Uptone Audio Regen

[Superdad]

UK as for Ukraine? :-)

 

No Sergii. UK for United Kingdom. But yes, I expect that delivery to you in Ukraine is going to be slow too. As it is, I had to pass security clearance at my local post office just to ship the package to you. Don't worry, the finger they pricked to take my blood sample is about healed up.

[Superdad]

Anybody out there using the regen with the Chord Hugo?

Have had a look for a micro usb male to male usb A adaptor with no luck.

Any ideas?

 

USB 2.0 Male to Male Micro B Cable Converter Adapter

 

They also have it with mini-USB if needed. Most of their items are also on Amazon. All this stuff comes from China anyway. I've cut open a dozen or more of these things and they are all about the same quality.

[Superdad]

Dude! That was actually a female to male connector! Duh it says that oh well ...

 

Oh, you are right. But the title does not match the photo in the listing. Typical I suppose.

 

These days I hunt parts a lot by using Google Image. That's often a much faster way of finding sources for the sort of things I am looking for.

[Superdad]

Which has better Sound?

Short Link USB Cable from Mac Mini to ReGen

OR

USB adapter from Mac Mini to ReGen

OR

MIT Stylelink Plus USB Cable from Mac Mini to ReGen

OR

Transparent Performance USB Cable from Mac Mininto ReGen?

Regards Wayne

 

That is a trick question, because the answer is none of the above. The REGEN works best at the other end, connected as close as possible to the DAC. Well you do mention some USB cables, so maybe with those choices you mean to connect the REGEN to the DAC with the solid adapter and run your long USB cable from the computer to the RREGEN's input. That's the best way.

[Superdad]

Have you tried your DAC with another hub?

 

When I was first playing around with a regen prototype I wound up in a situation where a DAC would not work, it turned out the software was accessing the DAC with it's full USB path which now includes the hub. But this software was using the path when it first "discovered" the DAC which didn't include the hub. To see if this is the issue try having your software re-discover DACs and see if it now shows up correctly. Doing a hot-plug might also help (turn off computer, unplug DAC USB connection, turn on computer, plug the DAC in).

 

John S.

 

Hi John:

 

I know Paul has tried his exaSound DAC with a generic hub and there too was not able to play music. So it is not an issue with the REGEN (which behaves just like a normal USB hub). He is on OS X, so I did have him look at the USB device "tree" in System Profiler. The REGEN does show up, and maybe even his DAC appears under it (not sure as the screen shot he sent was an unreadable 320 x 180).

 

I just spoke briefly to George K. of exaSound (he was driving down the highway so we agreed to speak again tomorrow), and he said that there should be no problem using his DACs through a hub--thus use of a REGEN should be possible.

 

The exaSound DACs are one of the few I know of where drivers are mandatory even on a Mac. That is odd since the FTDI USB input processor they use is suppose to be UAC2-compliant.

 

You are probably write that Paul just needs to fuss around a bit more with the order of selection. exaSound also requires device election in Audio MIDI Setup.

 

I know there are a few other REGEN owners here with exaSound DACs (Edward/Eurodriver comes immediately to mind but he won't be testing his REGEN until he returns from travel next week). Maybe someone else will chime in.

 

Hang in there Paul!

 

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

Alright boys, simmer down. I was going to let this pass when it popped up a couple days ago, but now I see I need to set the record straight:

 

I alone chose the Mean Well GS25A07-P1J for inclusion with the REGEN, though early on John did give a nice nod to the Mean Well brand based on his many past, non-audio related experiences with the quality/reliability of their units.

 

I had a bunch of physical, economic, and electrical criteria (likely detailed 15+ pages ago here), and I bought a whole range of available units (both SMPS and LPS of various brands) to test with the REGEN. This one sounded the best to me.

 

(And of course the JS-2 sounds better; though none of the PS units I tried--save for the really nasty one that came with the Geek Pulse--at all got in the way of the REGEN doing its er, REGEN "thing".)

 

iFi clearly has the volume and the channels to go to their Chinese SMPS supplier and specify in some improvements that still fit in the wall-wart form factor. That's great. And I would not be at all surprised if the RENGEN performs a little better with the iPower.

 

John (jexby), I am a bit curious as to where you got yours since while chatting with Rich B. at Signature Sound (NY) last night, he told me that the iFi distributor said that no iPower units were yet "in country." Did you get if from someone in Europe? Which voltage did you get?

 

As for measuring power supplies--and measuring what really matters with respect to what sounds the best (and it is all about noise, it's more about impedance, speed, recovery, and broadband crap)--that is a whole other can of worms. John started talking to me about making a test jig for easy, real world, in-use, under-load test that folks could use at home to actually see a very key performance aspect of any power supply and make comparisons. Only problem is, the comparisons would be valid ONLY at their home since the method has no calibration and any compares between two people would be totally invalid.

 

Ciao,

--Alex

[Superdad]

Once again, I cause confusion. I'll go away now...

 

It's okay Jason. Your enthusiasm is always appreciated. Just try to avoid assumptions.

 

By the way, John finally received his Kickstarter-funded 3D printer this week. (I forget which one it is, but based on his descriptions of it to me, it does have some really neat technical innovations in it--especially for the low price.)

He told me that one of the first projects he is going to attempt is an adjustable scissor-lift for the REGEN that would assemble from a single printed piece. I begged him to work on other projects instead . Engineers and their new toys...

[Superdad]

Was the iPower available when the Regen was developed?

 

No, it wasn't. Even if it was, do you really think iFi would sell me hundreds of them for a buck or two over their cost? I pay between $11-14 for the Mean Well (plus $2 for the power cord).

 

I suppose if we got into a position to buy 1,000 SMPS units, then John could also spec mods to make an upgraded unit. But frankly we have other, more innovative plans to address a power upgrade for the REGEN. With as many as are selling, don't you think my brain is racing to plan the add-on for it? (Cue the sound of an evil laugh. )

[Superdad]

Following the untried suggestions above, I uninstalled the exasound drivers using appDelete, rebooted the mac, turned on the the regen and dac, re installed the drivers and rebooted. Unfortunately still no joy, the exasound dashboard still says no dac is connected.

 

Looks like going to have to wait for Alex to talk to George at Exasound.

 

Paul

 

Hi Paul:

 

George phoned me today and we had a longer discussion about it. He told me that exaSound use their DACs with USB hubs at shows all the time (so they can switch between models without having to plug/unplug). So George said there is no reason why you should not be able to get it to work with a hub--or the REGEN which is 100% compatible as a USB hub.

 

Edward is on a plane headed back home now, and he too will be using the REGEN with his exaSound. But given what George said and what hifial reported, I am hopeful that you will somehow find a way to get your Mac to see the DAC. And as I said in my PM to you--I will refund your purchase if it does not work out (Though I am sure we can find an eager buyer in your neck of the woods rather than sending it back over here.)

 

George K. of exaSound said he would look up this thread as well--to see if he could help.

 

Since a growing number of people are using UpTone JS-2s and REGENs with their exaSound (and many other top rated DACs), I offered to send him a USB REGEN to try. He declined, saying that they prefer to stay neutral on such things as USB cables and other tweaks since their DACs are, and I paraphrase here: "engineered to be entirely immune to such things" and that "until they either read a technical white paper explaining the exact mechanisms, or measure the effects with their own equipment, they consider all such things to be just marketing and to not hold up to blind listening tests." I replied that I respect his stance. I would have pushed it by suggesting that I send him one to measure for himself, but I suspect that would have made him uncomfortable, and he is likely too busy to invest such effort.

 

It is quite okay really, as you gents who have a REGEN (and have read John's forthright posts that could well become a "white paper') know that the REGEN is the furthest thing from "snake oil."

[Superdad]

Just a heads-up everyone:

 

As of this moment (4:25 p.m. Pacific time, April 29), there remain only 5 unsold REGENs from the batch of 150 that will be ready to ship on the last day of May/first couple of days of June.

 

There is already an updated note on the REGEN page to this effect. I will be watching over the course of this evening and as soon as I see the last ones go I will change the notice.

 

Unfortunately, with our Japanese case supplier closed until May 11, I won't be able to get a date for a follow-on June run for another couple of weeks.

 

I am actually considering the batch to be sold-out a few shy of 150 units so I can hold back a few this time. For JS-2 buyer bundles, for a reviewer or two, or just in case one of the 150 boards that comes in fails Q.C. testing (did have one from the last batch with a chip soldering flaw; and one with a cracked USB jack).

 

All the best,

--Alex

[Superdad]

And then there were none. Until the sold-out 150 ship (May 29th-June 3), and the then the run after that—taking orders for starting now—which I am estimating will be about June 18th.

Please see my blog post for more details.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

John and I are looking forward to meeting some of you this Saturday at the "CA by the Bay" get together.

 

One REGEN (held in reserve for the occasion) will be raffled off, with the proceeds going to the charity of the winner's choice.

[Superdad]

Happy to read this has gone so well for you!!

 

Thanks tranz. Good to see you here. To be honest, I've been so buried with the business this last month that I have not had a chance to catch up with other interesting threads here. I see you've been making a few posts, so perhaps this weekend I can drop in to read a few of those you are into.

Best,

--Alex

[Superdad]

Well I'm now completely out of ideas about how to get the regen to talk to my Exasound.

 

…..

 

So looks like I might have to take you up on your kind offer Alex to take it back, but I hope not and that someone has the answer.

 

Hi Paul:

I bet yours being very early is the cause. Wonder if they have a firmware upgrade.

Can you take the matter to exaSound?

But put it in terms of the DAC not working with any USB hubs, rather than confuse the issue taking about getting to work with a device they know nothing about--and which George may already think falls in the "snake oil" camp along with USB cables (though anybody here who knows my and John's track record, knows that snake oil is NOT an ingredient in any of our products).

 

Best,

ALEX

[Superdad]

Alex, instead of going with an industrial desktop GS25A07-P1J SMPS, did you consider it's medical grade twin, the GSM25B07-P1J or would there have been no difference between the 2? Just curious as I thought medical grade regulated SMPS's were held to a higher standard & with tighter tolerances than their industrial counterparts but when I compared the specs of the two, I couldn't see any differences at all.

 

Thanks,

Robin

 

Hi Robin: With that range of Mean Wells, the only difference between the GS25A and GS25B series is that the latter has just a 2-pin C8 socket (skipping the ground provides the 2-MOPPs--"Means of Patient Protection") on the AC side. And I wanted people to be able to use any IEC60320/C13 cord set for their local country.

[Superdad]

Same guts inside, they just charge more. That's why health care is so expensive!

 

 

Actually, the same wattage "medical" models from Mean Well are a little less expensive. Probably because a C8 socket is a few pennies less than a C13.

 

What you would not believe is how scarce these 7.5V/22W units are. It is not a popular voltage. I spent a LOT of hours this week scouring the globe for enough units to cover the 3rd run of REGENs and have them on time. I already had sucked all the USA distributors dry to cover the end-of-May 2nd run of 150 kits. Now I am paying a lot of extra in air freight to get another 150 here by early June (UK stock, Taiwan stock, etc.). And am trying to make longer term arrangements with regular channels to assure consistent supply. Silly really, but still a bit of a headache.

[Superdad]

Question - previously had the power blocked with card on the usb A output of the macmini. So, with the REGEN there's no need? Further, is it still ok to leave the card in place ie. makes no difference?

 

Next question - anyone put the REGEN IN front of a usb/spdif converter (mine is a Cuinas)? Benefits?

 

Hi Jim:

 

You are right, it no longer makes a difference whether or not you have pin 1 (5vBUS) blocked on the cable from the computer to the REGEN as that pin is not connected to ANYTHING in the REGEN.

Blocking pin 4 (USB ground is probably not a good idea as it forces the reliance on the shield for data reference ground (at the computer USB port you will find those are common to one another).

 

BTW, the USB male/male A>B adapter I provide with the REGEN does not connect the shell-shields from one side to the other. It does not make a difference because, as I said, pin 4 and the shell become common at every device interface. But I did have a little chuckle when someone upthread posted a pic of the male USB 'A' shell of the adapter covered with tape. That did nothing.

 

Yes, people are reporting good results with the REGEN in from of USB>S/PDIF converters. It helps there for the same reason as with DAC USB inputs. Converters have the same sort of devices at their inputs, they are just outputting S/PDIF over a cable instead of I2S right into a DAC board. So far I think we have seen an Audiophilio user report about using a REGEN. Have not been keeping track of others.

 

Okay, I'm hitting the road to visit with John and to attend tomorrows "CA By the Bay" get-together!

 

--Alex

[Superdad]

Great suggestion but I have one of those Mad Scientist power cables that have big chunks of iron just before the iec connection. Can't do it. But tell me how much better Regen was with the short link versus the 6 inch USB cable. Or was it close?

 

Was playing around at John's place this weekend after the fun "CA By the Bay" get together in Berkeley, and sorry to report, I don't like the sound of the 6-inch cable at all versus the solid adapter. Found the cable very strident in comparison, and really messed up piano for me.

If one can't use the adaptor, then I'd suggest a very short but good sounding USB cable. John and I really like the Supra for the price, and I find it better balanced a enjoyable then several more expensive and well known cables I have tried (admittedly very few).

[Superdad]

Well, John and I spent the weekend testing and experimenting. We feel like cats who ate canaries! We have a BIG announcement coming VERY soon that will make everyone very happy. I'm just waiting to line up my ducks so the announcement can be done in a coordinated way with complete answers for the questions, excitement, and possible controversy it is going to generate.

 

I can't tell you what a hard time I am having keeping this secret for the moment. So just watch this space, the web site blog, and your e-mail (assuming you are on my list--as most of your are). It will be a simultaneous release so you are not likely to miss it.

 

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

oh. my. stars.

 

what could possibly be happening now- more wallet pain or audio gain?!

 

ETA of announcement- any hour now or within days?

good times!

 

No pain, just gain. Just a few days while I get caught up and also get dates. Nothing radical--well except for the sound.

[Superdad]

Why is the shipping date now 6/18/15 for the 3rd batch? I thought it was going to be 6/3/15.

 

First batch was the 95 units that you all are listening to. Second batch of 150 (for which the case arrive from Japan on May 19th--the day before I leave on a family vacation returning May 28) is sold out and those are what were set to ship by June 3rd.

 

So the note on the web site is telling people that they are now ordering from what will be the 3rd batch, and to expect shipment about June 18th. Also, whenever someone orders they automatically receive an acknowledgement telling them where their order falls and when to expect shipment. And of course anyone who changes their mind is free to cancel for a full refund.

 

I am pretty certain that by late June we will be caught up and all REGEN orders will ship directly from stock (assuming I can continue getting a steady supply of the 7.5V Mean Well SMPS selected to be part of the kit).

 

I appreciate everyone's patience.

 

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

In my opinion, the current Regen arrangement is unsatisfactory and a high quality flexible method of connection is needed. Thus I will stay with my iUSB Power and Wyrd unless and until this issue is resolved.

 

There is no guarantee that any form of usb adaptor is better than a direct plugin or a HQ short cable.

 

Hi Fred:

The performance differences between an iUSB Power/Wyrd combo (redundant really since the Wyrd both are cleaning the same 5VBUS line) and the fact that the Wyrd is not focused on improving signal integrity/impedance match aside, I am not understanding why you find the REGEN hack arrangement to less acceptable. Just like the Wyrd, the REGEN has a USB 'B' input and an 'A' jack output. There is nothing keeping people from running cables in an out of it the same way.

 

As to my choice not to hard wire a short USB cable to the output: That is for reasons of flexibility in use (some DACs have mini or micro USB input), reduction of assembly labor, and the inevitable question of what USB cable to use and the quality of the same.

 

All that said, there is absolutely nothing preventing someone from opening the REGEN, desoldering the 'A' jack (it's just surface mount so will desolder easily) and soldering on their own short USB cable--just be sure to run it through the jack opening in the faceplate beforehand so you can screw it back on.

 

I think we all learned a long time ago that you can't please everyone, and no device can be all things to all people.

[Superdad]

need help, no sound when regen plugged in. sb touch-regen-small usb cable(supplied with regen)-w4s dac2. dac set to usb 192. no sound. suggestions appreciated.

thanks,

drmike

 

Was just using the REGEN--in a number of plug and unplug experiments at John Swenson's--between his Squeezebox Touch and a Bottlehead DAC. Most surefire method is to, in this order: plug in (input and output) and power the REGEN, then power on your DAC, then reboot the SB Touch. Then check to the appropriate settings screen to check that the Touch "sees" the DAC through the hub of the REGEN.

[Superdad]

If using the adapter produces a better sound than using a really good cable, then there is something wrong.

He should look at the various strange arrangements that people here have devised to mount the Regen and

come to a conclusion on whether these are acceptable or not. To me, they aren't and that WAS my point.

 

Right. There is no problem with using a really good cable before or after the REGEN. But for best impedance match, there is no cable like "no cable." The 6" cable I provide--in case the adapter can't be used--costs $0.65 in 250 piece quantity. Maybe this 6" Belkin would sound better, who knows.

 

The original idea was to have a male 'B' plug coming off the PCB of the REGEN, but no such PCB mount part exists AFAIK, and still many people would have clearance issues and have to use a different adapter or female 'B' to male 'B' cable--an even odder order.

[Superdad]

still no sound, touch says need a high speed hub or do the usb workaround, this would revert it back to 44.1 tried this, still no sound. I am using a generic usb cable from my computer b/w the regen and the touch,don't know if that matters.

 

REGEN is a high-speed hub. Generic cable is fine. Since John has an SB Touch (and a REGEN of course), I am sure he will see this and chime in with some guidance. (Often he checks his e-mail and the forum about 1:30 pacific time--during his lunch break.)

[Superdad]

it's the dac 2, I was using the touch with bnc cable and also with hdmi cable. W4S modified my touch to use i2s. thank you so much for your help.

drmike

 

Ah, so are you saying you have never attached the Touch to your W4S via USB before? Are you able to get your Touch to work with your DAC via USB without the REGEN? I am sure you read carefully John's instructions in post #713 above.

 

And if you can't get your Touch and DAC to work together via USB, or if not with the REGEN, then I will be happy to refund your purchase. But as others here with SB Touch--including John--have indicated, it does work for them.

The REGEN, functioning just like a powered USB2.0 hub (jut sounding worlds better) should be 100% compatible with any system that is able to connect vie USB through a hub. But some computers/devices (like SBT) are fussy about what order power up happens in so that they recognize the hub and the DAC on the other side of it.

 

Keep us posted.

 

--Alex C.