Merging HAPI as ASIO output device

[bmoura]

And they left out the most important convenience feature of all - no IR remote.

 

If you are using JRiver with the NADAC, JRemote does a fine job of remote control with the NADAC and your smartphone or tablet.

 

That's what I'm using with the Multichannel NADAC MC-8 here.

[bmoura]

Merging NADAC MC-8. RRP $14000. I have already made my observations in an earlier post. Unit price of the ESS Sabre 9008S $47. Note the 8 channel version is a $1000 premium over the 2 channel version. I can't find a picture of the internals of the 2 channel version.

 

This is what the NADAC is up against. Of course, all the other DAC's I depicted are two channel DAC's. If we are talking 8 channel DAC's, there is no doubt the NADAC MC-8 is the best reasonably priced DAC on the market, apart from the Hapi. To go better than the NADAC, you would be looking at a $200,000 MSB DAC.

 

As always, the best approach is to listen to the products out there and make a decision based on your listening results.

 

Here's what David Robinson at Positive Feedback, who has heard - and reviewed many DACs - had to say about the NADAC and why he purchased his review unit from Merging:

 

"Product launches happen all the time in fine audio. We have well over 300 DSD DACs now, for example, new turntables and cartridges all the time, with amps, preamps, integrateds, headphones, wireless speakers, cables, accessories, music servers, NAS/hard-drive arrays, and speakers spilling forth continuously. It seems like nearly every day I get new press releases from high-end audio companies announcing new designs, or updates to older products.

 

Then again, once in a blue moon, we get something new. A design that's so different, with qualities or combinations of qualities that are so notable, that we get a bit…or a lot…of a paradigm bump. (Real paradigm shifts are rare, despite the overuse of that phrase.) There may be some innovations that really advance the state of the art, but which don't change the shape of the world. The NADAC MC-8, Merging Technologies eight-channel DSD DAC, however, does beg attention as a candidate for doing precisely that.

 

A remarkable technical achievement, it excels in so many ways, and brings enough unique innovations with it, that it stands out from the highly populated field of DSD DACs in my experience.

 

In fact, I have nothing but praise for the Merging Technologies NADAC MC-8, and have made the arrangements to purchase the review sample. It will take its place as the new reference for DSD DAC playback here at Positive Feedback.

 

If you have the budget to play in this range, there's simply no question that you need to put the NADAC at the top of your list of DSD DACs. If you can't get to a show or another site that's equipped with one to hear it for yourself, I'm going to go out on a limb and tell you that I would recommend a purchase, regardless. I'm confident that it's really that good…it's the best that I've heard in DSD and high-resolution PCM/DXD DACs to date. Period.

Run. Do not walk. Get what I'm experiencing for yourself! "

 

Impressions: The Merging Technology NADAC MC-8 DSD DAC

[bmoura]

Are you planning any upgrades that would improve the sound quality of the NADAC, rather than offering features that we don't want?

 

Merging has more features for the NADAC in development, after the NADAC Player with Roon is released in November.

 

"I also had an opportunity to chat with Dominique Brulhart, Merging's head of software engineering and NADAC product manager. Brulhart told me that while Merging's focus for NADAC right now is to release the NADAC Player units and upgrades, the product development team is already at work with future enhancements to both the home audio NADAC line and the company's pro audio products. He said "we're very busy right now on future products for NADAC and Pyramix."

 

Discoveries at Rocky Mountain Audio Fest 2016 - Positive Feedback

[bmoura]

Hi Michael. Merging touts the ability to merge four channels into one (thereby getting 2 channel output from an 8 channel DAC) as a reason why you should spend an extra $1000 for the MC-8 over the stereo version.

 

Well, the Onkyo DP-X1 DAP (link) is an $899 device that includes TWO ESS Sabre 9018S chips. For less than the cost of the difference between the stereo NADAC and the multichannel NADAC, you could buy a DAP that has two higher end (not base model) chips that offers the exact advantage that Merging are marketing.

 

And the Onkyo DP-X1 converts DSD to PCM before playback. Which helps to explain why other DAPs in that price range - like the Questyle QP1 and QP1R - offer better sound quality.

 

As for the NADAC MC-8, you get 8 Channel playback for $1,000 over the price of the Stereo model. A nice bonus that gets serious use here.

 

On the question of which DAC chip is used in a product, you also have to ask what portion of the DAC chip the audio designer is implementing in their product. Not to mention that some DACs play DSD files without a DAC chip at all - making those DAC chip comparisons a moot point.

[bmoura]

Hi Keith - Have you examined the pros and cons to Merging using this DAC chip versus a more expensive chip? To me the price has nothing to do with DAC chip selection and performance.

I think it would help to flesh out the reasons other than price.

Agreed. There is much more to the sonic quality of a DAC than the DAC chip selection. If that was the main determining factor, based on the sound quality from the NADAC, we'd be seeing a rush to replacing DAC chips with the 9008!

[bmoura]

Keith IMHO from a value perspective which I am getting the impression at least some of what your posts are about, the HAPI makes a lot more sense to me.

Merging Technologies has a discussion of NADAC vs. HAPI vs. Horus on the NADAC web site.

Interesting reading.

 

Since HAPI and Horus are pro recording products, they are available for rental from some pro audio dealers. So you can rent a HAPI or Horus (or both) and buy some training on how to use the Pyramix software for recording with these pro units if recording and archiving is among the uses you have in mind vs. playback only.

 

It is a way to compare the three DACs from Merging in addition to the comparison info on the NADAC web site.

 

https://confluence.merging.com/display/PUBLICDOC/FAQ#FAQ-WhatisthedifferencebetweenMERGING+NADACandHAPI,andwhyshouldIbuyaMERGING+NADACinsteadofHAPI?

https://confluence.merging.com/display/PUBLICDOC/FAQ#FAQ-DoesMERGING+NADACsoundbetterthanHORUSorHAPI?

[bmoura]

If I go with a Hapi/NADAC I would more than likely go with a DHT "preamp" (buffer probably more accurate) to sweeten or add some salt to taste. Not to deliberately mush up the sound, most of these preamps with modern design techniques like filament bias have noise floors in the -90 dB range with low THD, just more second dominant than what we see with conventional DAC measurements.

I wish there were more options for us when it came to mch DACs. The MSB is way too expensive and I am pretty sure there is no way to get the Emm DAC8 to work with Acourate. I'm not violating any NDA with these pictures.

As sales of Multichannel DACs and the number of Multichannel downloads (now over 800 Multichannel DSD Downloads at NativeDSD) increase, we could indeed see more Multichannel DACs. In addition to exaSound, Merging and Oppo disc players, there's always the option of linking 3 of the DACs from Mytek or Playback Designs for Multichannel DAC playback.

 

The sound of your preamp or Keith's special computer based loudspeaker crossovers may be just the ticket to "salt the sound" as you say.

 

Or you could aim for a more neutral sound to reveal what was intended on the original recording as Yarlung's Bob Attiyeh described earlier here on CA Forum in a DAC comparison discussion:

 

"Both Merging Technologies and exaSound have worked with us at Yarlung to make and monitor our recordings. We are very happy with the "sounds" from both companies, whether DSD or PCM. We don't have any of the luscious-sounding converters in our DSD recording lineup because we want our product to be as little colored as possible. We are hoping for neutral, with as little "digital signature" as possible. But listening to playback on sweeter sounding converters is great fun for us as people who enjoy music when we're listening just for pleasure.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob Attiyeh

Yarlung Records"

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/playback-designs-mpd-5-vs-emm-dac2x-vs-msb-platinum-digital-analogue-converter-iv-plus-14519/index3.html#post570334

[bmoura]

Yarlung happens to be in the process of building a new 5.0 playback system this month. For this we will be using the NADAC, and five identical speakers. I look forward to being able to report on the results soon!

When it comes to 5.0 Multichannel playback, using 5 identical speakers is the way to go. It gives you a very balanced soundfield and really lets you hear what is on the original Multichannel recording! Enjoy.

[bmoura]

8 hours ago, matthias said:

I am very curious how the upcoming Anubis compares to Hapi.

 

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-in-acoustic-music-and-location-recording/1252514-merging-anubis.html

 

Matt

 

The video that tailspn (Tom Caulfield) mentions on Gear Slutz is interesting.  

 

A behind the scenes tour of Merging Technologies - and a look at the guts of the Anubis and its Zman ethernet card!  (starting at the 5 minute mark in the video).

 

 

[bmoura]

12 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Interesting that @dbrulhart said in May 2017 that there is a good number of manufacturers who intend to implement ZMan into their DACs.

Where are these ZMan-DACs two years later?

 

Matt

 

Aurender licensed the Zman technology in early 2018 and their Zman equipped Music Server has been demonstrated with the Merging NADAC at audio shows since then.  So there is activity in that area.  

https://www.merging.com/news/press-releases/aurender-joins-ravenna-community

 

On the other hand, I'm sure that Merging's top priority is to incorporate the Zman card in their own products - like the Anubis that launches later this month on March 21 - and future Merging products for the pro and home markets.  It will be interesting to watch. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GetTdlq5x3E 

 

 

[bmoura]

6 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Ravenna is made for professional recording,

I am wondering if it sounds better than the existing solutions for "audiophiles".

 

 

 

You can test that out now with the NADAC converters (Merging+NADAC, Merging+Player) from Merging.

They are audiophile DACs that use Ravenna and Ethernet.  (The original NADAC uses Ethernet only, no USB option at all!)

https://nadac.merging.com/product/merging-nadac

[bmoura]

3 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

A comparison with optimised USB for example seems not to be possible with NADAC. The complete NADAC system is now really expensive and in the price range of the best servers with USB output.

 

Matt

 

As the newer high-end Stereo USB DACs have increased in price ($20k - $150k), the Stereo and 8 Channel editions of the NADAC and NADAC Player ($10k - $14k) are no longer among the most expensive DACs in the home market.

 

When Merging releases future editions of the NADAC, we will see if Merging plans to catch up in that department.  

 

 

 

[bmoura]

3 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

I am talking about combos with server plus DAC. Interesting that Merging use in their professional products better DAC chips than in their audiophile products.

 

Matt

 

When you combine a server with one of these more expensive high end DACs, the total price really jumps past the NADAC.

 

As for the DAC chips, Merging (and other DAC makers like Bricasti) will tell you that the real question is what follows the DAC chip vs. the chip itself. Especially true when some of the "on-chip" features are not used in the DAC design among the higher end converters.

 

In the video, Claude C. notes that there are a limited number of DAC chips & parts that support all of the formats and bit rates used by Merging.  So they are likely to use newer DAC chips in the future Merging home and pro products since the earlier parts are likely to become scarce as time goes on.

[bmoura]

11 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Merging praised the performance of the ES9028PRO in the DA8P. They would not do if it does not sound better.

 

 

When I have talked with Merging, they make the point that a large portion of the design in their converters bypass the DAC chip features.  And they tell me that is why the ESS chip used in their designs is not the determining factor in their sound. 

[bmoura]

1 minute ago, Kal Rubinson said:

True but, at the same time, there have been great improvements in DACs that are less expensive, so I do not think that their relative position has shifted much.

 

I'd agree on sound quality.  But on price, they have been topped by a number of high end DACs.

And that trend is likely to continue based on the pricing of new DACs in the home market.