Neil young announces the launch of ponomusic

[labjr]

If Neil was able to get 24-192 transfers properly done and there's some provenance, that's a great thing. Even better if he oversaw the transfers. Because he's a perfectionist.

 

Now if they give him the same crap HDtracks has been selling, it's gonna be a problem.

[labjr]

I see Sultans of Swing on one of the players. I wonder if he did a 24/12 transfer of Dire Straits? Woohoo!

[labjr]

I wonder if Neil used the Ayre QA-9 to do the digital transfers?

[labjr]

Anyone know of another portable music player with the same features for $399? I don't think the Astel and Kern has these features and it's more money?

 

More info about Ayre's contribution to the PonoPlayer.

 

1) Ayre's custom designed and implemented digital filter. It is minimum phase, with no unnatural (digital sounding) pre-ringing. All sounds made always have reflections and/or echoes after the initial sound. There is no sound in nature that has any echo or reflection before the sound, which is what conventional linear-phase digital filters do. This is one reason that digital sound has a reputation for sounding "unnatural".

 

2) All circuitry is zero-feedback. Feedback can only correct an error after it has occurred, which means that it can never correct for all errors. By using proprietary ultra linear circuitry with wide bandwidth and low output impedance, there is no need for unnatural sounding feedback.

 

3) The DAC chip used is the ESS ES9018, widely recognized in the audio and engineering community as the best sounding DAC chip available today.

 

4) The output buffer used to drive the headphones is fully discrete so that all individual parameters and circuit values and parts quality can be fully optimized for the absolute finest sound quality. The output impedance is very low so that the Pono Player will deliver perfectly flat frequency response to any headphone made.

[labjr]

Seriously? $399 is awesome for this set of features. Sure, FiiO is cheaper but … it's cheaper. Assuming Chris is correct, this Pono will have a very serious set of design specs that will put it's price far below what's out from A&K and HiFiMAN, and what's coming from Calyx -- and will be cheaper than an iPod and still have 2x the storage. Sounds like a winner to me.

 

The device is one thing, though. In this case, the software will probably be more important. Will the system introduce proprietary formats? Will it support all the digital files I already have? Will users be willing to forsake HDTracks and iTunes for PonoMusic? They'll have to for the platform to really take off.

 

ipod doesn't play hi-rez. Don't know what the heck is wrong with Apple. They should have done this years ago. Neil tried to get Steve Jobs involved. But as usual they only care about making huge profits on stripped down products. I don't believe iTunes sells hi-rez files do they? I don't know because I've never used iTunes store. I mean why would they when ipods can't play them?

[labjr]

Maybe they used MLP? Neil was at Meridian talking to Bob Stuart at some point. However, I'd think Charlie Hansen would recommend against compression since decompressing on the fly can affect sound quality. But I don't think MLP is any more efficient than FLAC.

 

I think the 1000-2000 number is a mistake or they didn't mean to use the words "high resolution" after it. Was marketing meant for MP3 people because that's mostly what they'll be playing. Audiophiles don't need to know this. They can make a quick calculation in their head. Why does it matter anyway? We know it's 128GB. That's all.

[labjr]

It should be a good sounding unit. I could use a hi-rez player for the car. Maybe we can get them on Overstock.com in a few months:)

[labjr]

I've demonstrated well mastered music to non-audiophile friends who were blown away by the difference. And they made remarks like. " Wow, it sounds like it's in the room!..What is that!" Most people are so used to lossy compressed music and old CD masters that they need a re-introduction to real music.

[labjr]

The question is were they blown away because it was well mastered or because it was high resolution?

 

 

One commented that it was definitely the dithering because he felt he could only hear 19 bits of resolution

 

Seriously, How should I know! They just liked it!

[labjr]

I heard Kickstarter Pono backers will receive Neil Young approved 24/192 versions of both Beatles and Led Zep complete catalogs for free. Anyone know if that's a rumor?

[labjr]

It's nice to see high resolution music getting broader exposure outside of audiophile web sites. If it's because of who Neil Young is, then it's great to have him as an advocate. Better for everyone who loves music.

[labjr]

I'm wondering if the Pono player is going to support non-PONO-encoded audio formats such as FLAC, ALAC, WAV, DSD64 and DSD128...

 

It uses the ESS 9018 Sabre DAC so it's capable of DSD. However, Charlie Hansen isn't exactly a DSD proponent. Neither is Neil. So I wouldn't count on it.

[labjr]

Not true. Find links on this site to articles showing Beatles analog masters were digitally transcripted at 24/192 before undergoing minor edits and fixes. That "fixed master version" was then used as a basis for the remasters, which were worked on at 24/44.1.

 

Bottom line: there are 24/192 digital masters of the Beatles albums if Apple (re the 4 parties involved) ever decide to prepare the files for release and release them in a hi-res format.

 

What would the 4 parties have to do with sample rates and using CD quality masters being used for vinyl? Total nonsense.

[labjr]

Again, it would be good if you would educate yourself on the topic before you reply. The setup at Apple is that all 4 parties (Paul, Ringo, Olivia Harrison, Yoko) have to unanimously approve any new remaster of Beatles material for release. Apparently it is extremely difficult to get unanimous approval from them on any given remaster of any given song, and some previously completed remasters have been shelved for just this reason.

 

According to reports from Apple, part of the reason the Beatles vinyl was produced from the 2009 24/44.1 basic remasters was that Apple didn't think they would manage to get approval of any new remaster for vinyl.

 

So yes, any hi-res release of the Beatles albums would require unanimous approval of the 4 parties, and apparently for each song. And by the way, 24/44.1 isn't CD quality, but something better.

 

Try to pause and think next time you want to make such a dismissive, nasty reply of something you clearly know little about.

 

Sorry but it doesn't make sense. All the production was done at 192 kHz. Why then would four parties need to agree to downsample or not? Nothing else would change but the sample rate? What does Yoko know about sample rates? Seems to me like it was a corporate decision so they could continue to resell the catalog forever.

[labjr]

Don't forget:

 

Dead Battery in photo shoot.

[labjr]

I will correct your statment that no one (or at least very few) have listended to PONO. Neil has demonstrated it to music industry executives and other artists (Bruce Springsteen, Sting, Elton John) - this is exactly what he and his team should do by building the base that can actually make it happen. The fact that you are not aware is irrelevant at this point.

 

I think this is great! I guess Neil owns the recordings and/or rights to his back catalog? I think Elton John does. Not Sure about Springsteen and Sting. Seems like it will be a problem when the artists don't own the rights to their music. Traditionally the music industry execs don't seem very open-minded. For example, ABKCO only allowing Rolling Stones catalog to be transcoded from DSD to PCM for release. Or remasters that turn out to be bogus upsampled stuff. I won't pay for stuff like that. Neil probably wouldn't sell it either. Thus, there may be a lot we'll never hear in true master quality. Hopefully, Neil is more successful than the previous efforts by others. I applaud his efforts and keep my fingers crossed that we get the good old days back again.

[labjr]

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/pono-kickstarter-campaign-open-19730/

 

I think this is going to do well. Assuming they're 192 kHz sample rate and fresh Niel approved remasters, $17.98 is a good price for albums. Now if they had high resolution holographic album covers with liner notes?

[labjr]

In the video Neil talks about how 96Khz sounds like it's still 20ft under water. And other artists tout the 192khz sound quality. Sting even seems to be lumping high resolution with CD when compared to Pono. And Sting was one of the first artists to put a full digital studio in his house back in the late 80's. So he's no beginner in the studio.

 

Thus I would think Pono will only be selling 192khz albums. Hopefully, only Neil approved newly remastered versions. If it's the same old surprise-bag smorgasbord of unpredictable "DON'T-BLAME-US-WE-ONLY-SELL-WHAT-THEY-GIVE-US" junk that HDtracks sells then Pono would quickly get a reputation. I don't think they want that.

[labjr]

Did you guys watch the video at the Ponomusic site? All the raves he got from all those musicians were from hearing PONO in his car. That must be some sound system Neil has installed in his Cadillac!

 

I'm excited--especially that he is getting people behind it and that the Pono store could be a place to buy more hi-res FLAC albums--but I am a little concerned/confused by one thing:

All those recording artists have spent a lot of time in studios--and presumably they have halfway decent systems at home--yet they raved that they have never heard anything so good as what they just heard in Neil Young's car? I am wondering--and from their voices it's not too much of a stretch--if some hi-resolution herbs were not part of the demo.

 

Again, I just have a tough time believing that not of these artists have listened to a halfway decent DAC with 24/96 files before...

 

Good musicians may not have DACs or high end systems, but they usually have an old record collection. I remember Elton John had a room with CD's on all 4 walls. And a lot of bubblegum pop stuff I would never buy. You'd think they'd be the first ones with the high end systems.

 

I think a lot of the old timers interviewed are fanatics the studio. Didn't Tom Petty oversee the remastering of unlimited 24-96 version of Damn the Torpedoes a few years ago?

 

I love how Neil drives that old Caddy. In an interview a couple years ago he spoke about how he demoed his idea in his Cadillac. I thought he was talking about a new Cadillac.

 

I have friends that drive old Cadillacs. One friend had a mint triple white Sedan Deville Brougham. I think it was the last year they made them. He used to park it across the street in a big parking lot so nobody would ding the doors. One day a dump truck jumped the curb and crushed the car.

[labjr]

Does the Beck Limited Edition model automatically upsample MP3 music to Super Hi-Rez:)

[labjr]

Chris, what's your take on the quality of the material Pono will carry? Will they be new masters that's something exclusive to Pono? Will it be the same stuff that's on other sites? To me that's gonna make the difference.

 

Traditionally, the record industry seems to have taken the least path of resistance where anything and everything is considered a master. It's obvious that they don't care. Is Neil gonna be able to change this attitude and deliver a fresh digital transfer of the best available master tape with a verified provenance from beginning to end? Will there be any liner notes?

[labjr]

Can you ask him if Pono will have exclusive remasters? And if he's personally involved with the engineers that will be doing the remastering? Will it be closer to an MFSL or Analog productions type of operation than it is a HDtracks site. Something in between. or combination of both?

[labjr]

Good questions!

 

And I too thought Chris was on his way home. Did his miss most of SXSW? I have not followed the dates.

 

I also hope Chris with learn and share about who is developing the desktop apps for Pono.

 

I think I read something about also being on a cloud. Does this mean one would have access to their music library anywhere internet is available?

[labjr]

That said, as I was browsing the FAQ…the one statement below is key for me. Apparently content will be certified. Does anyone yet know what that criteria is? Has Pono quality been defined a deeper level yet? I certainly hope there is more to it than sample rate or bit depth. Are we talking criteria that could ensure the content is mastered with quality in mind? Less compression…better dynamics? Crossing my fingers!

 

 

Same here. I just watched the CNBC segment of Neil live from Austin. IMO, he seems very particular and repeatedly stressed the importance of sound quality and bringing the listener exactly what the artist intended. To me, that means some sort of system of checks in place to guarantee quality.

[labjr]

Neil Young on MP3

 

"...like getting slammed in the face with ice cubes.."

 

LOL hahaha!