MQA is Vaporware

[plissken]

FYI several PM's from Michael to myself. I detect a hint of a threat:

 

1> I'm not sure that last message sent - Buttercup

 

Here's my home address:

 

XXXXXXXXXX (removed by editor)

Glen Gardner, NJ 08826

 

You are welcome any time to share your thoughts face-to-face. Bitch.

 

2> I have a better idea.

 

Send me your full name and address and I'll come visit you.

 

We can "talk".

 

3> I have to run but let me know...

 

...if you're interested in that face-to-face. My guess is you'll back down like a little puppy and we'll get along just fine.

 

I'll buy the first round.

 

Since you also said you won't be at Axpona, I could switch up to RMAF to tell you to your face. I've never seen anyone self-dox... how odd.

[plissken]

you are still concerned with and thinking about a 4+ year-old review of Ethernet cables. How meaningful is your life?

 

 

It's not a time thing. It's the easiest item to implement to get someone to realize they may just be hearing things.

 

Ethernet avails itself as possibly the best interconnect for A/B ing without interruption.

 

I have a question: Have you ever tried simply starting a listening session and have someone pull the Ethernet cable and allow playback to continue to attempt and guess when they pulled the plug?

 

Same can be done with wireless.

[plissken]

I've tried more things than you can imagine. Let me share some info - my father was an MSEE and an audiophile. He was "old school" in that he grew up analog but morphed into digital.

 

So I've been talking about, or perhaps better stated as listening to, my father and EE audiophile buddies talk about all of this forever (in my lifetime terms).

 

Never, once, ever did any of these conversations turn ugly the way you are making this conversation ugly. I think the reasons gets back to the fact that these guys knew digital (they all became "IT" guys) *and* analog.

 

They did not hang their self-worth (and masculinity?) on being right. This seems to be a symptom of *some* digital-minded guys.

 

So yea -- Ethernet cables. The IT company I owned, installed, tested, and certified Ethernet networks.

 

So yea, I've thought about all of the basic stuff you've mentioned and then some.

 

Then what is your fear about a well controlled evaluation?

[plissken]

]

I do not place any value, whatsoever, on listening "tests" in audio for a number of reasons. I've gone into detail on AS but I will say that any "test" creates an artificial condition that does not exist otherwise. Perhaps more to the point, my belief is that this hobby is about the experience and enjoyment of listening to music.

 

And that is a cop out.

 

What was the 'natural' condition that allowed you to hear 'easy to discern' and 'readily apparent' differences?

 

You essentially compared cable A to cable B. You aren't being asked to do anything other than that. You don't need to know the cable in your system to evaluate it's characteristics.

 

Your claims are being tested.

 

How is it a 'natural' condition to go to a show and hear differences in Ethernet cabling?

[plissken]

Archimago's Musings: COMPARISON: TIDAL / MQA stream & high-resolution downloads; impressions & thoughts...

 

As with most his musings I find his technical take on MQA informative.

[plissken]

If you've read my reviews, you would know that I spent more than a month doing comparisons.

 

Why?

 

Good question!

 

Because short-term listening results have no bearing on long term listening results.

Because it takes real time to get beyond initial impressions Because taking real time and 'living' with things allows you to reduce the impact of 'the new' [

 

 

You shouldn't run with the assumption that I couldn't black box all of this and leave it in your listening environment for a few months.

 

Why would 'Easily Discernible' and 'Readily Apparent' not survive quicker A/B testing? What is your definition of 'Clearly Discernible' and 'Readily Apparent'?

 

 

 

Doesn't have the knowledge to make the claims you are making

Has called me a "coward" and a "hack"

 

Anyone that starts ban hammering the likes of Archimago, John Sully when they are making very valid points because is challenges your understanding of how this actually operates. That's the provenance of cowardice.

 

Anyone that says they can listen to 3-4 different Ethernet cables and establish, for their hearing as baseline, 'Easily Discernible' and 'Readily Apparent' differences. Add to that, and I quote you directly:

 

 

 

"I've spent a few months with these cables, and I swapped them in and out any number of times. With quick A/B swapping, which I admit to finding one of the most annoying ways one can listen since you're no longer listening to the music!, I was still able to perceive a clear difference but longer listening allowed me to more fully appreciate the greater clarity and relative ease the Vodka and Diamond cables impart.

Read more at http://www.audiostream.com/content/audioquest-vodka-ethernet-cable-and-diamond-ethernet-cable#x6OaqqygJBU0YzMx.99"

 

and

 

Again, these changes are not subtle or slight. AudioQuest Vodka Ethernet Cable and Diamond Ethernet Cable | AudioStream

So, since your little "test" is based on a faulty assumption and will not produce a valid result, I'd only be taking part in it to humor you.

 

My test is based on your own words for pete's sake.

 

Your backtracking, your circular logic, your complete lack of understanding of buffered, multiple-copy stacks, non-realtime systems, your descriptions of depth of field, audio blossoms, (even though data arrives in spurts and plays out of buffer 100% of the time) even in the face of you having been an I.T. person make you a hack.

 

 

why in the world would I do that?

 

Its called exposed.

[plissken]

You'll be in good company .. more than a few industry folk have either left CA or post infrequently. It's unfortunate.

 

Ya, all the people howling at the moon drove JRiver off the site.

[plissken]

Without wishing to create additional turmoil, I do have one question for plissken:

 

Do you have any personal experience with Ethernet cables like the ones manufactured by AudioQuest or Wireworld?

 

Please guys, don't give him more airplay.. This is way off-topic..

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

He's been quoted and replied to in the 'Audiophile Ethernet Cables'

[plissken]

Isn't vaporware. It's another format among many, and opinions are all over the place about it's SQ. Some prefer PCM, others DSD, some like what they are hearing with MQA.

 

Nothing much is going to change in that regard.

[plissken]

I'm curious - are the records you buy in lossless FLAC released by the 3 major labels?

 

The albums purchased based on open formats are easily trans-coded to FLAC.

[plissken]

If I'm not going to "read into", i.e. report on, what the major players in the industry *do*, are you suggesting that I should report on forum posts?

 

(I'm being serious)

 

You could do both where content of the post merits it. Its trending toward 360 degree input.

[plissken]

I was simply using his words.

 

But you aren't denied a FLAC file in the end if you purchase PCM. I'm simply curious if there would be the ability (not the need since the file sizes are pretty small) to transcode.

[plissken]

How do you suggest I determine the validity of forum posts by anonymous posters?

 

Oh wait, I know! How many times they call someone a coward! (joke)

 

I would guess the same way if a manufacture is shining you on. Like re-packaging an Oppo player into a $3.5K device?

 

I would say on the merits. That's a judgement call. When John Sully was talking about how Cache operations on Intel CPU's and the bit streaming conversation you could have easily encapsulated that into a future article. But I have a feeling if it doesn't meet a certain narrative....

[plissken]

Your feeling is wrong. I'm trying to avoid this nonsense but here's a tip for you - look at the people who complain about who I ban from AudioStream. Then look at the language they use. Like yours. Get the picture?

 

If you have a valid point to make, you can make it without nonsense. The same should hold for the people I've banned. We are adults, no?

 

 

All I have to go by is each persons reputation. I've seen meritorious information provided in comments at your site and would be interested what future musings by you incorporated those points.

 

Just wanted to answer your question and get back to the thread at hand.

[plissken]

I'd recommend reading the comments by CG in all of the Ethernet posts. He is an expert in his field and his field is not limited to IT.

 

I read some posts of his and it would be a good conversation to have.

[plissken]

Michael has a basic disagreement with you in approach and how human perception works. So he doesn't see the need to use your approach, which he thinks is incorrect, by definition.

 

I'm using his own approach and quoted him directly on it in this very thread.

[plissken]

It appears as if the video I mentioned with Juergen of MBL will not be ready until early next week.

 

In the mean time, here's some food for thought:

 

Open and Tolerant: MBL's Juergen Reis on Listening, Measurements, and (Un)Certainty | AudioStream

 

It's a good read and likely best suited for it's own thread(?)

[plissken]

The "Nasty Effect" is referenced here:

 

This Story Stinks - The New York Times

 

"The results were both surprising and disturbing. Uncivil comments ... often changed a participant’s interpretation of the news story itself."

 

That's on the participant however. Another thing is that you have persons that run a comments section selectively and continuously 'cull the herd' in a vain attempt to get the homogenized participant body that echos what ever said person wants as a narrative.

 

That's most likely more damaging then simply closing a comments section.

 

Even though imperfect ArsTechica's comment system is, it is voter moderated for the most part. Here it's a red or green bar.

[plissken]

Highly religious readers, the study revealed, were more likely to see nanotechnology as risky when exposed to rude comments compared to less religious readers, Brossard notes.

 

 

That's an aspiring Ph.D students dissertation right there.

[plissken]

Can you point me to some examples of "...persons that run a comments section selectively and continuously 'cull the herd' in a vain attempt to get the homogenized participant body that echos what ever said person wants as a narrative."

 

Let me see if I guess one of them: AudioStream. If I'm correct, I'll ask you - how many people have have I banned, and why were they banned? If your answer is "to get the homogenized participant body that echos what ever said person wants as a narrative. " you would be incorrect. If you'd like to argue that point, please offer some facts to support your assumption.

 

Wait: You mean you want me to produce hard #'s and evidence? Wooo that is indeed rich coming from you.

 

If you can 'choose' to be 100% subjective in your evaluations of Ethernet cables and provide nothing of the sort that you just asked of me... I believe I will avail myself of the reciprocal and tell you it's all about the 'feels'.

 

I feel something therefore it is.

 

It can't get any more fair than that.

[plissken]

So, if I call you a hack, a coward, and a shill for MQA, we're cool. Right?

 

;-)

 

If you have a basis for it your golden. Heck, I'm a *bitch* and a *buttercup*.

 

Both you and Chris have reputations that proceed them.

[plissken]

Thank you. You make claims of "fact" that you cannot support with any relevant facts.

 

A review of Ethernet cables where I very clearly communicate my methods and conclusions is not, in any way, the same.

 

You have your interpretation and I have mine.

 

A vote of hands from anyone here that thinks Archimago was banned @Audiostream for 'incivility'.

 

I'm not buying that for a second.

[plissken]

Children say things like "You are poopy head." That does not make someone a poopy head.

 

You say I'm a coward and hack which in reality means you *think* I'm a coward and a hack. Which is fine by me.

 

The idea that you appear to not understand the difference is where we disconnect.

 

I supported my position. I used terms in a reasonably dictionary defined way. I've explained why each was used. I think you are such and you think I'm a bitch and buttercup. You think others are acting like an ass.

 

Doing some quick googlefu "archimago site:audiostream.com" returns me all indexed content at your site that contains Archimago.

 

Feb 23, 2015:

 

"

I know exactly where you stand on this subject and you should know exactly where I stand. Frankly, I find most of your posts here to be nothing more than adverts for your own blog, Archimago. And I wish you the best of luck with your site but I am getting tired of your endlessly repeating the same thing, over and over again here."

 

I've also read the comments from Feb 11, 2015

 

Participation before that was Nov, 17th 2014 so I've discounted anything from that date and prior.

 

I've seen zero evidence of Archimago being anything other than civil. He certainly made counterpoints and lots of them.

[plissken]

Since you have no idea why he was banned, your basis for "buying" anything is all in your imagination.

 

Archimago repeadely made the false claim that the content on AudioStream was written to support our advertisers. I asked him, in emails, to refrain from making this fasle claim and simply stick to the facts at hand.

 

He was unable to follow this simple request so he was banned.

 

"AudioStream was written to support our advertisers"

 

Not an unreasonable conclusion by reasonable people that understand how audio reproduction works IMO.

 

My read is you trumped up the excuse that he was hawking his blog at your site and banned him.

 

I'll go and search for Sully next.

[plissken]

You don't see the comments he was banned for because I either edit them out when there's something of substance or I delete the entire comment when there is nothing of substance.

 

Look, plissken, if you call me a coward and hack and follow that up with you're going to say these things to my face, you can expect a strong response from me. Is this appropriate behavior? No. But that's what you'll get from me. Id' suggest if you this kind of thing upsets you, you should tone down your own comments.

 

No, I'll SUPPORT my comments.

 

What empirical benchmarking have you ever done with your ears that would lead anyone believe you have the ability you claim have to hear audibility of Ethernet cables in the face of:

 

1. No measurements of your own

2. Measurements that other people have made

3. No meaningful rebuttal of measurements made by other people

 

BTW I've been reading CG's comments and I'm not surprised @ the amount of push back. The Audiophile Sony SD card thread was particularly eye opening as to his attempting to maintain an entrenched position that just isn't possible.

 

This post of his is problematic and it's a lack of understanding on his part and way to many assumptions made.