UpTone Audio USB Regen Listening Impressions

[sandyk]

Isn't that what I said? It was what I meant.

 

Just clarifying, as a few others have reported subjectively higher output levels which of course aren't directly measurable.

[sandyk]

I checked with my iPhone mic and an app whether the Regen made the music louder vs. no Regen. It didn't.

 

Hi Jud

When low level upper harmonics are properly preserved, and not masked by low level wideband noise, female voices , for example, may sound a little louder and even slightly higher pitched. The same would apply to some instruments.

Actually, an increase in "Jitter" may often result in a perceived increase in level.

Regards

Alex

[sandyk]

Hi Jud

The attached from Doak sums up very nicely the result of lower "Jitter"

Barrows and others have also said similar. You should also be able to listen at higher levels than previously without listening fatigue.

Regards

Alex

 

 

I've found that I am listening, mostly, at considerably reduced volume levels -- because I can do so and still thoroughly enjoy all of the things I previously needed to raise the volume to hear. There is definitely an enhance "quietness" to the music, a sense that there's less going on/getting through besides just the music hence the ability to get more of the music at lower volume levels.

[sandyk]

HumanMedia

Were you using the supplied +7.5V SMPS plugpack to power it ? A good quality Linear PSU or a further improved SMPS supply (e.g. "Mystery PSU) will almost certainly result in a far greater improvement than any short USB lead or adaptor.

 

Alex

[sandyk]

Yep same results with a JS-2.

(But Regen aside the JS-2 takes the 2Qute to another level)

 

There must be another factor at play than the short adapter. My interest is piqued when I read other people's experiences where the Regen isn't an improvement. One person a few pages back said on one system the Regen was a complete improvement, but then on another the lower treble was a bit rough. It wasn't anything like my system but the negative aspect sounds exactly the same. Is there some other property of connected systems which induces an effect in either the Regen or destination DAC?

 

I am also intrigued if a second Regen would mitigate the issue? Bbecause of my location there is no one local who I could borrow another to try. Actually SandyK, I am in Sydney as well, so do you have a Regen yourself?

 

HumanMedia

The Amber Regen that I heard belonged to Audiophile Neuroscience. However, I gather that David is so busy listening to it, that the last I heard he hadn't even taken it out to see how his Bricasti M1 DAC performs without it !

David is however still using a 12V SMPS plugpack which is further regulated down to +9V, then through a John Linsley Hood designed PSU add-on (a type of Shunt Regulator) to power it. Without the improved PSU, I also heard pluses and minuses when listening to it.

With the improved PSU it was WOW !!

BTW, I am not a fan of a single Linear PSU (no matter how good ) also feeding numerous other devices. I believe there are advantages to further isolation of the power supply between peripheral devices. You could for example take a very good 12V output that also feeds other areas, and further regulate it down to say +5V for use with internal SSDs which would further reduce any interaction with the main +12V supply due to varying current demands by the SSD..

I would be surprised if the new "Mystery" PSU doesn't yield a further improvement over just using the JS2 to supply both internal and external devices.

Regards

Alex

 

N.B.

I am not knocking the JS2 or other Linear supplies, as they are undoubtedly a real game changer as far as SQ is concerned, compared with an existing internal SMPS .

[sandyk]

Yep I've got one too and I'm in Sydney

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Is your Avatar a hint at your location ? (North Head perhaps?)

It seems that Alex C and John have quite a following in Australia too despite the reduced buying power of the Aussie $ at present !

[sandyk]

Jud

I would be surprised if the "Mystery" PSU doesn't make the extra "Green" Regen redundant in many systems.

It's the quality of the power that makes the difference both in the computer and the supply to the Regen.

Alex

[sandyk]

Then prepare to be surprised.

 

There's no doubt clean power makes a difference - the clarity of the system's sound with the Regen(s) allows the difference to be evident. But with two Regens my power situation is *less* clean (the Green is powered by the iPower SMPS), yet the SQ improvement crosses a threshold that a single Regen does not in my system.

 

You are powering both Regens from 2 separate SMPS ? That means even more garbage going back into the AC mains supply.

I presume you are referring to the iFi USB power ? If so, quite a few members have reported a worthwhile improvement when changing to a good Linear PSU .Is the other Regen still using the supplied 7.5V SMPS ?

John Swenson's most recent PSU design is reported to overcome the SMPS disadvantage of up to half the AC mains supply voltage PLUS all the generated HF rubbish with it, from appearing between the output of the PSU and Earth. Even Linear PSUs using 2 pin mains plugs cause earth loops to some degree via the Neutral of the Mains supply.

[sandyk]

I would have to get a charger for them, but if they "sound better," then...

 

Another downside with those is that they are only 600mAH. You can get NiMHs of 2,400mAH capacity or higher.

[sandyk]

LiFePO4 are safer, and have longer life as well.

 

But you need a special charger to recharge them so they don't explode.

 

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/s4746f-aa-2500ma-nimh-rechargeable-battery-4pk/

[sandyk]

I'm going to capture the output of the Mac with and without the REGEN and do a polarity reverse in one file. I'm going to see if they null each other. If they do, it will show that the digital data coming from the REGEN and straight from the computer are identical. For me, that's proof enough that the DAC will produce the exact same analog output signal. We'll see.

 

 

What a stupid waste of time ! It would appear that he doesn't wish to believe that the Regen is capable of making such marked improvements, especially if the supplied +7.5 SMPS plugpack is replaced by/augmented with an improved PSU.

 

Extract from an email received from a participant at a recent Sydney listening session

WOW! What a positive difference your diy power supply made when plugged in to the Regen. I stopped analysing the sound and was enveloped in the music....

The best part is that Alex C will soon be supplying a John Swenson designed, improved PSU that will almost certainly put my simple DIY PSU to shame.

 

Alex

[sandyk]

What I found interesting is that his two buddies heard a difference and he didn't - the Mighty Mark Waldrep - maybe his ears aren't as good as he thinks they are. Statistically he's the odd man out, or would that be an expectation bias?

 

Yes, the dreaded Expectation Bias again. Add to that the fact that any resemblance between his studio with all the clutter of the mixing console etc. between the speakers and the listeners and a well set up listening room is purely coincidental.

There also appears to be a wooden floor under and behind the listening position.

He really needs to visit Barry D. to see how it SHOULD be done .

[sandyk]

Ah the other DAC was borrowed, right, hopefully with the same firmware.

How can you possibly hear anything with all that clutter in the room?

 

Contrast that mess with how Barry Diament monitors his recordings using high quality speakers of the type that many C.A. members would love to own ! (Magnepan’s 3.7s)

 

[sandyk]

I think the majority of our systems are so good than we will never heard a BIG improvement now.

 

It doesn't matter how good the rest of your system is, if the source isn't up to the same standard. The huge improvements heard at the Sydney listening session when the Regen was powered by a markedly improved PSU, were into a system worth >$100K, but the material was sourced from a Laptop. Not everybody uses Mac Minis with JS2 PSUs etc. that would have considerably improved the Signal Integrity being exported.

[sandyk]

But in this way, there is no way to prevent power coupling in the computer to Regen short link, am I correct?

 

If the Regen is plugged directly into the motherboard at the rear of the PC, there will be minimal coupling between the data and power leads. If plugged into a front USB port, there is an internal cable from the Motherboard to the front USB port , where there will be a degree of coupling between Data and Power wires before it gets to the Regen.

[sandyk]

Most of us put the regen near the DAC, with the adapter if possible. You can of course try both ends.

 

Most are of course doing that. I was replying to the 2nd option, which I believe is incorrect advice from Curious cables.

I don't like too much the idea of relying on a piece of tape to isolate the +5V lead at the PC end of the USB cable though. It can become displaced or fall out.

[sandyk]

Can anyone comment on the effect of the REGEN on "Hash" noise or flowing-water noise as I call it with and without the REGEN?

 

Someone commented in another thread in regards to my Raspberry Pi music server woes saying that a REGEN could possibly help with the "hash" noise I am experiencing which is not related to hard drives or power supplies. Both variables were eliminated already as the exact same noise was present with running the music from internal flash and using a LPSU to power the Pi.

 

I know everyone is expecting to hear major improvements when you insert your REGEN but perhaps there are other more subtle improvements such as when you put your ears really close up to those tweeters. IDK.

 

In each case, are you still using USB from the server to the DAC ?

IIRC, you previously suggested that the server may have been noisy ?

[sandyk]

Not if you use electrical tape. Can't get more simple or cheaper than that. I don't know what additional SQ issues that booster could introduce? Not too thrilled about adding additional items into my work flow.

 

Theoretically, Karin is correct, but the amount of extra capacitance would only be a few picoFarads at the most, and the impact should be negligible.

[sandyk]

You have to love the boasting by AQVOX.

 

AQVOX was the first company who discovered that the USB-Power from the computer is degrading the sound quality and we invented the LowNoise USB-Power solution with ultra short USB-Adaptors.

 

This was being discussed, and other solutions posted in C.A. by various members WELL before AQVOX made their PSU available !

 

Just that it looked like a wall-wart in the photo.

 

It's a 5VA transformer inside the case, which only leaves room for basic DC filtering and voltage regulation. A more expensive dedicated Linear PSU would almost certainly outperform it in this application

[sandyk]

Will the Regen have any improvement fitted between an Oppo105 and a portable Seagate HDD?

 

I would expect that it does , despite the 105 having a Linear PSU.

USB memory and USB HDDs sound better when powered via a low noise +5V Linear PSU and a modified USB cable (no +5V) into an Oppo 103.

I wonder if there are any other Melbourne members who could assist you in finding out with their Regens ?

[sandyk]

I am wondering if a better power supply would be that differentiating factor - what do you guys think?

 

Judging by my experience, that is a distinct possibility. If you are unable to find a better power supply in the meantime, why not hold on to it until the reports about it's use with the "Mystery" PSU start to come in?

Do you have any Audiiophile friends where you could try it in a different system ?

If you can find a cheap 7.2V battery pack with a lead that has a 2.1mm plug, you could try that with your Regen too..

[sandyk]

gldgate

Are you using a USB cable with the +5V isolated at the PC end ?

 

Alex

[sandyk]

So why all the attention focused on the REGEN? Is is because it works well for DACs from $250 to $50,000, and therefore threatens their oft stated notion that "any properly designed DAC should be immune"? Is is because admitting the REGEN is effective for many is a slippery slope that would lead those same folks to admitting that USB cables can sound different?

 

 

BINGO !

Some qualified people, no matter what the area they work in , will never accept that they may have been wrong about something in the area they have specialised in, as it opens Pandora's Box about what else they may have been wrong about.

[sandyk]

gldgate

It seems quite likely that the SOTM USB Card with HDPlex Linear Power Supply is greatly reducing the amount of correction needed by the Regen. It will have already rectified many of the major USB problems, including PSU noise coupling into the Data lines.

If you are playing music stored on your internal SSD with your markedly improved power supply for it, you will also have improved the exported Signal Integrity.

Alex

[sandyk]

It would seem to be OK to use splitter cables to power different devices which use the same voltage, provided the supply can deliver the total current draw comfortably. But there can be the possibility of a ground loop, so it's difficult to say precisely that any particular configuration is OK or not. Try it out and see

 

My two Regens are powered successfully by the same source with a 5mm x 2.1mm splitter cable, but they are connected to each other in a serial, or cascaded fashion. I would be wary of powering two devices that were separated by other components...

 

 

 

There is a good chance that they may even perform a little better if powered by separate voltage regulators from the same higher voltage supply rail. This should get around possible ground loop problems. Unfortunately, that may not be too practical.