UpTone Audio USB Regen Listening Impressions

[Superdad]

This is my first post on this forum. I am a newbie regarding computer audio. I've bought a dedicated music server that is connected to a Bricasti M1. ….I also have the regen on order (no 3246) and hope I receive this before Christmas. I'll let you know what the curious/regen will do in my set.

 

Hi Roland:

I know of many Bricasti M1 owners enjoying the REGEN, and the Curious cable is terrific as well.

 

As a welcome to CA, and because Netherlands is so far and I would like to fulfill you wish to receive your REGEN by Christmas, I am giving you a free upgrade to Express Mail (EMS) shipping versus the standard Priority Mail International. Hopefully your customs office will not slow it down.

 

Best,

 

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

Any news on the power thingie upgrade coming in ... was it February...?

 

We're working on it. Hoping to reveal a whole lot more in January.

 

Meantime the REGEN elves are working fast to get the toys out to everyone:

 

[Superdad]

JS-2s are pretty well damped, so they will probably just go "thunk" and not bounce. A REGEN on the other hand might actually bounce off the surface, but due to the geometry is not likely to bounce in the direction you wish. This would make "REGEN ping pong" a very frustrating game.

 

John S.

 

I on the other hand are very likely to bounce. My mother discovered that when she dropped me on my head as an infant--thereby forging the audiophile entrepreneur gene into my DNA. Maybe I'll recover some day.

 

What's also funny is that I am likely to either move the ping pong table into the new shop space--or buy another. Those giant surfaces are our favorite work tables!

[Superdad]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]22667[/ATTACH]

Regen link and between regen 1 and 2 then micro usb into Hugo

 

That's a VERY Curious set-up.

 

And you found a good use for the box we kit the REGEN in!

 

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

The chunky thing is an olimex usb-iso for galvanic isolation as recommended by rob watts,

newer chord dacs have the galvanic isolation as standard now

 

Guess you can't run native hi-res material then as the Olimex USB-ISO is limited to 12mbps Full Speed and does not pass High Speed USB data.

[Superdad]

I also own the Bricasti M1 DAC and use the Regen with it. I contacted Brian Zolner at Bricasti before using a 9 volt LPS to inquire about the current draw. His response was that the complete M1 DAC draws less than 1000mA, and estimates that the USB input draws 100mA at most, ...

 

That being the case, then yes, 12V is completely safe for the REGEN with the Bricasti. 100mA draw on the 7 volt drop (12V>5V = 7V) will result in just 0.7 watts of heat for the REGEN's 5V reg to dissipate. That's nothing. We are just trying to keep people from generating much more than about 2.2W, as the chip only heat sinks with the PCB's 9 vias under its center.

 

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

Duplicate post. Oops.

[Superdad]

Alex

 

I have tried a 12V battery to power the Regen into a iDSD Micro. The Regen gets hot - I estimate about 45 - 50 degrees centigrade by my touch. Is this a no-no?

 

Thanks

Frank

 

Uh, a 4,000mW USB bus-powered headphone amp? Yeah, that is exactly the sort of load that we don't want with a 7V drop (from 12V to 5V) on the REGEN's 5V regulator. There is a battery in the iDSD Micro, but who knows what its charging circuit draws. Probably pushes right at the 500mA USB VBUS spec limit.

 

Please read the REGEN FAQ on this subject at USB REGEN: Questions and Answers – UpTone Audio

 

This is not aimed at you Frank, but to be honest, I kind of wish this whole subject would go away as it has been covered so many times. Most manufacturers specify a single input voltage for their products and that is it. I suppose we opened ourselves up to this by putting the 6~8V legend on the REGEN's DC jack.

 

Best,

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

So Alex, I too have a Micro. So what would be your recommended/optimal 'USB and POWER' setup for this device given the USB power? And given this setup, would it be better in the long run to look to buy a DSD dac that's not bus powered?

 

Chris: There's nothing wrong with having a bus-powered DAC that you like. And the REGEN is more than capable of powering it (USB spec requires that devices not draw more than 0.5A from the VBUS, but the REGEN's ultra-low-noise regulators are good up to 1 amp).

My point was that it is not appropriate to power the REGEN with a 12V supply when using a bus-powered DAC. Seven of those twelve volts gets thrown away--dissipated as heat--and since amps times volts equals watts, a device drawing the USB-spec max 0.5A is going to generate an excessive 3.5 watts of heat on the REGEN's reg chip and PCB (0.5 x the 7V drop from 12 to 5 = 3.5W).

 

So for a bus-powered DAC--or any DAC where someone is not sure how much is drawn (even a lot of DACs with their own full AC>DC PS are entirely bus-powering thier USB input boards), please choose a 9V or less PS for the REGEN. Or just use the decent 7.5 SMPS that came with it.

 

Best,

-Alex C.

[Superdad]

Aw, shucks Mike. No one has ever called me a bottomless pit…

 

Thanks to you too and everyone here for helping others out all year (and for your general support and enthusiasm). I already drown in e-mail but it is probably the last task I will be able to train someone else to handle. Besides, chatin' with my fellow audiophile peeps is what I live for!

[Superdad]

Hi,

Doing an experiment with trying a Mojo as my main DAC while waiting for my Yggdrasil. I already had a Regen with my QB-9 DSD.

Is did not see a "Mojo Link" on Curious' website. Any suggestion?

Thanks guys.

 

Both the Chord Mojo and Hugo both have a microB USB input jack, and Curious Cables sells a REGEN Link with USB A to microB plugs (listed as REGEN>Hugo Link though of course some other DACs have microB input jacks as well.

[Superdad]

DrN, I have the similar findings with the Gungnir Multibit. I find that putting in the Regen thins out the sound a bit on the midrange, leading to more separation of instruments, though the LH Labs Lightspeed cable also contributes to that, and it might be going a little too far.

 

It does improve my iDSD micro by a lot, though, so your combination will vary your results.

 

Also, with the new Schiits, i find that converting USB to SPDIF to be so large a difference, that you won't even have to double blind to prove it. And if you add the Regen in that setup, I find that it thins it out so much more, its unlistenable.

 

Now curious about Curious cable!

 

Maybe do give the Curious cables a try. I have them and like them very much. I've had a couple of LH Labs Lightspeed USB cables here and found them to be very thin and harsh.

We think the REGEN is tonally neutral--it is just very revealing of everything else connected. Sure I am biased, but this is also a reflection of the majority who have posted in this 2200-post thread.

 

Best,

 

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

Wow, thanks for that nice recap of your adventure Quadman!

 

Really warmed me to read that this evening--after what has been a tough week filled with very long days (things rarely go smoothly for long when one runs their own hyper-active business with a lot of moving parts and people to coordinate).

It is finally raining here and I am glad it is Friday (though this weekend I'll be rotating JS-2 LPS units through the burn-in rack while working on my taxes and kid's college FAFSA forms).

 

John and I (mostly John) are making good progress on the new products, so hopefully there will be more toys for all to play with in a couple of months.

 

And the county just approved the plans and issued the permits for me to at last begin construction of the new UpTone Production Facility (UPF). So while I'm happy it is raining--we really need it here in California--I am looking forward to spring and bulldozers!

 

Have a fine weekend all,

 

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

When I used a cheater plug and reversed polarity, the bass returned, the soundstage increased, and the rhythmic gist of the music became compelling again. Not a subtle difference in the least. So please check the polarity of your Regen—it matters as much as your DAC or amp.

 

Interesting…

[Superdad]

Does this not line up with your experiences, Alex?

 

 

We'll I've played around with AC plug polarity in my system for 35 years, so I am used to its effect with amps, preamps, etc. But things are a bit different with SMPS bricks, and the cord from it has a grounded 3-prong plug. Was your experiment with the REGEN's supplied Mean Well brick or with some other PS? Or was it your DAC's cord that you reversed polarity on?

 

By the way, the two sides of USA house mains (120/0/120) do sound a little different (even when excluding all other loads in the house), and I have a procedure to choose the preferred side (and then I put certain nastier loads on the opposite side). But you have to be comfortable moving stuff around in your house load/breaker center.

[Superdad]

Are my ears tripping, Alex?

 

No, but you are certain to appreciate a better PS for your REGEN.

BTW, we just revealed the tech behind the crazy new LPS we have been working on for a year: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f27-uptone-audio-sponsored/mystery-revealed-uptone-audio-ultracap%99-linear-power-supply-1-a-28609/

[Superdad]

Hello,

I describe my system:

Macbook Air, Dac, Ayre QB DSD, Cardas Clear USB, Uptone Regen Amber, Curious Cable Link, Power Supply Sbooster BOTW P&P ECO 5V - 6V, Sbooster Vbus2 Isolator, Audirvana 2.3.2 (the best version that sounds in my system right now)

On the other USB port I have connected the Portable Hard Disk with AQ Jitterbug. ...

 

 

Hi:

 

You have a nice DAC and I'm sure the rest of your system is nice. But on the computer side, I can tell you--from personal comparisons I made, in my own system, with carefully controlled tests (booting 4 machines from the same SD card)--that your Macbook Air is not nearly as good sounding (bass-wise especially) as even a completely stock Mac mini (as in, not even power supply change). I compared my daughter's Macbook Air, my wife's Macbook Pro (both running from battery and AC) and my 2012 Mac mini. The mini was way ahead.

 

But even if you can not replace your computer, you very much should consider finding another way to have access to you portable hard drive. Having a USB drive directly attached to your computer when feeding a USB DAC is a very big compromise. Can you attach that drive to another computer in your home and set it to be shared? That will be much better.

 

Remember, improving SQ of computer audio is all about reducing the processes and activity (both hardware and software) of the DAC-connected computer. For example, my music Mac mini has only the following connections: DC cable to JS-2 LPS, USB cable to REGEN/DAC, BlueJeans Belden Cat6a Ethernet cable direct to my other Mac on my desk (where I have several drives shared).

And I boot from an SD card with a very slimmed-down OS X (just 70 processes and about 300 threads at idle), and then eject/dismount all partitions of my internal SATA drive (I would physically remove the drive, but I use it sometimes for back-ups and experiments).

 

Have fun!

 

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

two setup:

 

1. Macbook Pro -> Purist Audio USB Anniversary 1.0m -> UpTone Regen -> Connector -> Berkeley Alpha USB

2. Macbook Pro -> Curious USB 1.5m -> UpTone Regen -> Purist Audio USB Anniversary 1.0m -> Berkeley Alpha USB

 

Hi Amir:

 

Thanks for posting.

 

It really would be much better if you could get the REGEN extremely close to the input of your Berkeley Alpha, either with the solid USB A>B adaptor that was include with it, or with the 20cm version of the Curious Cable (they even call it the "REGEN Link"). Doing so will better preserve the improved signal integrity and impedance match from the REGEN to the DAC's/converter's USB input--and that will be audible.

 

I must say that yours is the very first REGEN to shipped directly into Iran. Glad it made it there.

I know that many in Iran are more progressive and peaceful towards the USA than what we hear in the press or from the governments (on both sides). We can only hope that the recent results of our presidential election are not the undoing of whatever progress has been made.

 

But music is universal, and it can be an ambassador to promote harmony. At least that is what I choose to believe and hold dear.

 

Enjoy your REGEN.

 

Regards,

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

Is mystery ready to sale?

 

Yes, it is our UltraCap LPS-1! It has been shipping since October and receiving rave reviews with everyone. Take a look here in the forum.

[Superdad]

The Regen gets very warm--is that normal?

 

No, that is NOT normal. Your REGEN may have died. I am catching up on the past couple of days e-mails tonight and I'll send you instructions for easy return/replacement.

 

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

I already have an iFi iPurifier 2 and I'm happy with it. However, I've recently heard nice things about the Regen, and found an article where the reviewer reported great results when using the regen and the ipurifier together. So, I'm contemplating the possibility of getting a Regen myself.

 

What do you think about that? Will I experience benefits from this combo or using em both together would be redundant?

 

Hi Kalinka:

 

Welcome to CA--thanks for posting!

 

I received your private message before seeing your post, so I already replied in some detail to it. Others can certainly chime in as well.

 

Best,

 

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

12 hours ago, thuandb said:

Belated Happy New Year to all!

 

Apologies if question already asked earlier, but can someone please tell me the max current amperage of the USB Regen's 5v output?  

 

Happy New Year to you too!

 

The ultra-low-noise voltage regulator in the USB REGEN that is dedicated to producing clean 5VBUS output is capable of delivering up to 1A. Even though USB2.0 specifications only permit a device to draw 500mA (0.5A), there are some DAC/headphone amps—and even a couple of bus-powered USB>S/PDIF converters—which violate that rule and draw upwards of 800mA. 

So the REGEN has those covered. 

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, John769 said:

Would anyone happen to know what voltage to set an amber regen -> ADI-2 DAC?

6~7 volts is ideal for our USB REGEN, though you can safely go as high as 9V (but no sonic advantage to that, just extra heat dissipated).

[Superdad]

14 minutes ago, hatchum said:

First post on the forum.

 

Well a big welcome to the Audiophile Style forums! 

 

14 minutes ago, hatchum said:

Just a quick question for dacs that don't draw any power from USB (sorry if this has been clarified before):

 

Is it possible to power the Regen DC input with a single 3.7v li-ion battery? Discharge curves for this chemistry typically range 4 - 3.3/3.4 volts... How low can it go?

 

Assuming your DAC does not draw ANY 5VBUS power, you could power a USB REGEN from as little as 3.9 volts. You need to leave about 0.6V of "drop" for the regulator to stay in good regulation for the 3.3V. You can try the mentioned 3.7V but it might be close.

Current draw by a USB REGEN will be about 140mA.

 

Sonically there will be no performance difference at various voltages within is range.

 

Above applies to the original (discontinued) USB REGEN, not to the present ISO REGEN.

 

As for batteries and how long they will keep up, I can not advise you.  Battery performance will vary depending upon state of charge.  Also beware, all those portable USB battery packs for charging have noisy switching regulators, so don't assume they offer advantage over other power supplies. 

 

All the best,

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

22 minutes ago, Paperinoil said:

Any recommendations on a very short USB C to A cable for connecting the Regen to a bus powered USB interface? 
 

About to try some experiments with various mid priced A to B cables from my MacBook, but aside from some very cheap A to C ones I’ve seen and very expensive custom ones, I’m not seeing a whole lot of options in this area. 

 

Hi:

Welcome to the Audiophile Style forums!

 

Can you tell us what USB device you are trying to connect to?  

 

We don't see very many USB DACs or DDCs with 'C' inputs.  And I don't know of too many USB A to C cables.

 

Thanks,

--Alex C.