Focusrite REDNet

[jelt2359]

Here is a post that will probably be of some interest from "Atomic Bob" on other thread:

 

XMOS XU208 USB BRIDGES - THE LATEST GEN HAS ARRIVED! - Page 180

 

 

Thanks. This will have to do while we wait for your microrendu comparison.

 

No pressure.

[jelt2359]

Rednet D16 is up and running. While I will need a day or two to put it through its paces, I wanted to give some operational details. First, it took me about 90 minutes to set up (unpack, physical connections, product registrations, software downloads and sw set-up). In this regard it's not as plug n play as the uRendu. However, I got there. Second, the ASIO virtual sound card has successfully worked with JRMC, HQPlayer, Bug Head/Infinity Blade, and Roon/Tidal. For some reason (not sure why) I thought the Rednet would not work with Roon/Tidal but it does - no problem. So every player I've tried works without any hiccups or drop-outs. As several others have said above, sample rates need to be set manually in the SW - it does not do so automatically. As has also been mentioned before, this product is for PCM only (No DSD) with 192MHz limit. I'm currently running the Rednet D16 to the Mutec MC3 USB + (for reclocking) and the Mutec into an Yggy. All connections are AES (no USB what so ever).

 

I needed to contact Focusrite support because I could not find the "token" needed for free Audinate Virtual Sound Card download. I actually called up and got a live person to talk to right away. Sweetwater also provides free 24 month phone support. This shows I believe the Pro Audio roots of the product.

 

More to come...

 

Roon/tidal is on local machine?

[jelt2359]

Yes, Roon is on the PC attached to the D16 via ethernet. The Rednet does not come with Roon SW. However, I am just confirming that within Roon the Audinate Virtual Sound Card was easily identified as an audio zone. For some reason I thought Roon/Tidal would not work with the Dante device but I am happily mistaken.

 

got it. Meaning that Roon works- just gotta attach the Rednet to the Roon server. Was NAA the same?

[jelt2359]

Yes, Roon works with local PC (RoonServer) connection to Rednet. No official Roon Ready implementation like uRendu. I was able to play HQP within Roon (or as stand alone player) without issue. All audio connections so far with DVS/Ethernet have been (knock on wood) rock solid.

 

nice. So works as it should, then.

[jelt2359]

IMO, the Mutec reclocking was a positive across all chains. If the Mutec were removed, the relative ranks (D16>uRendu>dual PC) would remain intact. It's hard for me to attach sound quality % for every component. I agree with the old adage "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture". I'll just say music with the Mutec has always moved me a little bit more when it is in the chain.

 

thank you again. How much of an improvement would you say the Rednet was, over the microrendu?

 

this piques my interest but I am probably going to wait until, like Mutec with the 3+ USB, they build an audiophile device. Smaller, 2 ch only, multiple sampling modes.

[jelt2359]

I've got a D16 and I can't figure out why I don't have subscription status in the Network Tab in the Dante Controller.

 

What (obvious) setting or item am I missing in my setup?

 

I also have a MicroRendu and can't wait to make the comparison.

 

Thanks,

 

Joel

 

 

Looking forward to this too!

[jelt2359]

Here is my subjective assessment (rank order):

 

1) D16>Mutec MC3 + USB> Yggy

2) uRendu>Mutec MC3 + USB>Yggy

3) Dual PC (CAPS Pipeline)>Mutec MC3+ USB>Yggy

 

I went deep into last night and this morning listening, comparing and taking notes. What struck me is that while my notes for uRendu and my Dual PC set-up contained comments about frequency extention, tonality, noise floor and timing, my comments on the D16 set-up were much less technical and much more emotional. I wrote down "engaging", "immersive","fluid" and "liquid". I connected more to the music with the Rednet set-up.

 

All the usual caveats apply. This is one persons opinion and I'm not making any definitive declarations about products or technologies.

 

 

For those interested in Rednet (AOIP) solutions, I will say the following:

 

a) The market for Rednet (Dante) gear is Pro Audio - not consumer. The D16 is overkill from a consumer standpoint. I really only need a small 2 channel device with AES. I have a full, very solid 1 rack unit device with 16 channels and connections I will never use. The uRendu by comparison is the size of a pack of cards.

 

b) As has been mentioned before but bares repeating - The device does not auto-switch for varying sample rates. If you are playing a 44Khz track and want to play a 192Khz track you need to go into the SW and manually switch 44 to 192. Not a big deal for me but for some this may be problematic. There is talk that there may be firmware later this summer that will address this. However, I have not seen confirmation in writing from the Mfg.

 

c)The D16 took a bit of time to set up and configure. While the uRendu was plug and play (10 minutes) It took me about an hour and a half to be up and running with the D16. It's not really that complicated after the first couple of times. There are even you tube videos available to help you get oriented. In comparison, dual PC systems in my experience with SW like Jplay, AO, and Bitsum are at least if not more complicated and more finicky.

 

d) As with many pro devices, you will not find a USB connection anywhere. This means no DSD.

 

If you have no problems with any of the above, you may want to check out AOIP products like the Rednet. The D16-Mutec-Yggy combo is now my main system with the following benefits:

 

 

- Best SQ that I have experienced to date in my system.

- I can still use all the playback SW I have with the free ASIO Virtual Sound Card that comes with unit (Roon/Tidal, Infinity Blade, JRMC, HQP).

- Connection is rock solid. No musical drop outs or sw glitches/crashes. Infinity Blade which I've always liked was very temperamental in dual PC/Jplay set up. It runs like a dream with D16.

 

While your caveats a, b and c keep me on the sidelines for now, I'm curious- have your impressions changed, when comparing Rednet to microrendu, now that you've had it for a while?

[jelt2359]

Thanks. Was not really sure but that makes sense.

 

My personal subjective experience based upon replacing a pretty tweaked USB chain that included a REGEN, which I liked a lot, and a MUtec +3 USB , is that the REDNet devices offer a very big improvement over USB in nearly all areas of my listening experience.

 

I have not tried using the Mutec as an external clock but found that letting it re-clock after the D16 was a worthwhile improvement, enough to justify keeping it in my system regardless of it's expense.

 

I think that for audiophiles the direction of AOIP is so new that a lot of folks are curious but trying to sort out hype and speculation from content. I do find the bickering and passive aggressive posts a turn off. If I was new and reading this thread to gain information I might turn away without being able to form an opinion about the benefits... which I think are considerable.

 

I feel the same way about the new direction. What I continue to be most intrigued by is- is USB really the devil, or is one device just better than the other? I'll pretty much stake my entire fortune that, far from going away, USB is just going to get better and better over the next five years as you get more people going from analog to digital- and everyone starts with a computer source. That means USB, and that means all DACs are gonna have this input. But that's my personal reading of the crystal ball...

 

I also echo the appropriate tone. Some threads in other forums sometimes come across in a way that I do not personally enjoy. On CA though the tone of discussion is quite civil, and nobody seems to take things personally- which is always nice. Keep it up guys!

[jelt2359]

I am curious how much taking USB out of the chain is due to the specific dac's implementation. I think the Yggy's (which I own) is not ideal, with numerous reports of the Mutec being a big improvement.

 

Whats interesting is there's a growing club on another site who are using the microRendu with the Chord Dave, who's designer has gone on record to say that USB is that dac's best input because their implementation has built-in galvanic isolation. This is unfortunate for me as it may not work well with my Mutec, given that I have a microRendu input already occupying the sole USB port.

 

Another alternative is AES in to the Mutec (from the Rednet) and then USB out. Who knows, that may in fact provide the best sq of all even for the Chord Dave.

[jelt2359]

Good point about the quality of USB engineering for specific DACs although pretty much everyone reporting back on their RedNet devices have seen improvement. As far as the Iggy I have read that even one of it's designers prefers the AES input. That is what I am using with a Mutec +3 USB between D16 and DAC.

 

Regarding "AES in to the Mutec (from the Rednet) and then USB out" I believe that the Mutec only has USB input.

 

That would make sense, but the Mutec manual does say USB input/output. I'm still waiting on my Mutec so I can't test this unfortunately. This might ultimately be a reason to purchase a Rednet to try with chord Dave for me, if the Mutec does indeed do USB out.

 

Anyhow the Mutec this does not work optically with the dave I intend to leave it permanently hooked up to the yggy.

[jelt2359]

So I picked a Rednet 3 up to try with my Out of Your Head software, since that software requires a single sampling rate output. I'm hoping the Rednet adds sampling rate support as promised anyway.

 

I see that there is an AES connector (DB25) possible. Why are people choosing the D16 over the RN3 if this is the case?

[jelt2359]

Just my 2 cents:

- D16 is based on their later Brooklyn II board which supports the 176.4kHz sample rate and also is the (only) board by Dante which supports the AES67 interoperability protocol.

- D16 has two ethernet ports instead of only 1 with RN3. Two ports allow for easier setups in consumer environments if people want to avoid using (and configuring of managed) switches.

- D16 has a 1U height instead of the 2U height from RN3.

- RN3 has a lot of optical input but those are only ADAT capable and not SPDIF, so not of much use to the consumer user.

 

cheers

 

Thanks. I understand RN3 also supports Dante? And would I need optical input if I'm using Ethernet in?

[jelt2359]

RN3 is Dante.

No you wouldn't, but some wanted to use optical output which didn't work fo them because it is ADAT and not SPDIF

 

Thanks, I understand now.

 

Would AES67 confer any additional advantages over what's used in the RN3?

[jelt2359]

Just joined this group with a RN3, wondering if anyone has fit an LPS to this?

[jelt2359]

Thanks for the info. Turns out the Rednet Control has the wrong timestamp- although it's stated as updated in July, it's actually the new version.

 

Updated now. Does anyone else notice that you need to keep the Rednet Control open? When I try to close it it warns me that I'm on 'follow' mode. I say yes, close, and then it stops switching.

 

Also, when I switch between songs with different sampling rates, there's no sound for like a few seconds (I guess the device is switching). Is this normal?

[jelt2359]

Thanks for the work! I am using windows. Mutec and Focusrite have now taught me one great thing: these companies (I'm now tempted to say "pro audio companies in general") are professional outfits that meet their promised timelines. I've rarely seen an "audiophile" company deliver on time, upgrades that do exactly what they promise

[jelt2359]

Just a heads up that Focusrite has released an update for Rednet Control to version 2.0 with a corresponding firmware update.

 

It has a number of fixes that now makes sample rate following work smoothly. It also saves your settings, has a new interface, and does not exit Rednet Control if you exit windows remote desktop.

 

Thanks! I'm not sure my RN3 updated properly- any way to manually update the firmware?

[jelt2359]

Over on Headfi @Torq did a comparison of sources for his Holo Spring Dac review and felt the Aries was similar to the Rednet, given the Aries is more hifi friendly isn't that the better option?

'

With the Holo Audio Spring DAC I found that the I2S input fed from 2015 Mac Pro -> USB -> Singxer SU-1 -> I2S was audibly superior, if only slightly, to ethernet (air-gapped or direct) into Auralic Aries OR RedNet 3 -> AES/EBU XLR.

 

So even with USB in the chain, that particular DDC/DAC setup does out perform an AOIP/AES interface.'

Different DACs. The Holo has as its best input the i2s. On my Chord Dave, the Optical sounds noticeably superior to AES (both output from the same Mutec 3+ USB). This was quite surprising to me. You'll have to experiment on your own DAC.

[jelt2359]

I didn't have a firmware update. It said it saw new firmware, but the update didn't apply any new firmware.

 

My current firmware, after update, is 2.14.1425

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

 

Thanks. Is that RN3? My RN3 is 1.5.1458

[jelt2359]

Rednet Control 2.1 is out. It sounds sonically better to me- bigger soundstage, more precise imaging. The 2.0.3 sounds warmer, has more body, but has less detail.

 

I accidentally heard the difference because I'm trying to get Rednet Control to do sample rate follow even with it closed on windows 2016 core mode.

 

The support mentioned they were using 2.0.3, and I realised I was using 2.1 so I downgraded to try. That's when I heard the difference. BTW, both don't work- Rednet Control must be open for sample rate follow to work...

[jelt2359]

Does it?? Is it auto? I went from 2.1 to 2.03 and heard a decrease in SQ before going back up to 2.1. 

[jelt2359]

I was exchanging PMs with someone from the JPlay forums and he mentioned he installed the PCIE R card to good improvements, and with that he no longer needs to use DVS either.

 

Too bad my mini PC has no PCI slot.

[jelt2359]

It's automatic.

[jelt2359]

Under sample rate follow, you can choose global or for just the rednet device- choose your computer to follow. They pretty much specifically built this feature for us audiophiles!

[jelt2359]

Yes, it is. It's been available in previous versions, though.