What Are the Best Sounding Speakers You've Ever Heard.?

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B&W 801 Matrix

 

 

 

 

I am very familiar with the 801Fs. The ones I listen to have been a bit "modified/optimised" and its sealed bass cabinet and 12" woofer are my absolute reference in terms of low frequency reproduction.

The resonance of the kevlar cone is not as obvious as that of subsequent 800 series models and the silk-domed tweeters are quite smooth.

I owned the 802S3 and these were absolute rubbish...

 

I seldom enjoy the demos at shows, though I understand the difficulties, but I've also seen some poorly setup speakers (my listening of the Giyas, which despite this showed potential) and some bad combinations (such as Krell and Wilsons).

And often the music, played too loud, is inadequate for proper evaluation (all those audiophile recordings of Krells and Bubbles and Barbies that sound incredibly artificial and spectacular in most systems).

 

From more recent visits to shows and dealers, with more demanding standards, I remember enjoying some wide-range speakers such as the SF Stradivari, the largest Revels and TADs, some Magico model, the Nautilus, the Duo Mezzo, the largest Meridians...but in shows it's all very system and room dependent.

I've never been particularly impressed with any of the Wilsons over the years, though I don't deny the "spectacular" presentation of their larger models.

I am probably more sensitive to (un)flatness in the upper midrange and midwoofer resonance than cabinet resonance...

 

R

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Ahhh forgot about those!! Needed lots of power. Always showed with Threshold or Krell.

I would also add some large Apogee model to my list, but I don't recall which...

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Agreed.

And if the ears have been biased by all the hype, a quick look at the measured performance of those many leaves little room for doubt.

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I have to say, I simply find speakers a really personal choice. In addition to some brands I've mentioned that I can see people liking, I've also heard some high-end speakers that I just don't understand why people would like, except I know lots of people love them, like Sonus Farber, MBL, YG acoustics, B&W 800 series 2 & 3 speakers, Vivid V1.

 

I think part of the challenge too is that if you have a decent pair of speakers, even say the older Paradigm speakers or the current PSB, Bryston, Monitor Audio or Goldenear, and if they are setup in a room with good acoustics with good speaker and seat placement, the sonic impact is going to be much greater than a more phenomenon speaker with poor room acoustics or poor seat placement where you have uneven bass frequency response. As a result, ironically, I have seen and heard rooms with problematic acoustics and speaker/seat placement that sound way better with inferior speakers and actually sound worse with speaker upgrades.

 

I would probably choose and/or add other >20k speakers that I find significantly flawed performance wise for the price (people's tastes are as varied as speakers) but I agree with your opinion, although I do think that the OP was looking for comments regarding full frequency and dynamic range speakers and these invariably need to be large.

 

But if I had the space and could spend that amount I would not buy a commercial speaker.

If I did buy, I'd rather lose out on the bottom octave but get smooth on- and off-axis response and no driver resonances.

 

R

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Here's an example:

 

 

 

With a custom-designed 4 way speaker you can adjust the lower crossover to match the strongest resonant node, and perhaps you can do the same with subwoofers...

 

R

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JBL M2 Master Reference monitor

 

http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/recording-broadcast/m2#.V_w3yOgrKUk

 

Constant directivity down to 800hz so the room 'doesn't' matter.

 

Those that think they've heard what they feel is the pinnacle owe it to themselves to audition these...............

 

I would have to listen to them but I have trouble understanding how one can get good sound from a two way "compression driver + large woofer" system.

 

I also disagree with the room doesn't matter with constant directivity unless the speakers have a narrow dispersion pattern above 2-300Hz...

Unless you don't mind constant reflections.

 

R

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The Ascents were great. I owned them with Rowlands stuff. My only issue with them was they quickly ran out of steam at high SPL or big bass recordings. Similar to the old MBL designs.

 

I do find it amusing how most of us define our speaker preferences based on certain specific characteristics; hence why no one size fits all; good thread.

 

Not that I have any desire to purchase anything, but the new big YG (as well as the Carmel) and the Vivid are two speakers I would like to hear, properly set up, in rooms that can handle them.

It's interesting to see that we have different needs and expectations depending on which side of the Atlantic we live.

 

Due to the larger size of the rooms in North America people over there tend to look for speakers that play louder and go deeper, this perhaps because of the lossier construction methods which I presume produces less room gain.

 

R

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Here is why the M2's are probably the best speaker out there in terms of accuracy:

 

 

Come on Mr. Druid, I thought you knew me by now?

 

Sorry, I don't buy into infomercials or magazine reviews; I have my reasons.

 

R

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Here is why the M2's are probably the best speaker out there in terms of accuracy:

 

OK, bit the bullet.

The PR guy from JBL is saying that this speaker was developed for filmsoundtrack engineers and it's goals are Loud and Low...explosions.

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Linn are at the race of speaker/room interaction, with their Exakt technology.

I was never impressed with their speakers, although I did own a pair of Helix 2's back in the day...

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Generally speaking I don't think that speakers which require loud SPL are good speakers performance wise, and they're not good for your ears either.

 

R

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There's lots more to the M2 than the PR and near constant directivity. There's dynamics and amp level distortion #'s that small format drivers can't touch. I wouldn't steer you wrong for the sake of self pontification....i don't own them but only listened.......and i've listened to LOTS of Hifi systems here in NYC where everything is at your fingertips. All i can say is go and take a listen when you can. It won't be time wasted, i promise you!

I'd like to listen to them but I don't know if there are any physical retailers stocking M2s here the UK located at a reasonable distance.

 

But from a design perspective I am not very confident on the decision to go 2-way with a single compression driver covering the 800-20,000 Hz band and a 15'' woofer crossed so high.

The fact that the crossover frequency is in the middle of the midrange doesn't help either.

I am also not very impressed with the idea to place use a wave-guide with a compression driver, particularly in speakers that are designed for far-field listening.

 

Just like with BnW, JBL seem to be focusing all their efforts on particulars whilst neglecting the whole...

 

In my opinion.

 

R

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I have not heard the M2. And seeing how it is put together I had all the same reservations. It seems like a caricature of the best speaker someone could make. However, listening to some of the other Harman speakers at lesser price levels I would give them benefit of the doubt and believe them. I think you have it exactly backwards. I think they have managed to figure out some important, important particulars that have allowed them to design speakers that get the whole more right than perhaps anything that has come before them. The way they do everything in such balance and hit all the particulars just so results in a very holistic listening experience. When that happens you can forget about sound and hear music.

 

I think they have obsessed with some particular aspects of performance and neglected others; BnW is clearly blinded by their love for hard cones and domes (and even cabinets) which have their virtues, to the point of accepting a tremendous cone resonance of the midrange/midwoofer driver (802 Diamond) right where your ear is most sensitive, as you can see in the attached image.

The Harman group does produce good speakers but they have a real fixation on directivity control to the point of only producing narrow-baffle domestic speakers (even the largest Revels don't use woofers larger than 8'').

 

IMO&E one cannot achieve full range with a conventional direct radiating box loudspeaker using less than 4 ways.

 

R

 

 

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A four way speaker??

 

Wouldn't that be a crossover nightmare? Even a relative simple 3way speaker can be difficult.

For full range yes.

If you can live without the extreme bottom then a 3-way is enough.

 

R

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Anyone heard the Rockport Lyra yet?

 

The cabinet construction and resonance control mechanism is quite interesting.

I just wish that manufacturers would publish some measurements to support their design choices and claims.

 

R

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As for B&W speakers, I agree. Never heard any I liked from low to high price. Find myself mystified by the praise some heap upon them.

 

As for Harman some of their speakers (large Revels) are 4 way designs. They aren't guided by that however, rather by results. If they can do it with a two way then better I say. I listen to one way speakers. Harman's idea is more than just controlled directivity though such is a key component. As they manage to get full response to 20 hz using combinations of 8 inch woofers I am not sure what the complaint would be. I am sure it is possible to put them in a large enough room they couldn't perform well enough. By then you should probably be stepping up to the M2.

 

I listened to the Ultima 2 Studios sometime ago and I found them quite competent if a little "forward" sounding.

Revels are some of the few speaker manufacturers that I recommend listening.

 

More recently I owned a pair of PSB T2s which come from the same school of design (narrow front and wave-guide controlled directivity); very nice speakers, only let down by the sparkly tweeter and I also felt they were constraint dynamically, even in a small room.

 

R

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Now while the premise of a four way system being optimal, there's the reality of passive network components to get the slopes right. So many caps and inductors IMO suck the dynamic life out of a speaker with inductors being the worst offenders. Today's wide band drivers have come a long way from Scandinavian main stay drive units from SEAS, Scanspeak, Vifa and the like. JBL who's been perfecting bass drivers for the past 30 years has some 15" woofers who's breakup mode isn't until 1.2khz and so benign to require only a simple notch filter and cap to achieve near textbook 2nd order combined acoustic/electric slope. Low QTS combined with cloth or foam surrounds allow the driver to produce fine detail with dynamics and efficiencies not possible with critically damped hifi drivers. For a four way, there's also the problem of driver spacing and inherent vertical lobes also known as cancellation notches. While not a problem on axis, off axis they leave wide holes in the overall power response which is quite audible.

 

I had seen mention of the dual diaphragm in the literature.

 

As previously mentioned I have some doubts regarding the effectiveness of their topology and am still waiting for an independent review with measurements.

So far these are all I've found:

 

http://www.soundandrecording.musikmachen.de/Magazine/SOUND-RECORDING/2014/12/JBL-M2-Master-Reference-Monitor-Testbericht

 

Not much to go on but they do show a significant amount breakup right where the ear is more sensitive:

 

 

 

 

That's the problem with speakers: there's a trade-off in every solution.

 

For example, the cone in the TAD coaxial driver of the Evo1s produced distortion in the upper bands.

The M2s won't have this problem due to the extremely narrow directivity in the upper frequencies and there wont be any cone moving back and forth to produce interference.

 

And according to Neumann, if you split the 20-800Hz range over 2 drivers you'll reduce intermodulation distortion:

 

http://www.neumann-kh-line.com/neumann-kh/glossary.nsf/root/19025D8C4F126AD8C12578B2003A71E9?Open&term=TIM

 

 

 

As for directivity and sound power, having owned a pair of PSBs I find that the BBC school of gently attenuating the sound power in the "presence region" where the ear is more sensitive produces better results in smaller rooms at midfield listening distances.

 

But it may just be a question of taste...

 

R

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I like a bit of BBC dip as well!..........back in the day before the foam rotted away, my Rogers were my favorite monitors.

 

The graph you posted is the individual drivers measured outside of filters and shown on the same scale for comparison. That nasty breakup is what a 15" woofer should sound like above 1.5khz as depicted in the red trace. It's also important when looking at some graphs to take note of the scale and smoothing. Many reviewers AND manufacturers use that to their advantage when trying to get their point across...... or not! Lol. I think they meant to confirm system efficiency with that one?..lol

 

But in all seriousness, the M2 system is really pricey and IMO audio is one of the BEST examples of diminishing returns and one of the WORST offenders of form over function.

Take a pair of Maggie 1.7's for an example coupled with a SS run of the mill 200wpc amplifier........man, that performance is VERY hard to eclipse at that cost. It checks quite a few boxes with ultra light ribbon membranes for near perfect transient response, no enclosure so no resonances and dipolar bass which interacts less with the room for reduced propagation of modes and nulls.........but they are VERY power hungry and unforgiving of amplifier clipping to the point of instantaneous destruction so........another example of your trade offs!

 

I don't doubt of JBL/Harman's ability to design very high performance full range speakers but considering the available information I am not convinced that the M2s are those speakers.

 

Much enjoyed debating this topic with you!

 

Same here.

 

Cheers,

Ricardo

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But will a good $500 speaker in a right room sound better than a good $5000 one in a right room (I mean rooms just right for each speaker).?

This.

 

R

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I'm not a fan of horn speakers but in my personal ranking many of them are among the best looking loudspeakers. These ones look impressive too!

 

BTW I've heard about a Japanese audiophile whose listening room ceiling was horn shaped and served as a subwoofer for a SET system. Would like to hear it if the story was true!

This solution looks interesting:

 

 

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And this one from the designer of the Total DAC:

 

http://vincent.brient.free.fr/bass_horn.htm

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Requirements: loud, loud, noisy, loud, distorted... loud?

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18 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Interesting what happens here - it starts with something like live dynamics, but then someone apparently switches something, and it collapses into PA sludge - I tend not to like the "tiny sound" of the latter, 🤪.

Horns are very directional, the tinny sound is probably happening on axis. Awful stuff, but apparently exciting and lively and loud is enough for some headbangers