SACD Ripping using an Oppo or Pioneer? Yes, it's true!

[tmtomh]

Holy sh*t this is awesome. Thank you, and looking forward to the links and further details.

 

I'm also guessing now would be a good time for folks to make sure their internet-connected Oppo, Cambridge, and Pioneer players are not set to auto-update future firmware upgrades, in case the manufacturers see this and try to disable this capability in the future.

[tmtomh]

I will repeat: this ripping capability is available for those BD/universal/SACD players that have the MT8580 or MT8560 chipsets ONLY!

 

Telnet is the only communication vehicle I am aware of that allows one to run this. That requires a LAN connection (I assume wireless is ok but don't know these players' capability).

Thanks for this info, Ted. I hope (against hope, alas) that folks will chill and just wait for you to post the full info and links before bombarding you with further questions. Appreciate your service to our community.

[tmtomh]

I haven't tried it yet, but for those who don't want to install and boot into Windows, I would imagine this would work fine via a PC/Windows emulator app on a Mac. Today's emulators have very smooth and transparent networking through the emulation layer, and the hard drive images they use are dynamically expandable (meaning they can easily hold large files like SACD images). Plus, one of them - VirtualBox - is available free. All you need is a copy of Windows.

 

Also, while I don't have the skill myself, I imagine it would be very doable to make this work natively on a Mac. Using OS X's Terminal app, you can easily telnet into a remote server. And the text in the "SACD.cmd" file probably could be used with a Mac either as-is or with minimal translation, since it just calls the SACD_extract app and sets some flags.

 

The real issue, of course, would be porting the SACD_extract.exe app to the Mac. Since it's less than 1MB in size, I would guess that it's not super-complex and that someone knowledgeable in Windows and Mac coding could easily do it, especially since it wouldn't have to have a graphic user interface (being triggered from the command line).

[tmtomh]

There is a sacd_extract version for OS X in this package: http://dsd.sonore.us/iso2dsd_OSX_v6.zip. Maybe that one works for this procedure.

Interesting! ...

[tmtomh]

Hope I'm not cluttering up the thread, but is anyone getting the player's drawer to eject BUT unable to actually do the SACD rip?

 

I ask because so far it seems like if the USB key procedure gets the player's drawer to eject, then the rip works.

 

If I am wrong, please let me know. But if I am right, then we could eliminate telnet from this entirely, because it would not only be unnecessary to do the actual rip, but it also would be unnecessary to use even to tell ahead of time if the machine is compatible with this rip method. You could just stick the USB key in the player and see if it trigged the drawer eject.

[tmtomh]

I'm trying the Mac method and it's not working:

 

- OKAY: Oppo BDP-105 disk drawer opens when Autoscript USB stick is inserted

- OKAY: Java app opens and lets me choose server source and I can put in the Oppo's IP address

- OKAY: In Network Utility I can manually ping the Oppo's ID address and it works fine

- PROBLEM: When I press the "Execute" button in the Java app, nothing happens

- PROBLEM: When I try to telnet into the Oppo from Terminal, I get "connection refused"

- PROBLEM: When I go into terminal and use ping to tell it to find all detectable devices on my network, it does NOT list the OPPO's IP address, even though manual pinging of that address does work

 

Anyone have any idea what the problem might be?

 

I then tried the original Windows method (the non-GUI .cmd method), via my PC/Windows emulator on my Mac, and currently it appears to be working, which is great (and it's going fast - has ripped 10% while I've been typing this paragraph).

 

But I'd love to be able to use the Mac-native version.

 

Also, does anyone have a comprehensive list of the flags in the Windows cmd version? I'd love to have granular control over whether I rip the entire SACD, 2-track or multi-track only, ISO format vs DSF, CUE file, etc. Thanks!

[tmtomh]

That is about the same network problem I have with the Pioneer 180. I can ping but I cannot connect. My drawer does not open when inserting the USB stick. I am on a Mac.

I'm not 100% sure it is a network problem, because it is working fine with all the same equipment (same Mac, same Oppo player, same SACD disc, same Airport Extreme router), via a Windows emulator app.

 

Also, remember, at least one other member here reported that they could not telnet in, but the SACD extraction still worked.

 

So what I am wondering is, might this be an OS X El Capitan problem? Remember that with 10.11 El Capitan, Apple introduced SIP, System Integrity Protection. This is a "rootless" mode in which certain system folders/directories cannot be modified, even by an admin user.

 

I saw online that one Mac site said you have to temporarily disable SIP in order to install Java on a Mac running El Capitan (because Java installs files in one or more of those locked/forbidden folders). I had remnants of a Java installation on my iMac, and so I downloaded the Java installer without disabling SIP, and it appeared to go fine, enabling me to launch and run the SACD app.

 

But now I am wondering if the Java app is unable to access all its needed files, or if perhaps some were not actually installed or properly updated, and maybe the Java app is silently failing and throwing up an error message.

 

I am far from certain that this is the cause, but the easy way to find out would be to disable SIP, reinstall Java, and try again. If that works, then one could re-enable SIP and try again (since SIP is supposed to impact only the installation of Java, not the use once it's installed).

[tmtomh]

Okay, I'm an idiot. :-)

 

I disabled SIP, rebooted, re-installed Java, and tried again with no luck.

 

BUT - and here's the good news - I realized that I'd moved the Java app (the .jar file) to my Applications folder but had accidentally left the actual executable - sacd_extract - in the original folder where I'd downloaded it.

 

Moved sacd_extract to the Applications folder, and it works like a charm now!

[tmtomh]

Just to get my feeble brain around this before laying hands on an Oppo 103. Am I correct in understanding that this approach does not permanently modify the player in any way? It appears to load a program, probably into volatile memory in the player, then execute that program in the player when started via commands from an Ethernet-connected PC. It then delivers the rip to the same PC directory from which the rip was started. So, after rebooting the player, all traces of the ripper program are gone from the player?

 

I am am hot to trot after having burned out two PS3s.

 

My 105 is working totally normally after I ripped an SACD. When the rip was done, I opened the drawer, took out the disk, turned off the player, and then removed the USB stick. (My understanding is that you can remove the USB stick as soon as it has triggered the initial opening of the drawer, but I forgot so I just took it out afterwards.)

 

It would make sense that you'd have to turn the player off and back on again (as I did) to clear the effects of the USB stick autoscript program. But honestly, I don't even know for sure that the machine wouldn't play discs normally even if you didn't power cycle it first.

 

My 105 did not show the scrolling ABCDEFGH or whatever text - it just showed the normal "Home Screen" and "Screen Saver" messages. (I don't have it hooked up to a monitor so I don't know what a TV screen would have showed during that time).

 

My understanding is that the scrolling text comes from the telnet connection, which is not necessary for doing the SACD rip procedure - it only is necessary for development and debugging. In fact, I and many others have been unable to telnet into our machines (at least using Mac OS X) - we get "connection refused." But the ripping still works fine.

 

So... it might be that the Autoscript program simply initiates a special kind of network connection to the player, and it might be that you can still play any disc using the Oppo remote even when the Autoscript is in effect. I don't know - I haven't tried it yet. Anyone else?

[tmtomh]

Hallo

 

Got it running with Cambridge Audio CXU.

Telnet not running, but no need to.

 

Thanks for all

Greetings from Germany

Great to have another confirmed machine working!

 

Also, a general question: Is it true that so far all the Oppo (and now Cambridge) units refuse the telnet connection, while the Pioneer 160/170 accepts it? Not an issue for SACD ripping, but just curious...

[tmtomh]

It's not true. You just have to use another package with different script or you have to add 3 lines of code to existing script. But as i said earlier, telnet is useful only for debugging purposes. If you don't know what to do with it - forget about telnet.

Thanks for the info!

[tmtomh]

First off, thanks again Ted for your efforts in making this a viable option for so many of us!

 

 

A simple set of instructions for Mac users:

 

 

1. Download Ted’s Dropbox ZIP file from https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8cunli3d3...2EwCCBhya?dl=0. UnZIP, and discard the “SACD Extract” folder.
   
2. Copy the Autoscript folder to the root level of an DOS/FAT32-formatted USB stick. (Other files can be on the stick - it doesn’t need to be blank)
   
3. Download and install Oracle Java 8 SE Development kit for Mac from Java SE Development Kit 8 - Downloads. Macs running El Capitan 10.11 may need to disable System Integrity Protection (SIP), do the install, and then re-enable SIP: http://osxdaily.com/2015/10/05/disable-rootless-system-integrity-protection-mac-os-x/
   
4. Download the Sonore ISO2DSD Java app joker linked to. Here’s a different link to it: Sonore ISO2DSD – V.A.M.P.
   
5. UnZIP the Sonore download and move the folder into your Applications folder (or wherever you want it). Be sure to keep the .jar file and the "sacd extract" file together in the same folder, wherever you decide to put them.
   
6. Power on Oppo, ensure it’s connected to your network via ethernet or wi-fi.
   
7. Disable Auto-play and Auto-resume in Oppo settings.
   
8. Use Oppo Remote iOS app (or whatever method you like) to find your player’s IP address on your network.
   
9. Insert USB stick into any of the Oppo’s USB ports. Disk drawer will open almost immediately.
   
10. Insert SACD of your choosing, close drawer with open/close button (NOT with Play button).
    
11. On your Mac, launch the .jar file inside the Sonore ISO2DSD folder.
    
12. In ISO2DSD window, select “from server” radio button at the top, then enter Oppo’s IP address from step 8.
    
13. On righthand side of ISO2DSD window, select “raw ISO” under “output format.”
    
14. Press Execute button. Ripping will start in about 10 seconds and progress bar will show.
    

[tmtomh]

Problem when I check my list of devices that are connected to my Mac Mini my Oppo 103 D does not show up nor does my Mac show up on the Oppo which makes sense. Both are connected by ethernet to the same router why don't they show on the same network and how can I get them to recognize each other?

My Mac does not see the Oppo either. I can't say for sure what's going on with your system, but the fact that you can't see the Oppo in your network/shared device list on your Mac does not mean you can't rip SACDs with it.

[tmtomh]

Thanks to KAL and tmtomh for the step by step. I'm a bit lost on the target folder selection which seems to be missing from both descriptions.

Check out step 12 of my guide above: If you're being prompted to select a target folder, then the ISO2DSD app is still in "from file" mode - you need to click the "from server" radio button at the top left area of the window. Then the select target folder area will disappear, and it will be replaced by an area where you can enter the IP address of your disc player.

 

I take it, like when using SACD_EXTRACT.EXE, where the iso2dsd_gui.exe is located, by default, a new folder is created in the same folder and the target SACD.ISO is created there?

Almost - the ISO file is not placed in a new folder; rather, it's created in the same folder where the ISO2DSD app is.

[tmtomh]

Here's to the people having problems with players that are supposed to work:

 

It is vital that the USB stick is partitioned similarily as a HD, with (at least) the first primary partition as FAT(32).

It won't work if your stick is formatted as a floppy with no MBR.

 

So repartition your stick (easy with Linux, for windows i recommend something as Bootice 1.332, as windows itself sometimes lies about whether or not a MBR exists on a USB stick).

 

So download Bootice, run it, select your stick, select 'Parts Manage', then 'Re-Partitioning', then 'USB-HDD mode (Single Partition)", FAT32, and click 'OK'. Afterwards copy the AutoScript Folder onto the stick, and you should be fine.

 

That did work for me (on an Azur 752BD) , as before i had troubles myself getting it to work (USB stick has been without partitions and MBR)

 

Good luck and fun ripping..

Great post!

 

One quick question, to be sure we're all on the same page: You're saying you successfully ripped an SACD from your Azur 752BD? Apologies if this was answered earlier and I missed it, but the last I recall, only the Oppo 103/105 and Pioneer 160/170 had been confirmed to work.

 

Thanks for any clarification/confirmation you can provide!

[tmtomh]

Yes, I am ripping now SACDs with my Azur 752BD and it works fine!

[tmtomh]

Quickie question for those who's ripped SACDs successfully: Are your ISO's louder than the same RB layer ripped to FLAC? I have to turn down my volume quite a bit to play the SACD rips. FLAC and ISO are played from JRMC 21 w/ its volume maxed. Volume is controlled via analogue (I think) on my DAC.

I could be misunderstanding here, but I do know that many folks who rip SACDs and then convert them to PCM FLAC files, have their conversion apps (like Foobar I think) do a volume/gain adjustment during the conversion. I believe this is something to do with the different way DSD and PCM encode samples, and the resulting differences in the headroom of each medium.

 

In other words, my understanding is that a DSD signal that doesn't clip, could become a PCM signal with clipping if the conversion does not include a volume adjustment.

 

Is there any possibility that JRiver or something in your playback chain is converting your ISOs to PCM during playback?

[tmtomh]

I've had a similar issue as you twice now in the past week and each time I found that my Oppo's IP address had changed by one number. In both cases it was the last number in the chain before 2020, and once I matched the Sonore app to the Oppo I've been fine. Have no idea why that one number has changed though. Hope you get your problem solved.

The last number in the chain is the specific ID your network router assigns to each connected device - Oppo, computer, tablet, smartphone, whatever is in range and connected to your network at the time.

 

Routers assign these addresses dynamically. So if you powered off your Oppo, then connected with your phone or laptop, it's possible the phone or laptop got assigned the address the Oppo previously had, so when your turned the Oppo back on and it rejoined your network, your router had to give it a different address.

 

However, getting reassigned a new IP address twice in a week seems a bit frequent to me - usually these addresses reset/renew once a week at the very most. So another possibility is that when you turn the Oppo back on and rejoin the network, your router doesn't realize it's same device, so it keeps the old address reserved and assigns the Oppo - what the router thinks is a "new" and different Oppo - a new address.

 

It's really nothing to worry about either way, except for the minor inconvenience. It just forces you to fire up the Oppo Media Control app (or use a network-mapping utility on your computer) each time you want to rip an SACD, so you can see what the player's current IP address is.

 

A direct connection between the computer would probably work if you statically assign IP addresses to the computer and the player (for example 192.168.1.1 for one and 192.168.1.2). You may need a crossover cable, but I don't think it would be necessary.

I believe that for the past 10 years or so, all Macs have been able to auto-detect direct connections, making a crossover cable unnecessary as you say; I presume Windows PCs and Linux machines have the same capability.

[tmtomh]

So from your 10 years experience what do you think about the reliability of OPPO players and the after sales support (including out-of-warranty repair) ? I'm currently debating whether I should return my Pioneer BDP-80FD for another one, or just buy an OPPO 103. Like you, I'll be using the player for ripping SACD only. Not sure it justifies the extra cost.

I have a 105, but the 103 also is a fantastic machine. But if you're using it only as an SACD ripper, there's no need to spend the extra money.

 

If, however, you might use it to play SACDs, and/or if you want DVD-A support, then the 103 would be worth it in my opinion. Oppo occasionally has Oppo certified refurb'd 103s for only $415, which is a great deal, as even used 103s on eBay with zero warranty usually sell for about $400 anyway.

[tmtomh]

Got an Oppo 103. Big, big difference. It not only worked first time around on my LAN, but I have been able to connect it directly to a Mac Mini using Ethernet without much trouble (or any should I say).

Would not recommend the Pioneer. While the Oppo is much more expensive, it works just right.

Thanks for this. I might have missed this in an earlier post, but isn't this the first confirmation we have that the Oppo will work directly connected to a computer, without having to go through a network router? If so, this is great information for those who, for whatever reason, don't want their Oppo to be connected to the internet.

[tmtomh]

Concerning auto firmware updates: is that even an option for the Oppo? I'm pretty sure that you can set it to informing you if a new update is available, but you will always have to start the process yourself.

Auto-updates aren't an option. You are correct that the automatic option is only about whether or not the machine automatically notifies you if an update is available; you still have to manually choose to apply the update.

[tmtomh]

I am looking for an inexpensive unit...new if possible. Will the quality of the unit make a difference if it is only going to be used for ripping SACDs?

As long as it has the right chipset, and your particular unit will read SACDs (some folks have found their Pioneer units won't read the SACD layer of hybrid SACDs), the quality and functionality of your rips should be digitally identical to what you'd get with a more expensive unit.

 

The only issue would be long-term reliability and potential inconsistency with reading SACDS as time goes on and the unit gets more wear on it.

[tmtomh]

OS X has telnet, and sacd_extract is compiled for OS X as well, so one can just use "sacd_extract -i ip-address-here:2002 -P -I" from the Terminal. Why should this not work?

It should indeed work fine.

 

Just a small clarification for those less tech-savvy who might be reading this: It is possible that if you try to telnet into your Oppo from your Mac, it will fail. But that does NOT necessarily mean SACD ripping won't work. Many of us with Macs (and maybe some with PCs too?) have not been able to actually telnet into our Oppos, but the ripping process has worked fine anyway.

[tmtomh]

My extracts start out at 1.8 to 2.0mbps and top out around 3.1. The average at the end of a rip usually is in the 2.8 area.

 

My setup is Oppo 105 -> wired ethernet -> Airport Extreme router -> wi-fi -> iMac

[tmtomh]

Very interesting. So the wifi bottleneck is at the BDP's side.

I hadn't thought of that, but you very well could be right. I don't recall - is the Oppo's wi-fi dongle a "G" or "N" dongle? If it's a G, then that could explain the slow speeds - G theoretically has plenty of speed, but in practice it's much slower and less robust than N. Even if it's an N dongle but is limited to the 2.4GHz band (as opposed to 5GHz), that could possibly explain the slowdown since the 2.4GHz band is very crowded.