Sonicorbiter - Native DSD support

[vortecjr]

Would a USB diagnostics output be helpful to sort that out? I would be happy to send one.

 

Post the complete output of Apps/DAC Diagnostics for the device.

[vortecjr]

Here is the Apps/DAC Diagnostics output for the Simaudio 780D DAC.

 

Thanks for having a look.

Unfortunately, it will not work as-is. They would have to update their firmware first.

[vortecjr]

Thanks for the answer. This seems to mean that Simaudio has to do the first move, but how can we make this happen? If I were to contact Simaudio developpers, what should I ask them relative to the firmware update you say is a prerequisite to an eventual support of native DSD in the microrendu kernel ? Or is foolish on my part to try that ?

 

Thanks for youhelp.

 

It's anyones guess if they will cooperate. Tell them you would like the DAC to support the DSD_U32_BE sample format.

[vortecjr]

For now, DOP transcoding has to be used to stream DSD from the microrendu to my DAC (Simaudio). I thought this had to be done at the music server level, eg Minimserver or AssetUPnP which both provide for DOP encapsulation of DSD data. I just realized that the microrendu can handle that itself. My question is thus : is it better to leave the DOP transcoding to the microrendu, or does it benefit the microrendu to offload this job to the music server ?

 

Either way.

[vortecjr]

Native DSD support under Roon for Nuprime HD-AVP status is on: pending update

Is there already some software update available? Maybe a beta to test? Can I help out here? I do own the HD-AVP and could test, if required. Let me know.

Hang in there...the update is coming.

[vortecjr]

Using a dsd512 board from Lampizator, a windows pc playing HQplayer and mRendu, will I be able to play native dsd512?

lampizator uses Amanero

 

Amanaro is still working on the driver for native DSD support on Linux. For right now you have to use DSD/DoP at whatever rate it supports in this format.

[vortecjr]

Jesus:

 

Any word on native support for Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 DSDse? Have you heard anything from them recently?

 

No word and we never received a unit from them to test things.

[vortecjr]

It was reported to us that the Lampizator Amber uses an DIYINHK USB interface. If this is correct the Sonicorbiter SE and the microRendu should both support the Lampizator Amber via native DSD. Please test and report back.

[vortecjr]

I don't have an Amber to test and verify but the github repository (lintweaker/xmos-native-dsd) states DIYINHK is natively supported although DSD128 as maximum.... I almost got some hope there as an alternative to waiting for proper Amanero support...

 

I don't have any feedback on this to confirm the maximum sample rate.

[vortecjr]

How about T+A 8 DSD? I would like to audition that dac and try DSD512 upsampling with Roon - HQplyer - uRendu (naa) - T+A 8 DSD.

 

We have already looked into that DAC and it would need a new firmware to support native DSD with Linux.

[vortecjr]

Calling these native DSD updates a driver is not really proper. Native DSD support with the format we use is built into the Linux Kernel. All we are doing going going forward is adding support for specific devices. What happens is in a nut shell is the Kernel identifies your DAC as supporting the native DSD format we use and it enables it for streaming on your device. The comment above about the DAC having to mute is correct and it needs to be done very quickly or get some level of noise. Some devices use an FPGA for this task and it can delay the signal, some devices do not have anything special. Andrew from SGC calls DSD, "The Wild Wild West." Firmware updates on the devices could help and so can various sync delays within the server. Try playing with the sync delays in Roon and HQ Player.

[vortecjr]

Well, if the pops are a dac issue (as John alludes to, and I've heard many many times before) then I feel good, cuz Tim (distributor) and Jeff (designer) are very quick to resolve the early issues. However, I suspect is it might be more generic (or specific to HQPlayer, which I will try to test), as both the MSB and the Holo are acting exactly the same way.

 

Part of the complication is that the fix has come from various places such as the DAC, server, player, and the file itself. All these fixes may or may not play nice together.

[vortecjr]

Why doesn't the Latest Version available not show up in the software update page but yet if I process an update it just updated to 2.3 from 2.2?

 

I just posted about this in the main thread:)

[vortecjr]

Is it possible to play native DSD512 to T+A DAC 8 DSD?

 

If it's based on the Amanero board then native DSD will first have to wait for Amanero to update their firmware.

[vortecjr]

I had this issue last weekend twice. And they all happened when I changed the music path from one NAS to another and Roon was still updating the tracks. I played tracks that were on the list and almost damaged my speakers. They start ok and then something is lost and loud and constant pops come.

 

This sounds more like a server issue. Check that the servers are within the minimum specification posted by Roon on their website.

[vortecjr]

I am using Sonictransporter for Roon Core and a very high specified PC for HQPlayer.

 

once the track list is updated on Roon, no more issue.

 

The sonicTransporter is different and lower power compared to the sonicTransporter i5. Each one has a specific limit on the size of the library. For simplicity I just recommend the sonicTransporter i5 to my customers.

[vortecjr]

I am trying to getmy new Bryston BDA-3 DAC setup with my mR in native DSD. Wheneverthe BDA-3 changes DSD rate there is a loud pop. With DOP there is nopop when changing DSD rate. If I connect direct to the BDA-3 withoutthe mR there is no pop in direct DSD when changing DSD rates. I amseeing this problem with both HQPlayer and Room. Since the pop onlyhappens when using my mR is there some change I make with the mR tomute the pop?

 

Switch to Roon by itself. Then try adjusting the Resync Delay in Roon / Settings.

 

[vortecjr]

I set in a couple different Resync Delays. Now when Roon is playing back Native DSD and switches DSD rate my DAC immediately shows the change in rate and I hear a loud pop. The start of playback is delayed by whatever I set in Resync Delay. When I remove my mR from the playback path and Roon changes DSD rate I hear no pop when Native DSD rates change.

 

There is nothing more that can be done. I'll email Roon and see if they have that DAC for testing to check things out.

[vortecjr]

There is nothing more that can be done. I'll email Roon and see if they have that DAC for testing to check things out.

 

I just heard back from the Roon guys and they do not have your DAC in house for testing. Have you tried the DLNA output mode to see how that works for you?

[vortecjr]

I was able to get DLNA working and got loud pops when DSD rates changed with my mR in the signal path. When I removed my mR the pops went away.

 

Okay. I have been testing here with my DACs. I'm getting noise when I stop and pause. There is also noise when I change rates as well. It really depends on where the transition occurs and if there is silence at the start of the next track. Is this what you are finding?

 

I also have an email into Chris (he is a RMAF this weekend) because he reviewed the DAC with the microRendu in native DSD and he did not report the issue to me.

[vortecjr]

With my mR out of the signal path and the volume up I can sometimes hear a slight tick with rate changes. During my previous testing of Roon and HQPlayer with mR the loud pop with rate change was universal. Now with JRMC the loud pop is usual but not always with rate change so I imported that playlist into Roon and the loud popping with this selection of files is less than universal like I was hearing in JRMC. When I have more time I will rerun the tests to see if I can see a pattern for pop and no pops. I hear no pops when stopping and restarting, only rate changes.

 

I have been testing a different DAC and this one has no noise at all. This is very much DAC specific issue.

[vortecjr]

Whenever you get a response from Chris I would interested in knowing if also experienced noise problems with the BDA-3 and native DSD.

 

I am also curious if you any thoughts on why my popping goes away when I remove my microRendu from the signal path to the BDA-3.

 

Thanks

 

Will due. It seems to be DAC specific...I have one DAC that does it sometimes and another DAC that never does it. That one does is not XMOS based and the one that doesn't is XMOS based so the firmware would be very different, but in each case the microRendu is the same. It also seems to transcend the output mode. In the case of Roon and HQ Player they are both streaming what ever is passed through the microRendu so the player is the same as if you connected things direct.

[vortecjr]

That sounds reasonable to me. From the start I have just been having a problem getting my head around why I get the pops with native DSD thru my mR but not DOP and never when my mR is not in the signal path.

 

I can only speculate what happens with the signals when the DAC receives them. With DoP the DAC might be properly muting the DAC chip as it changes from PCM to DoP, etc. Its possible that the DAC is not properly muting the DAC with native DSD. What happens with other operating system is irrelevant because the DAC manufacturers in most cases have developed ASIO drivers to deal with these situations. With Linux most DAC manufacturers take a back seat to native DSD support. Only a few companies are actively involved in getting their gear properly supported.

[vortecjr]

I just heard back from Roon who heard back from Bryston. They are saying that there had been pop problems, but a firmware update fixed them.

[vortecjr]

I was able to get up with tech support at Bryston today. They confirmed the DSD rate change popping problem. The firmware change to correct this is in the final QA process. ETA a week or two.

 

Ever hear back from Chris on his experience?

 

That is great news. Nope.