Introduction--Looking to Upgrade DAC

[ACHiPo]

Hi,

I'm new to this site. I discovered it in my search for a DSD DAC to replace my Oppo 105. I have a HAL MS3 running JRiver and Aurender S-10 and want to be able to listen to my ~12 TB of hi-rez albums without worrying about conversion, drop outs, etc. I have about 300 DSD albums, so would prefer native DSD. Ideally I'd feed everything through the aurender, as I like the UI better than JRiver, and I haven't gotten JRemote to work yet.

 

I started looking at DACs below $2k used, but find myself looking at Meitner, PS Audio DirectStream, Bricasti M1, etc. Within my budget are Exogal Comet and Auralic Vega.

 

Thanks,

AC

[ACHiPo]

Bryston BDA-3, has HDMI inputs so you can connect it to the OPPO105 for DSD files, same price as Vega.

I hadn't thought about using HDMI. How does HDMI compare to USB at handling hi-rez?

[ACHiPo]

I recently purchased a second hand Auralic Vega and can heartily recommend it. It is used as a reference by quite a few professional reviewers for a good reason. It really is a special piece of equipment.

The Vega was the first thing I thought of when I thought about a new DAC. Of course then I get to looking and am torn between not wanting to spend $3500 for a new one and wanting something better. I am deep in the rabbit hole!

[ACHiPo]

Just keep an eye on second hand sales on various sites and be patient. I got mine for $2,000.00!

 

I'd hope to get an Exogal for about $1800 or a Vega for $2k.

[ACHiPo]

The Bryston has both so you can compare.

 

There is also the updated T+A DAC 8 that has separate converters for PCM and DSD inside, with true 1 bit converters doing up to DSD512.

The T+A DAC looks interesting. I've read about their preamps, which get pretty good reviews. Pretty odd name for an audio company--not comfortable searching for reviews at work! I'll check them out and add them to the list. I haven't really looked at Bryston--don't know why, but that brand hasn't really hit my radar.

 

Thanks!

[ACHiPo]

Ive tried quite a few DACS (Exogal, T+A DSD8, Naim, M2Tech, Chord) over the years and the one that sounded best to me on DSD was the Lampizator, it simply blew the rest of them away, Ive not yet heard a Auralic so cant comment on that

Ive heard nothing but raves about Lampizator products. Their entry level, however, is pretty far above what I want to spend (~$2k), and the raves I read are about their higher end, the Big 7 and Golden Gate DACs.

 

How did the Exogal, T+A, and Chord DACs compare? From my research the Exogal, QUTE, Hugo, and Aries Vega are more close than they are different, although reviewers can still talk about "significant" differences between them

[ACHiPo]

Got Vega a year ago for 2500. Found it via hifishark website.

What else did you audition/consider besides the Vega? I see used Vegas in the $2200 - $2500 listed price range. Are you happy with it?

[ACHiPo]

Be aware that there is an old (2012) and a new (2015) version of the T + A DAC 8. Only the new one (called "DAC 8 DSD") accepts DSD signals. There are probably still many old DAC 8 being available in stores.

That's good to know! Thanks.

 

Are there other firmware rev issues I should be aware of on Auralic, Exogal, Bryston, or Chord DACs?

[ACHiPo]

They all faired ok on DSD to be fair, the Exogel is not native but did an ok job, the Lampi blew them all away, and no I don't own one but may get a Level 4 in the future if funds permit

Wow even a level 4 Lampi blew away the rest? How did its performance on PCM compare?

[ACHiPo]

The Gustard X20 is getting rave reviews. People are claiming they are replacing Vegas and Yggys with it. Anybody here have one that can comment?

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/780385/gustard-x20-dac

[ACHiPo]

The Amber is at least in the realm of the reasonable. Some Lampi DACs seem to have some peculiar interfaces--switches, etc. although it's their sound that everyone raves about.

[ACHiPo]

I've been reading good things about the Opera Consonance Don Curzio recently.

 

Quite cheap in relation to your budget but it compares quite favourably apparently.

 

It has a Class A output stage which I find has far more relevance to sound quality than whatever DAC chip is the latest fashion!

Only found one blurb, but it was quite positive.

[ACHiPo]

I replaced my Oppo 105 with one of these, $1600 used via Audiogon (the DAC-2 DSD SE version). My requirements were that I needed switching between optical, coax, and AES/EBU sources. I've been pleased.

 

https://wyred4sound.com/products/dacs/dac-2-series

 

I'll add that one to the list. Thanks!

[ACHiPo]

Just received a demo DAC DAC. If I had any doubt that a DAC makes a difference, I don't antpy more. Not my be all end all DAC, but. Big step up from my Oppo.

[ACHiPo]

Wonderful news. Enjoy. I had the 105D as my digital source, spinning SACD, Blu-Ray Audio, and DVD-A, constantly. I got a lot of enjoyment out of it, and it is a very good machine. That said, playing rips via the W4S DAC-2 DSD SE showed a significant improvement here--with my ears--and my rig. Looking forward to hearing more about your adventure with this stuff. I had the good fortune to have a local friend with a setup that just sounded spectacular. Essentially all I did was emulate his rig. That made things a lot simpler this time around with upgrading.

 

I'm a member of the San Francisco Audiophile Society, and a DAC shotout event is being held February 20th. Some 10 to 15 DACs are being compared, many surprisingly affordable. Pretty sure some notes on the results of that shootout will be posted in the forums. If you are still deciding on a DAC by then, maybe keep your eyes peeled for that post, or ping me. Might be useful info.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile mobile app

The DAC shootout sounds like a great event! I don't think I can attend, but really look forward to hearing the results. Do you know which DACs will be compared?

[ACHiPo]

Do you know what kind of sound you like? There are so many DAC options out there each having their own sound and design. Within your price range there are still a large number of options - SS, Tubes, Chip manufacturer, etc. I would recommend you look closely at the power supply design. The better designed DACs take very good care of the power quality.

 

Getting a demo is the best possible approach - auditioning the DAC "in your setup". However, don't pull the trigger just yet. Listen to a few more demos and see what the different sounds are like in your setup.

 

Do take a look at Resonessence Labs. They have a great knowledge of the Sabre design and their DACs have been getting positive reviews. Prices are also in your budget.

 

Good luck!

I like an accurate sound. I'm not looking for a DAC to act as a tone control. At the same time it obviously needs to not add digital artifacts which detract from musicality.

[ACHiPo]

Please see attached for the DACs in the shootout -- hope it's legible [ATTACH]24162[/ATTACH]

Looks like it will be a good session. Definitely looking forward to seeing the results!

[ACHiPo]

I just pulled the trigger on a Gustard X-20U. It should arrive in 1-2 weeks.

[ACHiPo]

The X20U arrived last night. It sounds quite good, with a bit of tiz, but that's to be expected. Overall I'm delighted at the performance for the price, and it should get even better.

[ACHiPo]

 

I just ordered my X-20U yesterday. I can't wait to see what all the fuss is about.

Congrats! Look forward to your impression. What is it replacing?

[ACHiPo]

Since DACs are more computerized do the $2,000 DACs really sound better than say $200.00 ones or 400.00 ones?

 

Or is it mostly the box, connectors and features that drive the cost up?

 

Do they also reverse it? meaning can they all go from Digital to analog and also Analog to digital?

I'd hoped that all the hoopla around DACs was just that. Unfortunately they do make a difference based on my comparison of 3-4. Fortunately they make music more enjoyable, and for less than $900 I'm quite happy with my selection.

[ACHiPo]

Just got a Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2 DSDse. Still sorting it out ... promising so far.

Cograts! From another poster it sounds like the W4S takes several (>100) hours to reach its stride like the Gustard X20.

[ACHiPo]

I got better boost of performance from software (audiogate) and mcintosh amp than the dac. The external dac is overrated imho... heck, people can't even agree unanimously that any external dac sounds better than another, or that a media player with an internal dac doesn't sound better....if there is no consistency of a majority that will state one dac is better than another then it makes no sense to pay more money regardless of how deep someones pockets are unless it is for status.

 

 

I'm a member of the San Francisco Audiophile Society, and a DAC shotout event is being held February 20th. Some 10 to 15 DACs are being compared, many surprisingly affordable. Pretty sure some notes on the results of that shootout will be posted in the forums. If you are still deciding on a DAC by then, maybe keep your eyes peeled for that post, or ping me. Might be useful info.

 

Todd,

What if any conclusions did the San Francisco Audiophile Society make at the DAC shootout?

 

AC

[ACHiPo]

I'm not surprised a new DAC made little difference to SQ. It seems that folks are getting more significant improvements by either using a re-clocker (Mutec Mc3+) and/or a ethernet to USB/SPDIF device (Sonicorbiter) between server and DAC. Just demoing DAC's in isolation is a waste of time/money IMO.

That's not my experience comparing the Oppo 105 to the DAC DAC prototype to the Gustard X20. There were definite differences, with a clear good, better, best in my system. That being said, I've got no experience in reclocking other than what the DACs do.

[ACHiPo]

I meant you have to get your 'digital transport' right before you start trying new DAC's. Your digital transport in an Aurender S10 which is very good.

Ahhh got it. My other source is a HAL Music Server, with 2 5TB HDDs. I have not done much comparing between the two, but the HAL is supposed to be pretty good as well. Before I got the Gustard I needed JRiver to translate DSD files to PCM so the Oppo and DAC DAC could play them. I'm eager to try out HAL outputting DSD into the X20.

 

At some point I may pare down to a single computer server--probably get rid of the Aurender as it only has 2TB. Until then I'll run USB from the HAL and SPDIF from the Aurender to compare the two.