Optical Network Configurations

[Albrecht]

jabbr:

 

Could you please give a list of components needed to make an optical network, and what connects to what. Currently I am using a Cisco switch for a 2-pc HQ Player (HQPC and NAA) set up.

 

Thanks.

 

First post: first mistake: (sorry) Post meant to reply/respond to Jabbr.

 

Thanks for all of your posts on this subject, - I have learned a lot. I am thinking of using two TrendNet TEG-082WS switches that have two MM fiber connections and 8 Gigabit RJ45 Ethernet ports: instead of media converters at the audio rack. With the potential for 5 to 7 RJ45 Ethernet devices in the audio rack: that could account for a lot of media converters. Hence my question, are you realizing significant SQ benefits by running either battery power or linear power supplies on your FMCs?

[Albrecht]

There are many ways to do it.

As I upgrade areas, I move equipment to other places, so now I have an FMC between my cable modem, and internal network, as well as between wireless router, and internal network. Does it make an SQ difference? Frankly who knows.

 

The thing I would also do is to use vibration isolation (rollerballs) on every piece of equipment that has a clock, i.e. computer, NAA, FMC, switch, DAC.

 

Thank you again. I was trying to avoid running 5 copper RJ45 cables from the NAS/gigabit switch, - 30ft into the audio room. But, the only place where i need "better" SQ is the digital file player. I guess that I'll get more flexibility by running Media converters, - & 1 fiber cable, - with the ability to run different power supplies on the Media converters. It's not like the cable TV box is going derive much benefit from a fiber link.

 

Thanks again.

[Albrecht]

What I do is use a separate switch for copper and connect to the fiber switch either:

A) via an FMC

B) via an optical uplink port i.e. Use the single SFP slot to connect to the fiber switch.

 

For example, - would it be better to just run fiber along side Ethernet using two TPLINK FMCs? Instead of using, (for example), the Diablo FMC that has two gigabit ethernet ports & two SFP slots? In that FMC device, - the gigabit & fiber ports can't possibly shared.

 

[Albrecht]

Not sure the application or config you have, but what I do is keep the main switches in my basement near my NAS with home runs throughout the house. In my bedroom where it would be just too much trouble to run a fiberoptic cable, I hook the existing cat 5e to an FMC and then to an SFP switch from where it is distributed to audio devices. I am sure there are specific situations where that device fits the bill but its price starts to approach the 8 port SFP switch ... you can also just add an RJ45-SFP module if you need more copper ports.

 

Thanks for the reply. I really only need one fiber run to my network player. It sure would be nice to use just one FMC that had 1 fiber & 3 Ethernet/RJ45 ports at the audio rack. My NAS & Ethernet/RJ45 switch are 30 feet away in another room. I am getting the feeling that it might be a better idea to just have 1 30 ft run of fiber with 2 TPLink FMCs: alongside 3 X 30 ft CAT6 cables, - to the other, (non-important), devices. The NIC in the AppleTV isn't even gigabit...

I don't really care about the difference between $220 or $320 when talking about SQ. As far as the Diablo Cable 3 port FMC + 1 Fiber, - if that thing is lower quality compared to just running 3 ethernet cables and 1 fiber with 2 TPLink FMCs,- I'd just do that.

[Albrecht]

Hi,

I've got a couple of TPLink 200CM MM gigabit FMCs and was wondering if it would be overkill to get 10GB OM3 SC to SC cable? Would the "faster" cable make any difference, or even work?

 

TIA

 

Cheers,

[Albrecht]

iPower on order

 

Hi,

Sorry if I missed your report on how this was working out for you: were they OK? I have a couple of TP-Link MC200cms: very simple, and I'd rather not deal with battery supplies, or deal with Linears north of $350 for these....

 

Cheers,

[Albrecht]

OK but not earth shattering. Should be fine. That said, I prefer the Chinese "el cheapo" from ebay, several of which I use (including the "high end el cheapo" ~$60-120). Batteries are also better for ground issues (they float, and so do a complete galvanic isolation across the Ethernet link)

 

Here is a link: Finished 65VA Ultra Low Noise Linear Power Supply 5V 9V 12V 15V 18V Etc | eBay

... there are others but typically there is a picture of a nice R-core transformer and a description of the power supply chip, so you have some idea what you are getting. These are nice units for what they are.

 

Thanks so much for taking a moment to write, and especially, to provide a link. Really appreciate it.

 

Cheers,

[Albrecht]

If you do not want to spend allot try these. Alex mentioned them awhile ago and they work fine. Much better than the supplied switcher IMO, I think you will be surprised.

 

GPU41090500WD00: JAMECO RELIAPRO: Power Supplies & Wall Adapters

 

Thanks for posting about this. At $12, - how can one go wrong. Might be a good place for me to try it at the FMC at the switch.

 

Cheers,

[Albrecht]

Yes, the only thing to be concerned about is the noise being sent backwards into the AC main -- don't know about these -- can compare with 5v battery eg Anker which won't be connected with main AC

 

Hey,

Just wanted to write a big Thank you to you Jabbr. I've learned a great deal from your posts, not only in this thread but elsewhere. Really appreciate you relating your experiences in a straight-up matter-of-fact manner without attaching any "this is right, that is wrong" values to your posts.

You have been so helpful, and I am betting that I'm not nearly the only one who thinks so.

 

I have a dedicated 20 amp circuit that runs my audio system, - so I may subject to less pollution from switching power supplies. Right now, I only have a Kimber HDMI video switcher that uses a SMPS. But will soon (hopefully) have the microRendu and maybe a DSIO converter that may need a LPS as well. My thought is to try a decent LPS for the power strip for the FMC for the microRendu, and the $11 Jameco at the main switch running to the router....I also may want to buy one for the QNAP at some point.

 

Anyway, - thanks again for posting all your thoughts....

[Albrecht]

Check the voltage and current needed for your switch, NAS etc. The Jameco's might not be enough current for the switch, definitely not enough for a NAS. They are fine for the convertors.

 

Thank you very much, - I will check the current for sure....

 

Cheers,

[Albrecht]

If you do not want to spend allot try these. Alex mentioned them awhile ago and they work fine. Much better than the supplied switcher IMO, I think you will be surprised.

 

GPU41090500WD00: JAMECO RELIAPRO: Power Supplies & Wall Adapters

 

Hi,

 

Thanks again Bob. I just checked on the Jamecos and it says that the rating is .5A, and isn't the spec on the PSU for the MC200mc .6?

 

In the post above, you mentioned that they're fine for the FMCs... So, - $11 isn't that much to waste in case it doesn't work.

[Albrecht]

They have enough current for the convertors. I have been using them for a while.

 

Thank you Bob!

 

PS> With your FMCs, what short Ethernet cables are you using? I was thinking of picking up a couple of short Meicords, - but wondering if you have any experience with not noticing much difference with say, a standard CAT6.

 

Cheers,

[Albrecht]

Blue Jean Cables are popular choices.

 

Data Cables at Blue Jeans Cable

 

You can get them in custom lengths & colors. Great company as well.

 

Thanks Eric,

[Albrecht]

Rosewill. I would not personally spend allot on Ethernet cables.

 

Amazon.com: Rosewill 1-Feet Cat 7 White Color Shielded Twisted Pair Networking Cable (RCNC-11057): Computers & Accessories

 

That's the cable I'm using currently from my NAS to the switch. (SMILE)

[Albrecht]

Tried all possible combinations on the switches. It does not connect. The NAS also do not work using the same set up.

 

Hi,

 

I'm sorry if I don't understand you, - or missed something.

 

But TP-Link gigabit stuff will not work with 10/100 devices.

 

I would buy another Trendnet on Amazon, and return it if it doesn't work.

 

TP-LINK also has these.....

 

http://www.tp-link.us/products/details/MC100CM.html

[Albrecht]

Please if/when anyone gets a microRendu that has already done the Optical switchover, can you comment on whether this is still necessary. I need to get a switch (out of RJ45 ports) and am wondering to run optic or copper ethernet.

 

Thanks

Chris

 

I'm running fiber with 2 TP-Link MC200 FMCs & LPSs. I get the microRendu tomorrow. I have another TP-Link 8 port gigabit RJ45 Ethernet switch in cabinet with the NAS. For me, this is a winning combination, wouldn't even consider spending hundreds more on 30ft of "high-quality" CAT7 with CAT6 connectors.

[Albrecht]

Hi,

i mentioned the connectors because, (as I understand it), no RJ45 connectors meet CAT7 spec.

 

So, one can't have a CAT7 ethernet cable with RJ45 connectors. Even though the cable in between the connectors is CAT7, - the connectors bring it down.

 

On the other hand: CAT8 is reputed to go back to another form of RJ45 connector: go figure.....

[Albrecht]

I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a good optical setup for my

 

PS audio Directstream with Bridge II card installed.

 

I read another thread here and took that suggestion and ended up buying the TP link

link 2210 which didn't recognize the Bridge (which I'm guessing now is not t1000)

 

im going to the DS/Bridge from a standard Belkin AC router (also has wireless built in) which is being fed from my Mac Pro 2013 and Jriver. The run from the router is about 25 feet. I found going from cat 5 to 6a made a nice improvement, but I'm looking for the next level.

 

I've read some of this thread but wondered if anyone uses a similar setup.

 

Im also a bit confused if I should be using single or dual optical cable and if plastic fiber is fine or is glass fiber a better choice .

I'm not opposed to buying a new router if needed.

 

 

incidentally im using the same speakers as our host, Chris. However my TAD CR1's

are augmented with a stat tweeter and velodyne subs. This provides a considerable augmented performance.

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

Hi, before investing in FIBER, - make sure of three things....

 

1. You have a gigabit router

2. You have all gigabit switches

3. Your PS Audio bridge card is gigabit.

 

TP-Link MC200 series FMCs will not work with non-gigabit devices.

[Albrecht]

forgive me for not reading back (probably the answer is there but doesn't come out from a search )...

 

I'm considering replacing a (gigabit, as my whole network) NetGear GS105Ev2 ethernet switch with the PaulPang one

I think the PPA is 10/100, not gigabit (can't find any spec)

 

question is: will it work with the gigabit media-converter I'm already using? (TPlink MC210CS) :-/

 

thanks

 

Hi,

No, Just the 100 series. The 200 series will NOT do 100mps. I tested this with my 200 series and it definitely failed to function with an Apple TV: which stupidly, - is not gigabit.

Cheers,

[Albrecht]

I've been using the collective wisdom of this thread and really appreciate all the helpful people taking the time to post. Since November I've been enjoying a simple fiber optic run from my "computer stuff" in one room to the Ethernet input on an Aurender N100H. Well worth the minimal time and expense to implement.

 

However, I'm thinking there is still some noise getting into the Aurender via the Ethernet input. I did a simple experiment -- I played tracks from the N100H internal drive only, and compared the sound with the Ethernet jumper installed to the sound of the same tracks with the Ethernet jumper disconnected. It's subtle, but on tracks that are marginally a bit hard or tend to some stridency playback with the Ethernet jumper disconnected is more enjoyable and relaxed sounding. The edge is taken off a bit. This seems to agree with my observations that noise, whether from SMPS or from digital processes going on inside a computer, router or NAS seem to exacerbate any tendency toward hardness that some digital recordings have.

 

I'm hypothesizing that though the fiber run from computer room to stereo room is doing a great job of blocking conducted noise along with preventing noise pickup via induction along the fiber run, noise that's already been mixed with the signal before the copper/fiber converter is simply converted along with the signal and passed along.

 

So, I'm considering the next step -- going to a fiber switch in the computer room, along with simple linear power supplies for anything in the computer room that has an external supply -- and wanted to get the input of the group to answer a couple of questions before I start spending money again.

 

Present configuration in the "computer room" is two NAS, a Mac Mini, and a copper Ethernet cable linking to the downstairs (copper) switch which carries Internet from a cable modem, all plugged into an Apple AirPort Extreme acting as a hub and WiFi access point for the Roon and the Aurender Conductor iPad apps. I have a short copper jumper from this Airport Extreme to a TP-Link MC210CS copper/fiber converter, 10 meters of fiber SC/SC 9/125 single-mode duplex to the stereo room where another TP-Link MC210CS converts fiber back to copper, and a short copper jumper to the Aurender input.

 

I'm planning on buying one of these guys as a switch:

 

9 Ports Gigabit Ethernet Optical Fiber Switch with 8 SFP Ports and 1 1000M RJ45 | eBay

 

It's a simple fiber switch with 8 SFP ports and 1 copper RJ-45, all gigabit capable. It has an external 5VDC power supply I can swap from SMPS to linear.

 

Here's where I start getting hazy -- I understand I need to purchase SFPs for the fiber inputs to the switch (they don't appear to be populated with any SFPs as sold). If I get at least one SFP compatible with my existing SC-SC 9/125 fiber run to the stereo room, I'll be able to free up the TC-Link converter on that end of the fiber and plug the fiber right into the SFP and switch.

 

Now, I can use the freed up TC-Link converter, a short SC-SC 9/125 single-mode duplex fiber jumper and a short copper jumper to connect either of the NAS, the Mac Mini, or the AirPort Extreme into the switch. Any suggestions which one might benefit most?

 

For the remaining inputs to the switch I can go one of two ways, I think:

 

Either purchase more SFPs that accept SC-SC 9/125 single-mode duplex jumpers and TC-Link MC210SC converters, or -- if there is such a thing -- purchase SFPs that accept standard RJ-45-plug copper ethernet jumpers and dispense with the TC-Link converters and fiber jumpers.

 

The latter is simpler and less expensive (and doesn't need a bunch of wall-warts to power the converters); the former maybe provides more isolation between components?

 

I plan to use the one existing copper RJ-45 input to the optical switch for the copper Ethernet run coming from downstairs, which provides Internet access.

 

Critiques, cat-calls, brick-bats? I welcome all criticism and enlightenment the group cares to provide.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Steve Z

 

Not to contradict Jabbr in any way, - as he is the awesome expert who I'm sure that I'm not the only one who is grateful for....

 

But I would keep it as simple as you can, and would suggest that unless you have some other fiber endpoints, or have your modem/router running ethernet that you make sure that you try simpler, - easier solutions before buying a fiber switch and lots of expensive SFP modules: especially a concern about compatibility of SFP modules.

 

Do you have an Ethernet Switch? What ethernet cables are you using? Have you tried a $200 EMO systems EN-30 LAN isolator?

 

You can always unload your LAN isolator. Many folks just go SC-SC mm FMCs like the TP-Link MC200s, over and done. I also would buy (where applicable) $11 Jameco LPSs for you FMCs, switches etc. I recommend those FIRST. Before sinking all that money into a switch where you're going to have a mixed network anyway, - I would take a stop and look for super cheap & easy solutions first...

[Albrecht]

Not an unreasonable position but the SFP switch linked above is not expensive ~$100-110 and Cisco SFP modules are cheap on eBay so once you add up not too much expense and eliminates a cluster of FMCs each with its own power supply and Ethernet patch cable.

 

For me, having an SFP switch connecting to direct fiber/SFP NIC cards is "cleaner". Also allows you to swap out multimode for singlemode to see if you can tell the difference.

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for your comments. All excellent points, - especially about checking out multi vs single-mode. I was thinking of my situation where I share a big network with my downstairs neighbor and my little 8 port gigabit switch upstairs is just all filled up. Plus, I have a couple of 100mps RJ45 ethernet devices that I'd have to mix & match SFPs with, - & then worry about compatibility with the gigabit ones.

 

Thanks again for your response, and all of your great & helpful posts.

[Albrecht]

Bummer Ted, I've seen other users with fiber and the uRendu with success no? So strange! Thanks btw on the iPower, great to know it's an affordable option.

 

I'd be pretty excited too r_w! Fun times ahead I hope

 

Hi,

 

Ted, Forehaven: yes, - I have my two TP-Link MC200mc FMCs working with the microRendu. But only AFTER i set up the microRendu on a normal CAT6 copper line, - then switched the TP-Links to "FORCE" instead of "Auto" and then powered off and back on the FMCs, and then did a power down of the microRendu from the SonicOrbiter OS.

 

Cheers,

[Albrecht]

WORKS! Thanks. No idea what steps were the ones that did it, but followed your instructions (forced is only chosen at FMC since other end is Diablo fiber switch). I swear the noise floor is lower with fiber!

 

 

yay!!

 

After all that you've helped me in the past, - I feel grateful that I could, (in a tiny way), return the favor!!

 

Really glad that you got it working!! Yeah, - i noticed a significant improvement between fiber and copper ethernet.

 

Cheers Ted,

[Albrecht]

I have everything installed and got stuck with something I hadn't thought about, setting up mini downstairs w. no monitor! All I have is an older MBP. Anyway to use this? Ugh! So close! ;p (I use Screenshare after setup) The MC220L has the Power and one Link green lights on, and I have a green and red/orange on the uRendu.

 

And I tried your method Albrecht, but it's not showing up on network. Maybe b/c the mini's not running?

 

Edit: Realized I have Mini Displayport on my Mini, but no mDP to HDMI cable. So I'll have to order one and put all audio on hold. Ugh.

 

 

Hi,

 

Shouldn't have anything to do with the Mini. Did you get the microrendu up and happy with no fiber whatsoever? Standard RJ45 directly from router to switch with the microRendu?

 

1. Connect up microRendu with 1 RJ45 cable directly to router or switch.

2. Go into sonicorbiter.com, - go to Power Down

3. Power down microRendu and disconnect power cord AND RJ45 from microRendu

4. Unplug power from TPLink MC220L receiver.

5. Power down fiber switch, or TPLink sender FMC.

6. Switch MC220L to FORCE

7. Power back up fiber switch.

8. Power back up MC220L

9. Connect up short CAT6 RJ45 from MC220L

10. Connect power cable from supply to microRendu.

 

With both the MC220L & the switch, - it's important that both get powered down before switching to Force.

 

Apologies in advance if you've already tried the above and it still failed....

 

Cheers,

[Albrecht]

been wondering why mines are set to "Force" (no microRendu, just two MC210CS) then, checking the instructions I found this:

 

"When using two converters at the same time, the two converters must be set to FORCE mode. When connected to other products, such as TL- SL2210WEB or TL-SL2428WEB, the converter must be set to Auto- Negotiation mode. We suggest leaving the switches on AUTO."

 

 

Hi,

 

Thank you. That will be very helpful to folks who are using a switch + FMC, instead of like me, - two FMCs.

 

Another helpful issue for some folks is that the TP-Link 200 series definitely will not work with anything less than gigabit NICs. Some folks were reporting issues with devices that didn't have gigabit NICs.

 

Cheers,