Quality of the digital outputs of the Transporter compared to the best transports

[loserica]

Hello,

 

I have both SqueezeBox Classic (SB3) and a SqueezeBox Duet, and I came to the conclusion that the quality of their digital outputs is quite inferior to that of the best classic CD transports.

 

I am considering buying a Transporter, since I really like the slim devices interface. I want to be able to use it in the future with an external DAC, but I do not want to pay the penalty of an inferior transport/digital output, compared to the best options on the market.

 

So, Has anybody compared the :

1) digital outputs of the Transporter to the ones on the Squeezebox(es) ?

2) digital outputs of the Transporter to the digital outputs of some really good transports

 

Also, what kind an improvement I would get from using a word clock out from a DAC feeding the word clock in of the Transporter ? Besides EMM, Esoteric and dCS, what others DAC's have word clock out ?

And another question : what other options would you consider if you were in my place ? (PS Audio PWT maybe ?)

 

PS : I live in Europe and I don't have the possibility to "try before buy", else I wouldn't be posting this.

 

Thanks

 

[sandyk]

loserica

I posted the comments at the attached link in June 2007. I have also heard a friend's 2 Squeezeboxes, and was singularly unimpressed. They do however improve considerably after PSU modifications, and also internal PSU area modifications. A voltage inverter used to drive the display appears to be a big part of the problem.

SandyK

 

 

http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=378&page=1

 

[loserica]

Thanks SandyK

 

I do not think that your test is relevant to me though, because :

1 - I do not want to use the Transporter using its analog outs

2 - You used a $999 DAC, I want to use something in the price range of EMM Labs DCC2, or Berkeley Alpha DAC (maybe Weiss DAC2 at least)

3 - It could be that the Transporter digital out would get significantly better if the clock of the DAC is fed to the Transporter via the Word Clock In input (it is possible with EMM Labs DCC2 for example)

 

What I am really asking is :

Did someone compare a well known combo , for instance EMM CDSD + DCC2 (SE or not), by swapping the transport (CDSD in this case) with the Transporter ? And what were the results ? I would get really lucky to get feedback from someone that has such an experience (and maybe he tried a Squeezebox too as the transport in such a system, and can comment of its quality vs the Transporter)

 

Thanks

 

[BobH]

I own both the SB Duet and the Transporter - the latter I've had for about a month. My initial impressions are, pound for pound, that the Transporter gives me very little in return for the additional expense. That's not to say it isn't better, because it is, but the differences are definitely incremental and not night and day. It is somewhat more tonally correct, smoother and less sibilant in high frequencies. For want of a better description, more 'valve-like' would do it for me!

 

Both the Duet and the Transporter arewere fed into either a Promitheus Dac or a Tact 2.0s. The analogue outputs of both boxes are really not up to it so, again, the Transporter gives me very little. (Although if you do run them without an external dac the Transporter is considerably better than the Duet).

 

Comparisons between a Transporter and a true high-end Cd transport/dac combination are difficult to make, more so when you start talking about Esoterics and dCS's! The Transporter is designed to compliment a computer as source and, as such, is a completely different beast. Subjectively, we would all hope that our computers give us at least equal sound quality but, once you get down to the nitty-gritty, we're in vinly vs CD, Mac vs PC territory - too difficult to make qualitative judgements, IMHO. You either like it or you don't!

 

I've not had the opportunity to test it with an external clock, but this was another plus point I took into consideration when deciding whether or not to go for it. The facility is there for playing with at a later date!

 

Ok then, am I happy with the Transporter? Yes I am. The user interface and experience is much better than the Duet. It streams 24/96. It is perfectly happy to sit on an 'ad-hoc' network, so installation is a snap. It has balanced inputs and outputs. (Which was a criteria for me when trying to sort out what to get). It has a ludicrously gaudy display, which I absolutely love!

 

The Transporter is a strange beast - it is most certainly not cheap, for what it is, and its feature set is quite unique. Really, that is where my advice would come from, if the feature set is what you are looking for then you will not be disappointed - it is a good piece of kit. In terms of absolute sound quality, yes, it can be bettered. But we can say that about just about everything we ever buy!

 

[Andrew S.]

Hi

I agree the stock SB is terrible as a digital transport.

I owned at the same times a Transporter, a stock SB3, a couple modded SB3's +/- Linear psu, a Lavry DA10 dac, a Valabs dac and had a Meridian 508.24 and G08 borrowed for a couple weeks while I mucked around with the various combo's.

The modded SB3 (pulse transformer mod bypassing L8/L9) spdif out performed pretty much the same as the TP spdif out.

The TP AES was better than the spdif out - but not huge amounts, into the Lavry.

Both Meridians were superior as transports to either the TP or the SB. The G08 was the best of the lot as a transport but I had a bigger soft spot for the 508 as a CD player.

The Lavry DA10 is a very good dac but a little boring after a while. I like the Valabs. I like the better Audio Note's as well.

I dislike the analogue out of the TP - 2D, bland and hi fi.

I hear the new SB Touch has an upgraded spdif out.

Of course you can greatly improve the source by popping a reclocker in the middle eg Antelope or some such.

I don't own any of the above anymore - save a later Valabs: which is great fun but hardly anything other than cheap and cheerful.

Hope that is some use.

Best Wishes

Andrew

 

[loserica]

Thanks Bob,

 

Well, If I could get my hands on a Transporter , I could definitely test it versus the EMM Labs CDSD + DCC2 combo (upgraded to the SE version), one of my friends has this combo and his system is also very revealing.

He also tested the PS Audio PWT and found it inferior to the CDSD, but not by a very big margin.

 

The problem is that we do not know anyone who has a Transporter, so we could test it, and I am a bit reluctant to buy it just to test it (even if I would buy it from audiogon at around $1300)

 

In theory, I do not see why the Transporter should be inferior to any SOTA transport, as long as the Transporter is slaved to the clock in the DAC. But from theory to practice there is a long way, this is why I am asking for your opinions. Also, I am curious about the difference that the world clock in would make.

 

Adrian

 

[BobH]

One of the problems with the SB family in general, is that they're not marketed in the 'normal' way - for audiophiles that is! I tried the Duet first on the basis that I probably wouldn't lose too much if it didn't work out, but the descision to buy the Transporter had a small leap of faith firmly attached to it! Not good but, as you rightly point out, getting hold of one for audition just isn't going to happen unless you know someone.

 

As for the word clock, here I would make a real world judgement. In the UK these units retail for £1300. Between Logitech (Slim Devices) and the end user, a lot of people make a profit. That profit would be greater, or the unit cheaper, without the word clock facility. As with the balanced ins and outs, I just don't think that Slim Devices would have gone to the trouble of fitting it unless they thought that it would make a worthwhile difference. It's definitely on my list of things to look at, when the time is right, and I would wholly expect a quantifiable increase in sound quality. As and when I start to feel that 'incurable itch', I shall look at it.

 

Until such time as I've tried a clock, I shall stick to my guns as regards sound quality - there is a small improvement in quality over a Duet but it is the hardware facilities that make the real difference. The ability to add a clock, balanced connections, excellent power supply, user interface and overall 'feel' of living with the thing. With the introduction of 24/96 streaming with the Touch, the price hike most definitely has to make sense in areas other than the 'out of the box' sound quality.

 

BTW - I love mine! I tend to draw a little shy of statements regarding outright quality comparisons - we're all after slightly different things most of the time - but I don't regret buying it and, AFAIC, its head and shoulders above anything else I've ever owned and most of what I've heard!

 

[peechus]

got a nice round of opinions,may i hitch a ride here? i am totally [singly?] in need of a superior internet tuner...period. will the transporter be the answer for me? i have dacs,pre/pro,i macs,and the sb3 classic. longing for better internet radio. directions anyone?

 

[masterlazy]

I had bought a Transporter, and requested APL Hifi mod it. Oh, it is very good, I hear it better and better for burn-in time.

it is detail as 32 bits/216 Khz digital and sweet as tube.

 

[BobH]

The answer to your question, IMHO, is no! I don't think the limiting factor is the replay hardware but the stream itself. I played around with this for a while and eventually decided to give up on putting it through the hifi because everytime I tried something, my system simply highlighted the shortcomings of internet radio, in terms of sound quality, - that is, the bit rate of the stream. I just couldn't live with it, not when I've got hard drives full of beautifully recorded loveliness!! :0)

 

So, I stumped up for a Pure Evoke Flow. This is a stand alone ghetto blaster type thingy that hooks into your wireless network. It does iPod, DAB, FM and will even stream audio from a networked music folder/hard drive. The beauty of it is that, like most of its type, it is built to make rubbish bit rates sound good. Like sticking that hideously over-compressed CD in the car - generally they sound great! And sound good it most definitely does!

 

I love internet radio and my Flow invariably provides the sound track to my day, when I'm not in the music room. It beefs up the sound a treat and even does a great job with DAB radio - no mean feat! That would be where I would spend the bucks, anyway. I'm sure others have equally valid kit suggestions, but until they start streaming at least 16/44.1 I'll stick with my Flow.