Uptone Audio Regen

[Superdad]

Order #1009 :-)

 

Hi Alex

If I make a Y-cable, can I power a Regen plus an optical media converter from the same JS-2 outlet? The wall wart that came with the OMC is rated 9V/0.6A.

 

Yes, that should work with no problem.

[Superdad]

Would one of these USB power supplies (I already own it) be redundant or helpful? If the latter, would it go upstream or downstream of the Regen?

 

Power Block USB cable supply/filter

 

Should I just disconnect my IFI iUSB Power device or use it in tandem with the Regen?

 

 

For best signal integrity and impedance match, the REGEN should be allowed to generate its data signal as close to the DAC as possible (hence the very small case and solid USB adapter it comes with).

 

Any devices before the REGEN that are there just to make a better 5VBUS will no longer have an effect on the 5V received by the DAC because any pin 1 power coming into the REGEN is disconnected and replaced with power regulated by one of the unit's two best-in-class TPS7A4700 ultra-low noise regulators.

 

As for the continued benefit of any "filtering" or "signal conditioning" performed on the data lines by the range of other devices, the answer is that I really have no idea. We have never tested the REGEN in combination with other units. That's what all you guys are going to do and report on.

 

We have been very up front about the fact that even though the REGEN does, by virtue of its hub chip (that's all it is really, no secret "snake oil") create a new signal to drive the DAC's input, upstream changes (USB cables, computer PS, OS, etc.) do still make a difference. USB cable differences may not be as dramatic as before, but they are still there.

 

If we built a device that provided true galvanic isolation of the USB line--and still had it right at the DAC input--then maybe cables would matter even less. But the design for such a device would require a small FPGA, PHYs on both sides of it, and two power supplies (though maybe we would let the input side run on VBUS). A much more expensive proposition.

 

So the one item that I am interested in trying with the REGEN is the Corning USB cable, since:

a) that does galvanically isolate;

b) the REGEN will disconnect/ignore the Corning's low amperage, copper wire VBUS;

c) the lesser quality clocking/signal of the Corning's own hub/transceiver chip (there is one in there, certainly at the receiving end--it is just tiny and specialized as an optical receiver>USB PHY) is replaced by the REGEN's own signal generation.

 

 

Lastly, I'd like to emphasize that we believe the REGEN is helping the DAC as much or more than it is helping the computer. While I suppose when we are talking in general about better signal integrity (see John's writings for why this matters--the whole poor incoming-SI modulating PS and clocking inside the DAC thing), it is hard to separate the factors, everything upstream that is.

 

But what we have found is that the REGEN helps most on DACs whose USB input is very sensitive about what comes before. I guess that would be kind of obvious. To put it plainly, we have had some decent or good DACs with crappy USB inputs be transformed by the REGEN.

Yet even on DACs (or USB>S/PDIF converters) with really good USB implementations, we hear a striking difference. Not sure what my point here is. Things are, as always, a system--and should be looked at that way.

 

Hope the above makes some sense and clears things up a little.

 

Thanks for the diversion from dinking around with importing 100+ orders and addresses into my accounting s/w so we can start shipping in the morning.

[Superdad]

Hi Gang:

 

The past 24 hours had been frustrating--and now sad. All the REGENs are snug in their cut little boxes, and today was the day to begin shipping them around the world. But that did not happen!

 

Here's what did:

The last few days, in between coordinating final assembly and testing--and getting parts on order for the next batch--I have been wrestling with and learning about exporting orders and customer data, addresses, payments etc. from the Shopify e-commerce service I use. Figuring out how to first import it all into my accounting software, and then back out to a shipping label service or USPS itself.

With this many orders and with easily half of them bound for overseas destinations, there just was no way I was going to be able to copy and paste my way through that mountain. I always knew that, and, having identified the tools to automate it I figured the whole process would take perhaps 6 hours or so.

That turned out to be wishful thinking. And boy was I wrong about it being a smooth process.

 

The AccountEdge bookkeeping system (which we ran Hovland on for 10 years, and which I update almost every year) supports only Shopify with its web store "Connector" app--something I did not know when I chose to host there, but which seemed like a wonderful coincidence. But after activating it and figuring out how it's supposed to work (not terribly well), I hit the "sync" button to discover that it will only sync orders and clients cards for orders that are placed AFTER one connects the two services! Which does nothing for my order stack.

 

Undaunted, and being pretty good with importing/exporting CSV files with fields of data, I marched on and downloaded all the transaction data from my Shopify store. That's when I discovered what an inconsistent, unstructured mess it was--especially on all the international addresses. Bill-tos and ship-tos, odd country abbreviations and postal codes, plus special diacritical marks that got tuned into gibberish symbols, along with 30 other fields that duplicated some address data. Yuck.

 

I attacked it by reformatting and focusing on the critical ship-to data. I also separated out all the orders from you nice people who had bought from me before (a JS-2 or MMK), since you were already set up in my system. But all that still had to be cross-referenced since a lot of people used a different mailing address than before.

 

Anyway, you can see where all of this was going. PayPal and credit payment reports and fees, sales tax, ship methods and charges, blah, blah, blah. The hours of bleary staring and clicking just flew right on by! I finally had all a mostly audited and trimmed spreadsheet with all the orders and details--even got all the new customers imported into my accounting system--12 hours later, after an all-nighter that ended at 5:30 a.m.. Woke back up at 7:00 to take kids to school and to get back at it. Cranked for another 5 hours, even enlisting my assembler assistant (who had nothing to do since all the good are ready) for help transferring some order data between some pages, saving me considerable time when I get to actually entering the product orders into the now accurate customer records.

 

Since most of you opted for the economical and fast Priority Mail service, the next task was uploading all your addresses and e-mails (so you will receive tracking notification) onto the USPS site. Fortunately that went VERY smoothly--in large part because I had already spent all those hours standardizing the address fields and formatting.

 

I was feeling pretty good at that point. Well, as good as one can feel after sitting at a desk, with no sleep, feeling anxious to get all those boxes out the door so some of you (at least those in the USA) could play with them this weekend. The clock was telling me I had about 2 hours left to enter some labels, print some invoices, seal up a few boxes, and jet to town to make the 4:15 post office cut-off.

 

But as soon as I tried entering some labels, the USPS site stalled, then gave cryptic timeout errors and then finally just shut down and gave me this:

 

Now you know what I had plenty of time to tell the sad tale above. I don't use curse words on an open forum, but for a new reason today it was a good thing I have a soundproof office.

 

Anyway folks, I'm taking a break and will continue latter on tonight and in the morning. Some REGENs (and Udis' JS-2) will leave here tomorrow, and the larger flood of them on Friday and Monday (except for those who ordered extra of my custom DC cables; I'll work on those AFTER all the REGEN-only kits have shipped).

 

I hope none of you think I am complaining about what is truly good fortune and an exciting time for me. I just don't like to disappoint people when I set a target date for shipping, and though I pulled out all the stops to make it happen, I hit a wall--and a dead web site. (It's probably back up now.)

 

Thanks and regards,

 

ALEX

[Superdad]

Looks like I am not alone during this "tax day" frustration with USPS.

 

Usps.com - Is United States Postal Service Down Right Now?

https://downdetector.com/status/usps

 

Still can't squat there as of now. They darn well better have it fixed by the morning. Grrrr…

 

--Alex

 

P.S. Upon Jason's request, I sent him the DWG files for the REGEN case many months ago when he was thinking about modeling a cradle for it. I think the idea would be that the 3D CAD file for printing one would be made available somewhere (my web site makes sense), and that there would be a certain DAC USB jack height dimension that folks would to and plug it into the model to raise or lower it--and then use one of the online 3D print service firms to make it. I think that would be cool.

 

It is going to reside behind your gear, so Post-its or charcoal foam blocks are cool too.

[Superdad]

UPDATE:

About 1 hour ago the USPS site finally started to cooperate (early this morning it too 15 minutes to coax a label out of it for Udi's JS-2 and then the whole site stopped responding after that).

 

Now it's working fast and so am I. Trying to catch a lot of you thread posters first. But with a few exceptions (Danny, Norman, Jud), the bulk of units going out today and tomorrow will be to all the people who bought a JS-2 or MMK from me in the past--in part because your addresses, orders, and other infer were entered and massaged first.

Still have a sheet of 51 REGEN orders from new folks to enter (though their "cards" are already imported perfectly into both my accounting system and USPS address book).

 

Sure feels good to at least be getting some of these little fellas out the door at last.

 

Ciao,

 

ALEX

[Superdad]

At long last we have lift-off! The little REGEN birdies have begun their flights around the world. By the graces of some I.T. guys who fixed the past 24-hours USPS.com disaster (even the clerk at my local PO counter had heard all about it), I was able to--with our youngest son ditching his school homework to help--get 40 REGEN kits and a JS-2 out in time for the 4:15 postal truck departure from our small town.

 

Here's proof (and notice the time on the clock):

 

I'm usually a clean-shaven guy, but many such humane things fell by the wayside this week.

 

If your order shipped today, then a tracking number from the USPS should have appeared in your e-mail. (Sorry for the 2 notices you got Paolo; I canceled off the standard Intl. Priority Mail one after I remembered you paid for Express Mail/EMS shipping.)

 

Another dozen or so should make it out tomorrow (Friday), but the rest have to wait until about Tuesday next week since more of the fancy black jewelry boxes we tuck the kits into won't be here until late Friday. My assistant will pack those all on Monday while I get the paperwork in order.

 

Those of you who asked to purchase one of my custom Oyaide/Belden DC cables to ship with the REGEN should receive an invoice from me this weekend for the $60 balance.

(For those who don't know, this cable is just for JS-2 LPS owners who would like to try powering the REGEN from one of the two JS-2 outputs. The cable is just like the nice one that comes with a JS-2, except it has a 5.5mm x 2.1mm plug at the device end instead of a 2.5mm plug hole; 2.5mm plugs do work in 2.1mm jacks, they just don't hold as tightly. It is a hand-made, shielded cable with what amounts to a heavy 15AWG per conductor after pairing the star-quad of 18AWG wires.)

 

A few of you asked to purchase a JS-2 to ship with your REGEN. That was a nice surprise. Sorry I have not gotten back to you yet. Again, this weekend. By the way, I have chassis, R-core transformers, boards, etc. for only 5 more JS-2 units--which will be ready for shipping April 30th. After those 5 go, we won't be back in production of JS-2 until June due to lead times (and Japan Golden closure for 2 weeks).

 

John and I will be watching to read what you first recipients hear when you hook up the REGEN. I think they do take a bit of "burn-in," but that progression is nothing compared to the puzzlement you are likely to have as you put it in and take it out. The sensation is odd. You may scratch you head and think it can't be right; then you'll put it in and take it out a couple times more--and then realize how very right it is. I should not say such things in advance, but the darn thing makes me laugh every time I try it. I think John is really helping to advance the compromise that is USB audio.

I can't wait to talk with him when he gets back from his visiting family in Texas. His great post this morning was probably via poaching on a neighbor's poor wifi signal by sitting out on the porch getting bitten by insects (that's what he told me in an e-mail last Sunday).

 

Thanks again gang. Have a nice weekend,

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

..

[Superdad]

IIRC, earlier Superdad mentioned that the 9V iFi iPower (not iUSB Power!) would be a safe alternative option as the power source FOR the Regen.

not before it.

 

Yes, you can feed it with iFi's 9V wart if you wish. Let me know if you think it sounds better than the 22W Mean Well I picked for the REGEN. I am curious. I think Rich at Signature Sound promised to send me one of iFi's new $50 SMPS warts to try when it ships.

 

I don't find a real need to obsess over the supply feeding the REGEN. Don't get me wrong, a good LPS (like our JS-2, the only one I have personally tried with the REGEN) will certainly improve its performance a lithe bit. But it is nothing like the main benefit you get from the device's "reclocking" of the USB signal regardless of PS type.

 

Perhaps DACs that are using the REGEN's clean 5V VBUS output for their USB inputs will benefit more from powering the REGEN from a better supply. It is hard for me to say since the best DACs I have in house don't use bus power, and the ones I have that do are not very high end DACs in the first place. Maybe I will experiment some more when I have time. Or just leave it to you guys to report about it.

 

With regards the iFi iUSB Power: As explained previously, the REGEN does not connect pin 1 (5VBUS line) to anything, so whatever the iFi is doing will be lost on it (assuming you put the REGEN as the last device into the DAC as intended). However, pin 4 ground (and the shield) are attached, so perhaps any cleanup of those lines will aide a bit.

 

And I have no idea of the iFi does anything good for the data lines, though having to use a second USB cable to use it might take something away.

 

Do let us all know!

[Superdad]

I have tried the Regen today in both configurations. I still prefer the iUSB in front of the Regen vs Regen alone. I have a dual usb cable so I unplugged the power side from flowing to the Regen, but 5-10 times back and forth across multiple tracks, i prefer the signal side flowing to the iusb first. I will continue to try all configuration over the next few days.

 

 

Well that was quick! You obviously posted while I was writing the above. Glad you are experimenting.

[Superdad]

There could be some confusion here... I think that there is the recommended power for the regen and the "purity" factor - two different things.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/uptone-audio-regen-22803/index10.html#post411826

 

This links to the explanations from Alex regarding the recommended power for the Regen.

 

Jason is also right, but the confusion may emerge from the "iPower" vs the "iUSB"...

 

 

Thanks Alain. I'm starting to edit more clear versions of answers to questions for posting in the FAQ section of my web site.

 

Since for some reason the whole "can I power the REGEN on X volts" has become common (though as mentioned I don't think better power is large factor for the device), that was the first one I rewrote for (hopefully) greater clarity and posted on the REGEN's FAQ page.

[Superdad]

Placed my order this morning and now must wait patiently(?) until the end of May. Alex, the website is nicely done. Best.

 

Thanks for the order Melvin (and thanks EVERYONE; it's becoming a stampede!).

 

I hope to make time to keep adding to the web site. Not so much with products, but with FAQs, the overdue MMK installation pictorial, and a "Best of Swenson" tech talk section. But right now I am a bit buried and daydreaming about a second hire--an admin assistant to help with help with inventory/vendors and shipping/logistics. My one assembler is going to be maxed out in a hurry.

 

I just wrote to both my board house and enclosure firm with a 50% increase in the size of the second run of REGENs for end-of-May delivery. Exciting time, but a bit overwhelming. The best sort of problem to have I suppose. The worst of it is having to listen to my say "I told you so" with regards to what would happen when I finally put up a web site. Hey, it only took a few years to get around to.

[Superdad]

The worst of it is having to listen to my say "I told you so" with regards to what would happen when I finally put up a web site.

 

Hey, how did the word "wife" get edited out of that sentence as I wrote it? That's weird.

[Superdad]

ALEX, I did tell you that a flood was on the way and that productions probs would be your medium term nightmare.

 

If nothing else, can smell a hit! :-))))

 

Yeah Norman, you get to say "I told you so" too...

[Superdad]

FYI, although I promised to finish up shipments of the second half of the first run by this Tuesday, it's looking promising that I'll get them all kitted up, packed, and shipped on Monday.

The paper work for invoicing/shipping is the tedious part, and I'm knocking that out at a pretty good pace tonight.

Grooving to RadioParadise.com and discovering new music as I go, so I don't mind.

[Superdad]

Hi Alex, believe me !! is better Vivaldi's 4 seasons

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18096[/ATTACH]

 

No doubt! But how do you fit all those players into your living room--and then get them to play quietly late at night?

[Superdad]

I would say yes. The basic principle within both - either USB DAC or a USB Spdif converter - is identical. Both feature an USB receiver (very often a chip solution from xmos). The difference between the devices is solely after the USB conversion! (DAC is using internal i2s bus from the USB receiver, SPDIF is just a different communication channel)

 

So either you are using the REGEN with an USB DAC or with an USB Spdif converter, the advantages stay the same

 

Henning

 

Yes, Henning got it right (and this is just his 5ht post here at CA! )

 

Let's put it this way: if anyone using a USB>S/PDIF converter can hear a difference between USB cables, computer PS, or computer OS changes, then you are pretty certain to hear a very nice difference with the REGEN.

[Superdad]

Good news and bad news...I got my notice of a Friday delivery of my Regen. Bad news is I leave Friday for Axpona.

 

Sorry Ted, you could have gotten it Wednesday, but out of 100 people, you were the only one who chose USP Ground over the cheaper and faster Priority Mail 2-day. In setting the rates, I forgot to account for UPS's residential delivery surcharge, so that slow truck, with insurance, actually cost a couple bucks more than the $13 you paid.

 

Hope you enjoy Axpona-and the REGEN when you return!

 

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

turned wi-fi off today for the very first time (connecting now via ethernet) and... it definitely makes a difference

 

Congratulations Paolo. But hasn't everybody here been bugging you to do that for at least a year?

[Superdad]

Now if I could only experience that, the first step towards that goal is for Superdad to provide a quote from the website the other day that's slightly overdue, thanks.

 

Hi Gary:

 

They morning I did see the JS-2 quote request you sent late last night. Sorry I have not replied yet. Very busy day out in the workshop getting my assistant started on the last six JS-2 units for June 30th shipment (all the parts for another run of 50 won't be in until very end of May, with JS2 production picking up again in early June). Several of these current 6 are already sold, but let me look later tonight to see if there is still one uncommitted for you if you want it. I'll e-mail you.

 

I am usually more on top of things, but if you saw the recent explosion in my e-mail box you'd understand. But now that all 100 of the first run REGENs are shipped out, I can focus more on communications, parts procurement, and maybe even some very overdue accounting and planning.

 

BTW, John Swenson has returned home at last. We just got off a wonderful 2+ hour catch up call. He is glad you all are enjoying the REGEN and his posts. And we are hatching other plans for after he wraps up a couple of his current projects. Exciting times ahead.

[Superdad]

Advice on brand of female A to male B usb adapter needed to connect Corning optical cable to USB Regen input i.e. one that's got proper impedance or same as adapter that ships with USB Regen?

 

Remember, the Corning has a male A plug at sending end and a FEMALE A socket at the other end. So the adapter you need for input to the REGEN's B jack is just another one of the male/male A>B adapters that I provide with the REGEN for its output side.

 

Now before anyone goes asking me to send them one:

a) Sorry, I have no time to mail single adapters.

 

b) I am totally out of stock of the only version in the world that I have found with the A and B sides oriented such that the REGEN is not upside-down when plugged into a DAC. (Until just this morning, I was fretting about being able to get a steady supply of these in a timely manner without having to buy 1000 pieces.)

 

c) They are pretty cheap, so if someone--has a REGEN on advance order for end-of-May/first-of-June shipment--and wants an extra then to support their Corning, just e-mail me near the very end of May and I'll make a note to toss an extra in. (If you e-mail me now about it I will delete you e-mail; I did not stay up to 2:am last night playing catch up replying to everyone only to have my box filled with requests for USB adaptors I don't have. )

 

d) While the male/male A/B full size USB adaptor must be the single least popular adaptor combo--judging by general availability--here is a link to one (well a 2-pack) on Amazon: Amazon.com: L.L. USB Type A Female to USB Type B Male Adapter, 2 pack: Electronics

It does not have the orientation I needed for the REGEN, but for use with a cable it does not matter at all.

 

e) Early on I bought samples of every version of this adapter I could find (easy to tell there are just 3 places in China making this combo since there are only 3 grip molds to be seen). I cut every one open and dissected their hard plastic inners to check the gauge of the wire and to be sure they use copper wire (heard some rumor that some used steel wires--untrue). Could not find any difference among them worth commenting on. The ones with the orientation we needed happened to fit the tightest as well, so that was nice.

 

f) All of these adapters--at least the ones I tried--do not connect the shell/shield between the two sides. But of course they connect pin 4 ground, so once they are plugged into anything the shell becomes common to that.

 

So there you go. More than you ever wanted to know about stupid USB adaptors. I sweat this s**t so you don't have to.

[Superdad]

... but it is when plugged into an Audiophilleo

 

Well that's because Audiophilleo mounts their board upside down in their case. Most DACs have the curve of the "D" at the top since that is how the PCB-mount "B" jacks are oriented. You can't have everything…where would you put it? (Steven Wright)

[Superdad]

After a few more removals and insertions though it is not requiring as much force as the first time.

 

Insert juvenile joke here ^. Or not.

[Superdad]

I very much like Alex's thougt that wherever a USB cable is influencing SQ, a REGEN is very likely to make a difference as well.

 

Well I was thinking/speaking of DACs and USB>S/PDIF converters at the time--in answer to someone's question of if the REGEN would make a difference with the latter.

 

I too am a bit dubious about if there would be any benefit (as far as data signal integrity) sonically for a USB HD. Frankly, I avoid having USB hard drives attached to a computer feeding a USB DAC. (My disdain for USB music storage dates back to my interface comparison report of 2 years ago.)

 

But there is certainly no harm to experimenting. We may all be surprised. I have been meaning to try a REGEN with my external Apple Superdrive optical drive--just to test SandyK's theory/reports about better PS, etc. improving CD rips (even when the bits are the same). Hard to fathom, but so are a lot of things until we test and research.

I go by the maxim of having an open mind and open ears, but I'm careful not to fool myself. I'm just as happy to say "no difference" if I don't hear one. Am interested in real, repeatable, significant gains. There are still plenty of those out there to be had, so no need to sell of buy "snake oil."

[Superdad]

The USPS let a CD I ordered take a one week vacation somewhere in Oregon just last month! It took 12 days just to go across the country. Actual travel time less than 7 hours including the time on the truck on delivery day. I know, I'm beating a dead horse here.

 

All right, do you guys really want to talk about shipping? FedEx is always an option, but then we are talking upwards of $100 to some locations. I just reordered 80kg worth (50 pcs.) of R-core transformers for the next run of JS-2s, and the FedEx bill for those will be $580. The alternative of course is ocean freight, but aside from the weeks of extra transit time, the brokerage fees, local delivery costs, and huge paperwork hassle result in almost no savings in the end. Maybe if we were located right next to the Port of Oakland or Port of Los Angeles.

It is all just the cost of making the world smaller... And being able to ship something easily to anywhere on earth for $23.50 starts to seem a bargain.

[Superdad]

Alex- I was just trying to be cute.

 

No problem Danny. Yours does look to have been "in country" since last Wednesday, so it should arrive to you soon.

 

I meant to add a note of sympathy to everyone overseas whose REGENs are still en route. Should not be long now, and I have actually been seeing delivery notices--or at least released-from-customs updates for France, Italy, Hong Kong, Singapore, and elsewhere. I must admit that UK post seems a bit slower than the rest.