don't know what you are talking about, that your "speculation" (though it is often much more than that) is "misinformation" (though it is often the very truth of the matter) and answer you with complete and total marketing speak/non-information.

 

With MQA, it's just as Gordon says and just shut up and listen...don't worry, he and Bob have it ALL under control.  

 

Like he says, it is "stupid questions" that is the biggest problem in computer audio

 

 

 

 

You are not helping.

[DarwinOSX]

25 minutes ago, abrxx said:

 

Sure. I'm just using the official MQA speak, or at least I thought I was!

 

Meridian says their Explorer 2 does three unfolds and to turn on MQA passthrough in Tidal.

[DarwinOSX]

14 minutes ago, miguelito said:

Strictly speaking, the resolution of a 384KHz master was long lost in the folding...

 

Lost or slightly diminished?

You are never going to get PCM streaming which means it will always be an outlier used by people who read forums like this one.

[DarwinOSX]

12 minutes ago, miguelito said:

Lost in the mathematical sense. Once you allow for "psychoacoustically equivalent" you're doing medical perception not scientifically verifiable facts.

 

Lost seems overstated to me including in the mathematical sense.

Psychoacoustics is definetly perception and that can differ greatly of course.

[DarwinOSX]

Just now, mansr said:

0-24 kHz: mostly preserved

24-48 kHz: heavily compressed

48-inf kHz: completely lost

 

Thanks.

I have a Meridian Explorer 2 and and am trying to compare it to what I am reading here.

I understand that not all MQA is the same also.

[DarwinOSX]

22 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

What do you mean by that ?

If it is what I think, I wouldn't put money on it ... 

I mean no streaming service is going to adopt PCM as a format.

MQA's major advantage besides sound is that at least one streaming service has adopted and there are rumors of others doing so.

[DarwinOSX]

1 minute ago, PeterSt said:

 

Still unsure what you are trying to tell.

MQA is PCM ...

PCM as PCM is to people who use it currently with PCM Dacs etc.

What is typical PCM file size?

[DarwinOSX]

5 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

For streaming ? does not matter. For bandwidth, yes. But bandwidth is no problem either. And if not today, then tomorrow.

Anyway, what I was suggesting is that even 384 wouldn't be a problem. But it depends on the software ...

 

5 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

For streaming ? does not matter. For bandwidth, yes. But bandwidth is no problem either. And if not today, then tomorrow.

Anyway, what I was suggesting is that even 384 wouldn't be a problem. But it depends on the software ...

Streaming at home does not matter for people with robust wifi and bandwidth.  

Streaming via a carrier matters for data usage, bandwidth, and performance. i.e. no stuttering.

We all know this.