Ayre Acoustics QX-5 Twenty – The Digital Hub

[ctsooner]

Nice thread, glad I found it. Great info and thanks. The DAC is 8950 as was reported. Allegedly Ayre will send out one DAC per dealer to start with. It will be a very tight release. That's probably due to the availably of the chip for now. As was stated, Alex would never let this thing fly until they KNEW when they would have the chips to install. I know during the Twenty upgrades of the AX-5 Twenty, they had a problem sourcing one component and had to slow down their conventions. I was lucky as I had one of the first ones since it was through the dealer's demo, but there was a long wait on getting those done. They and Vandersteen are two of the top companies going in regards to only releasing things when they know they can deliver. I assume that full production will most probably be in July or so, but that's only a guess based on conversations with folks.

 

I've decided to sell my Empirical Audio OSDE/SE fully loaded to get this DAC as I know Ayre products and I feel strongly it will beat the sound of my DAC (which to many of us sounds a bit better than the Berkley Ref DAC). I have a rebuilt Mac Mini server with a ton of well recorded high rez music that was built by Steven Nuggent of Empirical (with a separate Hynes power supply) that I will sell also. I've been looking at the Melco N1ZH (their TOL NAS/server, streamer) as I want something easier to use than the Mac. I was almost ready to pull the trigger months ago until I was told to hold off for this Ayre. I'm glad I did as I love the integration of everything that I personally will use. I do wish it had an SSD hard drive built in also as I hate extra components in the system.

 

The Codex is a huge winner in it's price range and this QX-5 Twenty will kick ass in it's own right I"m sure. As an IEM user (weekend mornings or late at night), I'm so glad they have added a top of the line headphone amp too. From the look on the panel, it doesn't look balanced though. AS for MQA, they will add it later on only if it takes off at the root level. They will need to see studio's pick it up as that's the only way it's viable. Warner is the first, but it will be interesting to see if they do their whole catalog or just selected parts of. Will they do all their new stuff in MQA? Topic for another thread, but this is Ayre's stance and it probably makes sense. Also, MQA isn't high rez and even though I've heard it, it wasn't in my system obviously, but I'm not sure it sounded better than my high rez stuff. I do stream Tidal like many of you, so MQA would be nice, but not a deal breaker for me at this time.

 

Hope I haven't offended anyone with my post. Thanks.

[ctsooner]

Thanks for the pics. So it is balanced headphones. Even better buy, lol. I assumed they would as they are all about balanced, but I didn't ask when I spoke to them about it. appreciate the pics.

[ctsooner]

I have the AX-5 Twenty. Once of the best integrated's I've ever heard. Just an amazing amp. You will not regret it at all.

[ctsooner]

My Empirical OSDE/SE has a digital/analog volume control and I won't use it. I've A/B'd going the direct route on may occasions and I've never heard it sound better than if you use a really good pre. This one will be interesting to test as it's an Ayre. I'd be open minded and if I liked it as much, I'd sell the AX-5 Twenty and get a used MX-R and do the Twenty upgrade, lol..... or maybe the VX-5 Twenty as that's a KILLER amp too.

[ctsooner]

Great to see balanced headphone capacity. What kind of jacks are on the front, quarter inch? Wonder why they didn't use a standard four pin style single jack for the headphones?

 

don't know the answer, but it's the same on their Codex too. Many of us like to use the 2.5mm connections as we do on our portable units, lol. Just means another cable to buy. My IEM's have the two pin connection and it's a bear to change out.

[ctsooner]

Your questions may all be answered soon.

 

The North American debut of the QX-5 will be at Audio Consultants (I work there) in Evanston Illinois ( Chicago area ) on Saturday June 18 from 11 to 5. Alex Brinkman of Ayre will be there to demonstrate the unit and answer questions.

 

Alex will then take the QX-5 to California the following Saturday for a showing at Music Lovers in Berkeley.

 

Thanks Scott. Awesome stuff. Really looking forward to hearing it. Alex has been excited about it for a while now and I'm sure it won't disappoint. I spoke with someone who has heard it a few times and felt it was as good digital as he's heard. he also likes the Brinkmann Nyqvist. CAn't wait until the new chips are released and they can go into full production mode.

[ctsooner]

Thanks Scott. Awesome stuff. Really looking forward to hearing it. Alex has been excited about it for a while now and I'm sure it won't disappoint. I spoke with someone who has heard it a few times and felt it was as good digital as he's heard. he also likes the Brinkmann Nyqvist. CAn't wait until the new chips are released and they can go into full production mode.

 

Looking forward to hearing how it went Scott. Time to get my Empirical OSDE/SE and Synchro Mesh on the market, lol.

[ctsooner]

All of Jordan's ( Blackstone) files were Flacs so he can't comment on DSD.

 

The QX-5 was set up Friday evening and , being dead cold, sounding thin and bright. We kept it playing overnight, and while much better in the morning, wasn't really right until late Saturday afternoon. By 5:30 Alex had to leave with it so I never had a chance to do anything like a proper evaluation. Nothing I heard on DSD tracks lead me to believe the QX-5 wouldn't handle all formats with equal aplomb, but this is a highly preliminary conclusion. Jordan is one of the few people who got to hear the setup sounding at its best. It should be noted that while the QX-5 was playing at a high level by the end of the day, it probably needs a few hundred more hours to reach full potential.

 

BTW The QX-5 is currently limited to DSD128 but this is a limitation of the current firmware,,not the hardware.

Thanks guys. Been waiting on this unit since Alex spoke to me about it a couple of months ago. I sold my Empirical OSDE this morning in hopes that the Ayre will be as good or better. That's a very very high bar as the OSDE is just a smudge behind, but not far. I trust Ayre. I will most probably get the Melco too in order to hold my music and stream. Some redundancy with the QX5, but not a big deal. Too bad the Melco can't be controlled via an iPad and it's not a Roon ready machine yet because Roon need to make it compatible. Nothing that the Melco guys can do they told me.

 

Scott or anyone else, will I be able to use Roon with an iPad and the Ayre or do I have to have a PC to run things? I want easy not more difficult. What app did you use for the Melco and or the Ayre? Scott have you hear the Berkley Ref? If so, in your initial opinion will the Ayre be close? thanks all

[ctsooner]

Scott, thanks. I know the Melco is the best NAS, but it just seems like it's complicated to run the Ayre with the Melco. Which app do you use? I only want something that I can run fully with my iPad. I assume that adding MQA is a hardware update and not a software one, correct? I also use Linn Kazoo for my Linn Kiko system. I'll look to see if that can also run the Melco. Roon just isn't making sense to me. For me to have to purchase come sort of computer device just to run a nice program seems ridiculous to me. I know I'm not in the minority here either. Everyone I've spoken with wants things to work as a plug and play system. Fewer boxes etc. is what most want alone with SQ. I'm now a free agent and will audition every DAC/server I can. Right now I have faith in Ayre and everything Alex told me about it, but in the end, unless I can use Roon from an iPad (seems like I can't) then the Roon endpoint is just that. The end I think. I also need an easy way to just upload CD;s and for them to get the metadata on their own. I"m not that computer savvy I guess. We will see how it all plays out. When will the QX5 truly be ready for shipment do you think? Are you just taking orders now? thanks.

[ctsooner]

Well I sold the Empirical OSDE/SE and having sellers remorse lol. Will order the Melco this week and then get on the list for the QX-5 It better be much better than the OSDE which has been a world beater and is under 10k. If not, it will be gone quickly lol.

[ctsooner]

I did read that Ayre demoed the QX5 Twenty with a Melco unit. Which Melco are you buying and have you compared them?

 

Yes Ayre uses the Melco N1A as a NAS only. They connect it with the USB I believe he said. They haven't sat and listened to the difference between USB and Ethernet yet (for those who will use a QNAP 471 NAS and run Roon and HQPlayer and use the Ethernet connections only). Based on what I've heard the Melco is the best sounding NAS, but I was told by someone intimately familiar with the QNAP 471, that when running Roon and HQPlayer it will sound just as good as good as the Melco and give you all the flexibility you would want. Really excited about this product and am pretty high up on the list to get one in a few weeks once they get all the units out to the dealers. This new ESS pro chip really seems to be special as Ayre and Mytek are both using it and right now in their price points I feel both make a very nice sounding DAC.

[ctsooner]

I just remembered something else really neat. During the demo we were able to use the Roon remote on the ipad to control the QX-5's onboard 32 bit volume control!

 

How was it set up that you were able to use Roon with the Melco? Did you have Roon running on a NUC (I believe that's the term)? Did you also use HQPlayer? Thanks Blackstone.

[ctsooner]

We did not use Roon with the Melco. Roon core was running on a PC. We used the Melco later. You can't use Roon with a Melco because it uses an ARM processor.

 

That's why it caught me off guard. I have emailed a bit with Alan at Melco and he said that Roon is working at trying to make their product work with an ARM processor. I'm back and forth daily with getting the Melco and using it as a NAS via USB into the QX or getting the QNAP 471 NAS to run Roon Core and I believe it can also run the HQPlayer (not totally sure as I'm learning) and setting it up the way they say on their site to use all 4 bays in a Raid 1 and also have the back up built in. I don't have ethernet ports in the house so I'd have to have someone run a line from the basement upstairs or use an airport extreme with an Apple Time Machine that I'm going to probably get soon anyways. So many choices. I was told that the Ethernet connections if set up properly and isolated will be a quieter connection than any USB regardless of how much thought they put it to the USB connection. So much for newbies to learn

[ctsooner]

I was told USB is still the best. I would not overthink your front end until you have the QX-5 and break it in. If you go Ethernet I hear Cat 7 cable is the way to go. Eventually Melco will need to address Roon support because the industry seems to be headed in that direction. I would just wait on the Melco and see what the QX can do first.

 

I will tinker with hq player. I have never heard it.

 

I actually am going to be speaking with a couple of guys who have a large thread on Audiogon about this. I have held off on the front end to see where things are headed. I do want to get my CD's onto a disk drive etc, but I love Tidal and can stream that from the QX direction I believe. for now, I'll have to use an Airport Extreme for that I think. I still use the TT a lot too. Yes, Cat 7 is the best way to go right now and no one I know questions that. Possibly the engineers who say that copper is copper etc... may disagree. not sure about that and don't care, lol. Melco can't do anything to get Roon to run on it's system. That's why Roon is working on getting it to run in an ARM processor. That's all on Roon and I can't find out where they stand on that.

[ctsooner]

Just to clarify, I only heard the Melco via ethernet, not usb. There was a hiccup and we could not get it to work.

 

As to the Melco's quality, dealer assured me it surpassed everything they tried, including their attempts to create a bespoke custom server PC and competing devices, even with SoTm usb filters and all that stuff.

 

Heard similar too, but no one I know likes the Melco control apps. I have all Apple gear and want to use my iPad to control my system. I am fully aware of the SSD Melco. the best they have done so far is offer the same Melco with three power supplies in a HDD version. Was told it's awesome, but not the same as the SSD. The other option I have is just getting an Aurender for now and downloading my high res stuff to that and then ripping to the Aurender and letting everything else play out. If I get the Aurender, then I can set up a NUC for Roon if I even want that. I did like the Aurender app on it's own.

[ctsooner]

Ok, so now I've spoke with someone who makes their own server using top grade parts and software etc... He can build in an A/D converter and put in an AES3 connection as it would most probably sound best with the Ayre. I have also spoken with Neal Van Berg who builds the Music Vault. I like his Diamond Ultra streamer/server. A close friend has one and swears by it. It has Roon built in, a blue ray ripper with dbpoweramp and a 2T or 4T WD Cloud for back up, an A/D converter to rip my albums and it can use an external clock if I ever want to go there. I've heard his older models and for the time, they were the best I had heard. He knows what he's doing and supports his products as good as anyone I know.

 

I'm still open, but these last two options seem to sound better than the Aurender N10 in USB form. I probably can't go wrong with either as the interface is nice and they are versatile. Has anyone heard the MV yet? I'd love impressions from others. Thanks.

[ctsooner]

I'd just purchase a reputable USB A/D converter instead of building one in. An RME or something similar.

 

thanks. I guess that could make sense. Just liked the idea of it being built right into the server/streamer. Dr Tone, what server do you use?

[ctsooner]

Virtual with iSCSI LUNS on my NAS for storage. I don't waste audiophile money at the server my expectation bias of it not making a difference saves me money.

 

 

Not sure if I understand. Are you saying that you don't feel a server make a difference? If so, have you ever auditioned various servers? Honestly, I've heard some bigger differences in servers than I have in turntable/arm/cartridges. I don't think I fully understand what your saying. Sorry. thanks

[ctsooner]

A server to me is no where near my audio equipment and only accessible through my network. I think server is a direct connected source to you?

 

yes, it's directly connected to the DAC. I take it your server is on the NAS and connected via the ethernet? I'm still learning about the digital side so that's why I say I don't understand. I've heard folks who use a server built into their NAS and I didn't like how it sounded at all. It was at a dealer who knew how to build things out. They are also a Wilson dealer and I hope no-one takes this the wrong way, Wilson's just aren't my kind of speaker, so that may have had something to do with it. It was all played through Ayre ref gear and I am an Ayre guy. I'm very familiar with Wilson's sound and I am very familiar with the Ayre ref gear too, but when we played the same tracks through an Aurender N10 all of us liked it better. Not sure if I'll understand your set up, but I need to ask so I can learn. thanks and please don't take my post on Wilson's or any of this as negative. Just not for me, that's all.

[ctsooner]

My back end server is more of a corporate type environment for redundancy, easy expansion, and cloud backups. It was never designed specifically for audio. No offense, I don't think I could explain it and have you ever understand it.

 

I have a dedicated windows 10 box with a sotm battery powered usb card feeding my dac. It's running roonbridge.

 

No offense take on the Wilsons different strokes for different folks, but trying to compare music sources "servers in your words" across completely different analog audio harware is something I wouldn't even bother doing for obvious reasons. There needs to be some common frame of reference on the analog side.

 

.02

 

Well put and I totally agree. The nice thing is that I do understand the basics and understand lot's of what you are talking about. I have been speaking recently with a lot of Windows architects I guess you'd call them, so I am learning a lot. Soon I may even be able to put it together and figure out things even more. Are you saying in your last sentence that all digital will sound differently on whatever amps I'll be using? Not sure I understood, but thanks for sharing what you have. Lot's of cool stuff.

[ctsooner]

No I was saying it would be impossible to tell the difference between digital front ends if you don't keep the analogue back end constant. You can't tell the difference between the microRendu and a macmini when one is played through a Ayre and Wilsons and the other through McIntosh and Magico. Brands as an example only.

 

I understand what you are saying. I go to that dealer regularly and know the equipment very well so when he plays two different digital pieces I can make a good general idea of what something sound like based on what I'm looking for. There are a few dealers I'm friendly with and have or do business with where i know the system and room and can make a pretty good evaluation for myself. the problem I have in trying to chose what to do on my digital front end is that I can't hear any of these servers that guys are putting together in their homes. It stinks for me since I bet some are better for the price than what I'll be getting. I can go hear the Music Vault in a system I"m fairly familiar with and I'll probably borrow a friends Aurender N10 to bring with me.

[ctsooner]

I have a DELA N1A ( a Japanese version of MELCO N1A) hook to Marantz N8005 via both ethernet and USB port. The ethernet connection easily surpassed USB, especially with "direct mode". I also tried ethernet to Oppo 105d and had the same result comparing with USB. So far the only connection I use is Ethernet.

 

Alex from Ayre will be there just like at the other stores he's been to. I believe this is the first Northeast showing of the QX5 and all are invited. Johnny Rutan has been mentioned as one of the best and honest dealers in the country in the last two Stereophile articles about two jazz musicians and their systems (must read articles I feel as it's a different slant than we usually see).

 

who else plans to attend? Would love to know ahead of time. i posted another thread about this. If you see a guy using a rollator (walk with wheels), thats me. Please come over to say hi. thanks.

cheers,

Kien Do

 

Yes, I spoke for a long time the other night with a very high end DAC maker the other night and he too said that the Ethernet connection is best, but ONLY if it's implemented properly. The AES/EBU connection can also be the best connection depending on the design of the DAC. I'm all over the board as to which way to go. I am still looking at the Melco N1A used as a NAS only and then using optical cable runs with the converters to use Ethernet connection to the Router for the QX5 streaming etc...

 

Can't wait to see the QX5 and listen next Saturday at Audio Connection in Verona, NJ...YES, I want to meet as many of you guys as possible, lol. I'm assuming it will be featured on the Vandersteen 7 mk2 with the Ayre MXR and KXR with all top end Audio Quest cabling.

[ctsooner]

What a great day at Audio Connections in NJ. I've become a fanboy of them (they aren't the only dealer I frequent) because Johnny is a great human being. He really does care. I continually see him keeping folks within they budgets and coming up with great systems.

 

The star of the day though was the QX5/Twenty. It was a fun day. The QX5 showed tons of promise and I'm glad that I purchased one. It only had about 30 hours on it and by 6pm last night, you could hear it breaking in little by little. The bones of it were there though and I know it will be killer once it's got a few hundred hours on it. Looks great, built great and the headphone amp was outstanding with my Noble Savant's and it had 0 hours on it, lol. The amp is built similarly to the Codex (to me one of digital's best buys), but with the best parts they had on hand as the budget allowed for that. I still can't believe that it has 10 digital connections you can use. What a digital hub and we used Roon to run it. I've never used Roon before, but Michael Lavorgna has been telling me use it before deciding what to use for a hard drive set up. I honestly think that I will just do the Qnap 471 with Roon on the SSD in the first bay and follow the set up that Michael shared and that's on the QNAP site. I will also do the optical conversation and run it to the system to get rid of the RF problems that an ethernet cable can have.

 

I can't really talk about HOW the QX5/Twenty sounded since it was nearly out of the box, but it's going to punch well above it's range like every other Ayre product. What an exciting company to watch as they continually keep upgrading what are good products and allowing we users to pay minimally for these upgrades so we don't feel left out in the cold. Alex from Ayre is a great guy and it was fun picking his brain on the QX5/Twenty as well as other Ayre products. Was a fun day for me personally as a few of my friends showed up from the boards.

[ctsooner]

No, it is Audio Connections unit new out of the box. Johnny called me on Wed to tell me he was getting delivery later that day. He was a kid in a candy store lol

 

Lots have heard it but like any piece you can't tell full what it is until it's broken in. Based on what we heard yesterday I'd never say it was on the cool side of anything. Breaking in often is about extension on both ends as well as a smaller soundstage that isn't as solid as it will get. I did speak with Alex at length about the sound and it's very full and open. ayre always throw a big soundstage and the detail will be awesome as it's got the double diamond stage as well as the line filtering. Very very low noise floor. Ink black is what I heard. Personally it's worth waiting on and listening for yourself. That's just me though. All dealers just got them so give it two weeks.

[ctsooner]

I have a feeling this will be a true 300-500 hour type of burn in. That's based on the components used and how much is involved here lol. This thing will most probably rock once it hits its stride. Just needs time.