Roon / HQPlayer Integration

[Miska]

Ah, good to know. I'd never see that, because I'm compulsive about adding metadata to any new music I acquire.

 

I have bunch of WAV files (including test signals and such) and DSF files converted from DSDIFF (because Roon doesn't support DSDIFF). I hadn't bothered to add metadata to those so that's how I found out.

 

I wonder what the minimum amount of metadata is that Roon requires to identify an album? Artist + album?

 

I've got the picture that there needs to be artist + album + song and then it's happy. In fact, my CD rips don't contain anything more than that (no covers or anything like that).

[Miska]

I am using a Windows 10 PC as NAA 3.4.2. I also found the NAA application just quit without a sign. I have to start NAA manually again or reboot the PC. It happened when I switched songs frequently.

 

You could start it from command prompt, then you would have window left open if it terminates and possibly some message hinting towards the cause. Also HQPlayer log could tell something.

[Miska]

It would appear the HQP setting that determines this -3 "on or off" functionality is the the DSF setting. If it is turned off, the -3 shows up and volume control is possible via speaker icon

 

When it is "off" it is fixed to -3 dBFS. ..

[Miska]

The integration works fine. Occasionally Roon/HQP loose connection in my system when switching from one song in one album directly to a specific song in another album. It gets played but HQP is mute. What I usually so is switching to a complete different album, playing that from the start, then it works again, and the I switch back to the song I wanted to hear. So it is kinda on/off issue.

 

Miska advised me not to "touch" the HQP GUI which I do, in fact, also tried with controlling Roon purely from iPad/Iphone instead of Mac Mini remote desktop control through a Macbook, it still happens but I can't reproduce it, it is frequent.

 

I think this should be managed so it works because it can be annoying at times.

 

I hope all the remaining random infrequent failures is fixed by HQPlayer 3.15 + Roon 1.3...

[Miska]

Is sending Roon to HQPlayer Embedded still a possibility for the future? Saw a mention from a while back on the roon forums. Idle curiosity here, I realize it's a very niche sort of thing BubbleUP working great with the new Android tablet but I dove in with Roon anyway, just enjoying testing all the various options.

 

Yes, should work fine with HQPlayer Embedded 4.x + Roon 1.3...

[Miska]

I gather rygel is not needed for this.

 

No, I made Rygel optional, it is only needed for UPnP support.

 

Anyone else running Roon 1.3 to HQPlayer Embedded 4.x? I'm idly curious if you also see a mis-identification of filter/modulator in the Roon UI. I set the modulator based on my config for HQPlayer Desktop.

 

Good catch, I had a bug and was telling wrong information about the filter back to Roon. I've now fixed it and there's a9 build available (with pretty big changes elsewhere too).

 

I also added preliminary systemd service file for running hqplayerd without Rygel, it expects key and configuration to reside in /etc/hqplayer so the daemon can be started automatically at boot as a background service.

[Miska]

I noticed the same thing with HQplayer Windows 3.15. When I have auto set for everything HQplayer tells Roon (and on the HQP main screen too) that the PCM filter and noise shaper is being used, even when DSD is chosen. Says NS4, for example, but DSD is being upsampled with, say, ASDM7.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]33127[/ATTACH]

 

That "Auto" output mode is messy from GUI perspective, but should work better with HQPlayer Embedded + Roon. I don't think that's worth attempting to fix on HQPlayer Desktop 3.x since it needs complete GUI redesign and removing those selections from the main window altogether. That's why I wasn't too fancy about adding the automatic mode switching feature because it leads to inconsistent GUI.

 

Same with Direct SDM when playing DSD source in SDM output mode vs PCM source...

[Miska]

I've been running hqplayerd with success on startup as a --user service but I will definitely look into that. I think something about my current order can prevent logging from starting cleanly. Maybe if I move it from /tmp to the home folder. Restarting the service sorts it at any rate.

 

I'm running hqplayerd as system service under "hqplayer" user (the new package creates that system user) and logging to /tmp/hqplayerd.log so it doesn't consume real diskspace, only tmpfs.

 

Only remaining hitch is playback occasionally stops with 1 second remaining and then fails to advance. I noticed something similar mentioned on the Roon forums though and possibly an impending fix for Build 197, so that could be unrelated.

 

I've really rarely hit this, only once managed to reproduce it. Seems to be some tricky timing problem and happens only under certain limited circumstances. The problem was that Roon cut out the data source after brief initial data burst. That case happened only when manually switching track to next one on Roon and only when controlled from a tablet. I reported this to Roon, but have not heard back and haven't been able to reproduce it since, so I'm not sure if it got fixed or not.

[Miska]

@Miska Is the brief echo I'm hearing when pausing in Roon (right after hqplayerd goes from pause -> idle) a byproduct of the iFi DAC's lack of muting? It's not one of those full-volume pops some players make on DoP stop, but a "pop" length burst of whatever was playing.

 

I have not got that kind of effect with my iDSD Micro BL, tested last night...

[Miska]

I am testing HQPlayer embedded version 4.0.0a9 with iFi micro iDSD and another DSD custom "noDAC"

1) I have the same effect as explained by arglebargle

2) Auto rate family not working. I have added auto_family="1", hqplayerd log confirm that the option is enabled, but if I play, for example, a 44100 kHz file, the log advise me that "Requested filter not possible with this rate combination 44100/192000, stop"

Adding 0 for automatic sample rate instead of 192000 produces an error.

 

The outputs in your post are unreadable because everything is on a single line... But for auto rate family to have effect, you need to set "samplerate" and "bitrate" to 0 in pcm and sdm elements respectively. This is same as setting the rate drop list to "Auto" in HQPlayer Desktop main window.

 

Here's my configuration with functional auto rate family, in this case to iFi iDAC2:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<xml>
       <output type="alsa"/>
       <engine auto_family="1" cd_drive="/dev/sr0" channels="2" cuda="0" direct_sdm="0" fft_size="512" pipeline_sdm="1" sdm_integrator="0" type="alsa" volume_hw="0" volume_limit="0" volume_min="-60">
               <defaults bitrate="12288000" dither="5" filter="9" modulator="6" oversampling="9" samplerate="384000" volume="-3"/>
               <alsa channel_offset="0" dac_bits="24" device="hw:CARD=Audio,DEV=0" deualwire="0" pack_sdm="0" period_time="100" volume_element="Master"/>
               <network address="default" dac_bits="0" device="hw:0,0" dualwire="0" pack_sdm="0" period_time="0"/>
               <transport dsd_6db="1" pdm_conv="5" pdm_filt="0"/>
       </engine>
       <pcm filter="9" dither="5" samplerate="0"/>
       <sdm oversampling="9" modulator="6" bitrate="0"/>
       <mode value="sdm"/>
       <fixed volume="-3"/>
       <title value="Listening"/>
       <log enabled="1" file="/tmp/hqplayerd.log"/>
       <mime>
               <type value="audio/ogg"/>
               <type value="audio/vnd.wave"/>
               <type value="audio/L24"/>
       </mime>
</xml>

[Miska]

Thanks, now PCM and DSD working fine! What about network?

 

How does your network backend configuration element look like?

[Miska]

Windows 10 Pro.16/44 flac upsample to poly sinc short mp DSD256.Dac is a Simaudio moon dac which has a Asio driver for native dsd playback.Roon on its own works fine.Cant get Hqplayer to work with Roon or by itself

 

Also make sure you don't have same audio device/driver enabled as zone in Roon and HQPlayer. This is also instructed in Roon documentation. Both want to have exclusive access to the device and would just fight with each other who wins the device first...

[Miska]

My test configuration is with polynomial and 0 dither, auto_family enabled:

 

Looks OK, except you should always have some dither if you do any DSP... No dither is only fine for bit-perfect playback, for anything else there should be some form of dither/noise shaping.

 

What is the "hw:1" on the NAA device? What does "aplay -l" show there?

[Miska]

Never had Audio device enabled in Roon and Hqplayer at the same time.When I couldn't get Hqplayer to work disabled Hqplayer in Roon and just used my Audio device in Roon and it worked.

 

OK, so HQPlayer alone doesn't work? What is the DAC/driver and backend you are trying to use?

[Miska]

I've had Roon 1.3 working fine via SOtM sMS-200 for a while now and all stable. Running iMAC Ethernet directly to SOtM using Roon Ready in Eunhasu. Have been playing with HQ Player (with and without Roon but no no luck so far). I think I have isolated the problem to HQplayer when set to NAA does not see the SOtM. Are you aware of any known issues, thanks.

 

Usually if NAA doesn't appear in HQPlayer, something is eating the multicast packets on the way... Primarily problem is usually multihomed setup where computer is using multiple network interfaces. Typically operating systems then end up routing multicasts to the interface with default route.

[Miska]

I thought I had seen a quote by Miska about a11, but perhaps I am mistaken.

 

Previous was a10, now a11 is up...

[Miska]

13 hours ago, arglebargle said:

 

Same here. Just tested because I haven't really used 3.16 yet as Embedded has been working so well. It was a problem for me in a bunch of versions of Embedded 4.* but cleared up with the most recent. This is the first time I've experienced it on the desktop version.  Before now I hadn't seen another person mention this issue, so if it's reproducible somehow maybe that will help. I'll generate some logs with 3.16 later to see if there is anything of interest. 

 

I moved the same fixes from Embedded to Desktop, but then had some other problems and needed to do further fixing. I have now made some small further changes in Embedded a19 build I have already migrated also to Desktop for inclusion in 3.16.1. Both are really supposed to behave the same...

[Miska]

1 hour ago, LewinskiH01 said:

Without a NAA

This would be the current system. Roon on the i5 with Win 10 Pro, feeding HQP on Xeon server with WS2012R2 in minimal server mode and AudiophileOptimizer, feeding DAC.

 

With a NAA

I would run Roon and HQP on the i5, and turn the Xeon server to a NAA running WS2012 in core mode with AO. The i5 connected to Xeon thru ethernet. Xeon feeding DAC thru USB.

 

I don't do DSD and in HQP I convolve to 8-channels and upsample to 96k and using poly-sinc-shrt and NS9 and the Xeon is running at 75% load.

 

Functionally, the current setup does everything I need. But I wonder if the alternative with a NAA might yield better sound. What do you think?

 

I would go for option without NAA. It seems technically better approach. Using the Xeon as NAA wastes the CPU power available there and it is (IMO) a bit too hefty for NAA.

[Miska]

On 7/27/2017 at 4:38 PM, Dr Tone said:

I experienced this for the first time last night as I wanted to leave music playing overnight to work my new DAC in.

 

@Miska is there anything that can be done about this?

 

If you are using 3.16.4 and getting this, you may need to ask Roon...