Uptone Audio Regen

[Superdad]

Yes, hidden in the back. Maybe I am still undecided. My only issue with black end caps is that then the silk screening has to be white or silver. I am sure that is not a problem for my vendor.

All silver or all black? Kind of boring. It's just like that with cars. All the companies offer the same range nondescript colors.

 

Jason, I may have a surprise for you early next week. And if it works out, you get a bonus! Seriously.

[Superdad]

If this is directed to me...alright.

 

Yup, you're the only Jason I see hanging around here.

[Superdad]

Hi everyone:

 

I REALLY love all the interest, enthusiasm, and anticipation for the our USB Regen, but some days I almost regret pre-annoucing it just because keeping up with the e-mails and questions can keep me busy all day! So thank you for that!

 

So let me say a couple of things about the "notification list": If you have ever bought anything from us (a JS-2 or MMK), or if you have ever received an e-mail from me (either personalized or one of my "newsletters"), then you are already on the mailing list. Once we have boards and cases in hand, you will ALL receive a e-mail to your private address with a photo of everything that will be in the package, along with price and shipping cost.

 

So those of you for whom I already have an e-mail address, posts or messages to me expressing interest or wanting to reserve one are at the present time not necessary (this is not a crowd-fleecing, er, funding campaign).

 

However, if you have never sent a message or received any product or message from me, then please message me on CA and include your private e-mail address (I promise never to sell or reveal it anywhere, and my "newsletters" are very sporadic so you won't get a bunch of them).

 

You are also welcome to send a mailing list request directly to my [email protected] e-mail address (one would think I would have set up an @uptoneaudio.com address by not, and although I own that domain name, I'll have to wait until I finally set up a web site--promised my wife that would be by the end of March.)

 

 

Okay, back to the Regen itself:

 

With regards to the output connection to one's DAC or other device, it is likely that I will include both a solid male/male A/B USB adapter, AND a 6" A/B USB cable. Like these:

 

Hang tight gentlemen. It won't be too long.

Thanks and regards,

ALEX

[Superdad]

I would like the solid model of the enclosure so I can 3D print a cradle though. Can you supply that?

 

Check your private e-mail address Jason. USB 'A' output jack will be exactly in the center of the end panel (both axis).

[Superdad]

 

It is only Monday Jason--and a holiday at that. Give me another day or two and your patience will be rewarded!

[Superdad]

Sorry guys, I got really busy at the end of the week. And today I am procrastinating on doing my taxes on this rainy Sunday.

 

Anyway, here is the announcement and Jason's (jtwrace) thank you bonus:

 

Jason really pushed me to reconsider and try a new round of domestic bidding on production of the PCB for the Regen (raw 4-layer PCB, and surface-mount assembly). And although I knew JAXX Manufacturing was producing boards for Schiit Audio, I had never had them bid. So I went ahead and contacted them. The owner is very friendly and professional, and the bid he gave me was quite competitive with our usual Canada/China vendor. Because JAXX was really busy but wanted to give me a good quote, they gave it to me piecemeal throughout the week. Their assembly labor bid was amazingly low (on my Mac mini MMK board also), but the final turnkey bid with parts and PCBs ended up being about equal to the quote from our regular house--even with high chipping costs from China. Still, being able to go domestic, with a facility that I can even visit on trips to Southern California, not having to hassle with wire transfers (heck he is offering me terms, but I have a cash in advance mindset, so I'll take a prepay discount), and all the other good things about such--has me quite happy.

 

So as a "thank you" to Jason, he will be receiving a free UpTone Audio USB REGEN for free once shipments from the first 100 units begins. Based on lead times, I am still shooting for the end of March.

 

BTW, in discussing technical details of the changeover to a different PCB fabricator, John had me provide to the new vendor the 4-layer "stack-up" specs that our regular board house uses. Things like gold immersion (called ENIG), the thickness of the cores between the copper layers, the "Prepreg" material, etc. all matter because with this 4-layer board John designed it for optimal impedance matching. So I asked John if the prototype boards we have been listening to--made by a different, local house he uses for protos--had the stack-up he designed to. He said no, and that means the production boards, when done to the specs they were designed for, will have better impedance characteristics and may sound even better than what I have been listening to. Oh boy!

 

Okay, back to our darn taxes…

[Superdad]

Have you decided on a power supply? Can you give us any details?

 

This has been a big week for REGEN. I'm spending money like mad. Boards are on order and should arrive by March 25. Looks like the first run--with boards, chassis, PS, and all the goodies--is going to cost me about $8,000. Major butterflies in my stomach.

 

Have spent a ton of time researching small power supplies to include with the REGEN. Buying samples, listening comparisons, busting them open to check build quality, etc. Choices are somewhat limited in that the output voltage needs to be:

a) Above 6 volts since one of the expensive ultra-low-noise regulators is being used to make clean 5V for any USB devices which need it;

but

b) Below about 9V since we want the REGEN to be usable by those people whose DACs are entirely bus powered, and if one of those DACs draws the 500mA USB-spec allowed max., then the 4V drop from 9V to 5V is going to generate 2W of heat on a regulator with no heat sink. (If not using an entirely bus-powered DAC--say just powering your USB input, then a 12V or greater supply could even be used, though there is no need.)

 

Thus I have been looking in the 6-8V range, and that is what we are silkscreening below the DC jack. Lots of 5, 9, and 12V supplies, but fewer in between.

And oh, we can forget about including a linear. The affordable tabletop linears are unregulated (just a transformer and diodes) and are crap. The regulated linears are wall warts and unless one spends a LOT for a giant beast that covers your whole outlet, they just don't have much reserve capacitance and sound thin. Besides, I ran into the voltage range thing there too--mostly 12V and 24V.

 

So it has come down to picking the best affordable, SMPS. It has to be from a quality manufacturer--no untraceable junk off Alibaba--and readily available. I examined models from all the usual reputable brands, and for construction, raw specs, and availability in the desired voltage, Mean Well came out well above the others (plus John has used those for years with his computers and finds them reliable and quiet--and I think they kick a bit less noise back into the AC mains than most others).

 

I went back and forth with regards to their GE24 series which are wall warts with interchangeable plugs for various countries--versus their GS25A series which are small bricks with a standard IEC320/C14 inlet so people can use a short cord with their own local plug (I'll provide an 18-inch shielded one). With the 7.5V version the former is a 15W unit and the latter is 22W. The largest wattage units seem to have the most reserve capacitance at their outputs even though they are overkill for the tiny REGEN. Yeah, Mean Well makes a 40W and 45W version also, but they got expensive and are not well stocked in the 7.5V edition. Starts to get silly anyway. If you want ultimate SQ from the REGEN, then an awesome LPS will be the way to go.

 

I listened to a bunch of these things and other than not liking the little 0.5A/6V linear regulated Jameco, and LOVING the UpTone JS-2, there was not a world of difference between the various SMPS I tried in this application.

 

So unless someone comes up with some fantastic, affordable, and available small PS (one dimension needs to be 40mm or under to fit in the planned box) in the next 5 days, here is the one you will be getting with the USB Regen: Mean Well GS25A07 (BTW, despite what the spec sheet says for the lower voltage units, the DC cable on this model is a shielded 16awg, not the thinner 18awg.)

 

All that said, John and I are simmering an idea for a super-clean, totally unique, add on PS for REGEN, but it won't be cheap. Based on rough parts, it would retain for more than the REGEN itself. But we would also make it switchable between 5V and 6V since once people see this they will be dying to power SSDs, etc. with it.

 

Speaking of prices, I promise to publish the final price for REGEN by the middle of next week. Still waiting on the milling/silkscreening quote from Japan.

 

By the way, based on popular demand a desire to look classy, the REGEN is going to be black on black.

 

That's all for now folks!

 

--Alex.

[Superdad]

Regenerate?

 

Yup.

[Superdad]

Superdad is a huge Reagan admirer but a bad speller.

 

Good grief Jud. Please don't start such rumor.

[Superdad]

Take my money now!

 

Thanks Tommy, but this ain't no crowd-fleecing campaign!

 

But seriously, I will be announcing the price on Monday.

I misunderstood my Japanese enclosure supplier on the lead time for the milling/silkscreening. I thought he meant they would ship on March 27, but he meant 27 business days. Luckily I think they work Saturdays, so they still should ship to me April 3rd or sooner--add a couple of days for FedEx. I will have the finished PCBs (made right here in California!) the last week of March, so I can spend the time testing, etc.

 

Have a great weekend everyone,

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

any news on the pricing?

 

The Uptone/Swenson USB REGEN will be officially priced at… drumroll please… $175.

 

Includes:

a) the REGEN itself in an all black with silver printed aluminum case (57 x 46 x 18mm)

 

b) the best spec'ed and sounding 22 watt/7.5V/2.93A (overkill) tabletop (93 x 54 x 36mm) SMPS I could find (use a nice linear if you want--in the range of 6-9V; or even 12V or more if your DAC is not deriving all its power from USB bus);

 

c) an 18-inch Volex shielded 18awg power cord to go from the SMPS to the wall (get fancy or if you are overseas use a power cord with locally appropriate plug);

 

d) a male/male USB A/B solid adapter plug (for hanging the REGEN right from the back of your DAC; maybe stick a block of something under it if you feel it needs support);

 

e) a 6-inch male/male USB A/B cable if things are too tight around your DAC's USB input or you just don't want to use the solid adapter.

 

f) a three-year, transferrable warranty.

 

Assuming we can get everything into a USPS Small Flat Rate Box, postal shipping in the USA is just $5.25; to Canada is $19.50; Rest of world $23.50.

 

The customized enclosures will be the last thing to arrive--at the beginning of April. So shipments to all you fine and impatient people can begin middle-April. I'll send out an e-mail to (the private addresses of) everyone on our list at the beginning of April to begin taking orders and money. (I won't accept a dime until I have circuit boards in my hand and tested.) :)

 

That's all for now folks!

 

--Alex C.

 

[Superdad]

Alex,

 

Am I correct that I can power the Regen from my JS-2?

 

Thanks,

 

Randy

 

You bet! Just switch one JS-2 output to 7 volts (will work on 9 or 12 as well, but it all gets dropped to 3.3V and 5V on the REGEN board anyway, so no point).

 

To the person asking for pictures in March: I'll be able to take a pic of the PCB, the goodies (SMPS and USB adaptor, cable, etc.), and the sample case I have, but end plates with actual holes and printing won't be seen by me until production cases arrive just days before we start shipping.

 

Here is what the other end looks like (again, printing will be silver on black anodized finish). That unmarked 3mm hole near the left is where a dim green LED will be flush to the face and let you know that the thing is powered on.

 

 

This device is not glamorous looking, but what it does for the music will hopefully make you swoon.

[Superdad]

Alex-

Could a JS2 be setup to power a Regen, a Motherboard, and an SSD (each on it's own connection)?

Regen sounds like a great device, and the price is good. I will probably order one once I get a few other purchases out of the way.

 

Hi Danny:

Well, the JS-2 has two independently adjustable outputs that can each be set at 5,7,9, or 12V (and with the Kelvin-sense connection on DC2 one can make custom voltages from 1.25V to about 13.5V).

Current is no problem, so you could power a motherboard at 12V from one output, and use a DC plug Y-cable at 5V on the other to power an SSD and the REGEN.

[Superdad]

Hello Alex,

thanks for the good news.

i just have one question, what will be the plug diameter for the DC input?

If it's not 5.5mm/2.5mm I want to anticipate and be able to power it with my JS2.

 

Francois-Paul: The DC input jack on the REGEN is a 5.5mm x 2.1mm. For a while I thought of going with a 5.5mm x 2.5mm like on the JS-2, but all the SMPS units I tested for the REGEN had 2.1mm jacks. You can connect a 2.5mm plug to a 2.1mm jack (it's only 0.4mm difference), or for your JS-2 you can get a 2.5mm>2.1mm cable or adaptors.

[Superdad]

I assume this device will also benefit people who dont have a usb Dac but instead use a usb converter?

 

Hi Tommy:

Most definitely! And it should also help SQ for people driving USB DACs from devices like the Auralic Aries.

 

The key thing to getting the best benefit is to always put it closest to the DAC. I have tried it at the other end of the cable--plugging it directly into my Mac's USB port (by reversing the provided A/B adaptor and putting it into the input side), and while it still helps, it is more dramatic at the DAC end of the cable since the REGEN provides excellent impedance matching to drive the DAC input with a really good signal.

 

Of course it's secondary benefit--of providing cleaner DC to any DAC that uses some USB VBUS power--will take place regardless of which end of the cable you attach it too.

 

Regards,

ALEX

[Superdad]

Good afternoon gentlemen:

 

I'm catching up from being out for a couple of days with family stuff.

 

@Paolo, Dave, Rich, Jeff: You are all on the mailing list to receive info for ordering, etc. at the beginning of April. Thanks for your enthusiasm.

 

 

@Jack: Not sure that there will be much if any benefit to REGENs in series, or even having one at both ends of the cable. The REGEN's primary function is to generate a completely new USB data signal from a carefully chosen USB hub chip running from an ultra low-noise regulator and low-jitter clock--which it does with ideal impedance matching and right at the input of your DAC.

 

Its secondary function is that it interrupts the 5VBUS of the USB cable coming into it, and provides clean 5VBUS on its output--for DACs that need it--via a second ultra low-noise regulator.

 

But we will all have fun experimenting with it.

 

 

@Tranz: While neither John or I have a Berkeley Alpha USB>S/PDIF converter to test with, I do think it will responds positively. Even with regards to the REGEN's secondary function of providing clean USV 5VBUS power as--from what I can tell from close-up photos--the Berkeley uses that to power its entire USB input side (PHY, XMOS, and USB clock). That allows them to include a single PS for the "clean" S/PDIF side (everything on the other side of the digital isolators which are underneath that lamination horseshoe). So I am assuming that some people with Alpha USB units have already experimented with feeding clean USB 5V power into the Berkeley.

 

As John said (here and elsewhere): The REGEN is about improving "signal integrity" of what the DAC or converter is fed so that its USB PHY chip does not have to work as hard to decode the data from the voltage/noise. That results in less generation of packet noise voltage (in the data steam and often around the 8kHz USB packet rate but also broadband), less perturbation of the PS from spikes, and less ground-plane noise.

 

Let's put it another way: If you can hear a difference between USB cables and upstream computer stuff, then the REGEN will definitely have an effect! (I did a double-take when I tried it with my desktop system which is just a pair of AudioEngine P4s.)

 

Ciao,

--Alex

[Superdad]

Maybe someone should try this: Chernobyl Filter and Chernobly Network Filter from sandman.com

 

A rather unfortunate name. Hey, its by Chernobyl engineers, what could possibly go wrong?!

 

But hey, as it so prominently says with a plaque on its web page, "All Chernobyl Filters™ are blessed by an ordained minister to prevent future bad juju."

 

Wow.

[Superdad]

...I'd need 1A with 12V. Do you think this one would work?

 

That is an unregulated supply. Just a transformer, diodes, and a small filter cap. Not what you could call a "clean" PS at all.

[Superdad]

Alex,

 

Apologies if I do not yet fully understand this, but how important is the REGEN to a Mac Mini based system driving a USB DAC, if one also is also using the JS-2 and MMK?

 

As we have discussed in PMs, I want to upgrade to a new Mac Mini (2014 with PCIe flash storage), and would like to incorporate the improvements that can benefit this. Relatedly, is the upgrading of a 2014 Mac Mini with the JS-2 and MMK straightforward? I have installed memory and SSD in my Mac Mini and MacBook Pro, but do not know if the new Mac Mini is equally straightforward to deal with.

 

Hi Thomas, nice to hear from you.

 

Let me apologize in advance for answering your question very briefly--the recent explosion of orders for JS-2 combined with the REGEN project have me scrambling to keep up with both production and e-mail (I just started putting out local word for a part-time assembler that I can train; otherwise I will fall off this tiger.) Happy but a bit overwhelmed.

 

 

The forthcoming REGEN is of benefit to the USB data lines between any DAC and transport source (computer, streamer, whatever). For Mac users it is a bit like having an audiophile USB card--but right at the input of the DAC where it belongs (so we suspect even PC users with Paul Pang or SOtM USB cards will appreciate the REGEN).

So yes, regardless of your upgraded computer power system, the REGEN does its thing, which is to generate a completely new USB data signal from a carefully chosen USB hub chip running from an ultra low-noise regulator and low-jitter clock--which it does with ideal impedance matching and right at the input of your DAC.

 

 

Our MMK (Mac mini DC-conversion/Linear Fan Controller Kit for those not familiar with my abbreviation) is fully compatible with the 2014 model. Quite a few people have installed it in that one already. And I think the 2014 mini with PCIe Flash is an excellent machine. I may buy one for various use an experimentation versus my 2012 i7.

 

Oh, I just found some text I sent in a recent e-mail to explain in detail the slight difference in installation:

 

The main difference in the installation is the attachment position of the very small intermediate connector board. The 2014 mini does not have a plastic fan shroud over the heat pipes--and that was were the little board attached, with flat cable straight across, on the 2010/'11/'12 models. So instead you will curve the flat cable on its side (like going around a banked racetrack corner) and attach the board at the front-center area, on top of the hard-drive bracket. The attached picture, taken by a client, will make it easy to see. I think you will be able to do an even neater job, but you will immediately understand where it needs to go. Even if you have the nice PCIe Flash drive new to the 2014 mini, you can just have the cables go over that (maybe the black wires will go under).

 

The only other difference is that the black bottom cover of the 2014 Mac mini gets pried off (try one of the gray or black plastic tools included with the MMK), whereas on older units the black bottom twisted off of key-hole screws. And after you take off the black bottom, there are now 6 screws to remove the round metal cover. These screws are Torx T-6 size--same as earlier models--but it is the "security" type of Torx screw, which has a tiny point in the middle of the hole. The supplier I use for the toolkit provided has been waiting to get the "security" type T6 to include in my kits (there was a West Coast ocean port strike for several months and the tools have been stuck somewhere there). The T6 screwdrivers in the kits ready at the end of March should have the correct "security" screw drivers.

 

Please also refer to the graphic teardown instructions at

 

[Superdad]

Hi Alex,

What would be your suggestion be. It'd be for the wireless switch.

Thanks I'm advance

André

 

André: I recommend one of the 25W Mean Well SMPS, from the GS25 series. Can be GS25A (table-top) or GS25U (wall-mount, USA plug; GS25E is Euro plug). They are quite well-made and sound fine, even for an audio component. Tried one on the Geek Pulse DAC as an upgrade to the $3 wart it came with. Was no JS-2, but it was much better than the stock one. They are only about $14. Definitely go for the higher wattage versions. Jameco stocks Mean Well.

 

I posted a long screed about my hunt for an inexpensive PS to include with the REGEN as a reply to an off-topic challenge about it from "fmak" here:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-cable-comparisons-14397/index34.html#post405459

[Superdad]

A JS-2 of course! LOL

 

I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't recommend a $925 PSU for a wireless switch.

 

Quite true! Please don't waste JS-2 outputs on a wireless switch! (though who knows?)

 

DACs, USB>S/PDIF converters, the REGEN, a headphone amp, a computer, an SSD are the descending priority order I recommend for our supply. The computer stuff is almost "slumming it" for a JS-2 (though it sounds great there an stands up to the competition constantly on computers), but not that many high-end DACs run off an external +DC voltage.

The Metric Halo ULN-8 and the exaSound DACs are two notable exceptions that come to mind because of the six units shipping this next week, one is going to a Metric Halo owner and two are going to exaSound DAC owners (Eurodriver/Edward being one of them). The "goodness" of a JS-2 and its various design choices really shine with DACs and audio components.

 

Now there is a fellow here from France that has bought 4(!) JS-2s (one he sold to a friend), and another from Canada who owns 2. But frankly with the flood of new orders these last 3 weeks, if someone asked to buy more than one JS-2 I might be inclined to turn then away until I can boost monthly output past my current dozen or so. (I am actively trying to hire a local part-time person to train for assembly).

[Superdad]

Alex,

Are these Mean Well ones that you referred to switching power supplies?

 

Yes, they are SMPS. Mean Well makes some of the best switchers--unless you want to spend $150, and then you should look at small linears. But I have not been able to find quality tabletop regulated LPS units at low cost--at least not in the output voltage range I was looking (there is a bit more on offer at 12V).

 

What kind of DACs? Is it only for DACs that have that kind of input? This is just curiosity, since I'm guessing my DAC doesn't fall into the category that are powerd by external PS, but I did once have a DAC that had one, the Camelot Uther.

 

Your Resolution Cantata already has several carefully done power supplies built in. Jeff Kalt is a friend and a sharp guy. He has done a wonderful job with that product. I wish the Cantata would get the wider recognition it deserves. I assume that you are still very happy with yours?

 

Best,

ALEX

[Superdad]

Yes, I really love my Cantata. It's a very well-thought-out and versatile source that sounds even more gorgeous than its looks, which are already something to behold. I guess that once I tweak everything around the ethernet input it'll play as well as it does through the coax with my SBT (with Welborne LPS) as transport.

 

André: How come you don't use the USB input of your Cantata instead of the S/PDIF? Do you not have the mod for USB from the Squeezebox Touch?

 

Also, have you ever tried Jeff's Pont Neuf USB>Ethernet adapter?

 

Cheers,

ALEX

[Superdad]

Did you make some experiment with Neutrik connectors?

I don't know.. I listen about those connectors are the best...

there's a way to get a special edition with this connector??

 

Sorry Issac, but I don't see how or why those large panel mount gender-changing USB connectors would be of any use or benefit to the REGEN. We use surface-mount jacks and control the impedance so that the small REGEN can mount right at the DAC's USB input and provide maximum benefit.

 

Thanks for the thought though. Hope you are still enjoying your JS-2.

--Alex.

[Superdad]

Superdad,

 

do you have a GeekOut USB DAC/Amp laying around?

it would be cool to see a photo of it's male USB plug, inserted into the Regen.

;-)

 

 

Our daughter will be home from college for spring break next week. I gave here a GeekOut as a going away present last year. I'll ask her to bring it up. If she does, I'll try it out with the REGEN and post a picture. Thanks for the idea. John said that his REGN did a lot for the HRT Music Streamer he had laying around. However I'm not expecting that portable dongle-DAC users are going to be a large part of the market for the $175 REGEN. But who knows...