Pioneer N50 Airplay, Airport Express

[eyeshigher]

First Post, Not sure if this is the correct directory.

 

I have been using the N50 for iTunes, either via airplay or by plugging in iPhone 5s via lighting into front usb socket, when not wanting to use the CD player.

Today I downloaded an app 'Audio Xciter' for the iPhone which I believe is a DSP engine. It has transformed the N50 and works via airplay and lighting cable into the N50. I am not normally a fan of DSP but it is a big difference-opened everything up.

 

This should also work with airport express.

[mayhem13]

Just an FYI, Airplay converts everything to 16/48khz as part of the protocol so you're native redbook CD 16/44.1 isn't bit perfect......if that matters to you.

 

You can also use the Music app on the phone to gain access to your iTunes library by selecting it within the app. I 'believe' when the phone is tethered to the N50, its native resolution up to 24/96 if you want to try it. Tap the More tab on the lower right and your iTunes library should come up.

[Cebolla]

Just an FYI, Airplay converts everything to 16/48khz as part of the protocol so you're native redbook CD 16/44.1 isn't bit perfect......if that matters to you.

I don't think that's correct, as AirPlay streams ALAC at a fixed 16/44.1kHz, so will normally be ok for use with redbook CD. The Pioneer N-50 fully supports AirPlay streaming.

 

You are probably confusing this with the latest versions of the Apple TV, which does resample all inputs to 16/48kHz, which of course is then downsampled and interpolated to 16/44.1kHz when using it for AirPlay streaming purposes.

 

 

 

You can also use the Music app on the phone to gain access to your iTunes library by selecting it within the app. I 'believe' when the phone is tethered to the N50, its native resolution up to 24/96 if you want to try it. Tap the More tab on the lower right and your iTunes library should come up.

The Pioneer N-50 will support all standard resolutions up to 24/192kHz via its async USB, optical & coax DAC inputs (with the exception of 24/176.4kHz via async USB due to an as yet unresolved issue with its async USB hardware & firmware).

 

Its DAC's native resolution is actually 32/192kHz (there is an optional 'Hi-bit 32 mode' DAC processing setting to upsample the input to the full 32 bit depth).

[eyeshigher]

I believe,

On the N50 along with all airplay devices, files are streamed in ALAC, if files on iPhone or from iTunes are already in ALAC format they are not reconverted (i.e. bit rate). Files on iPhone can be streamed digitally through the lighting connector to the front USB port (wired connection) on the N50 then files are converted using the N50's dac.

 

The app has a trail version, probably best to try it (although 5 minutes). It was night and day on my system. I think all DSP of the app is done on the iPhone/iPad then streamed as ALAC, no up conversion and stay at 16/44

 

All up conversion on the N50 was turned off and all files were already ALAC.

 

I have since tried app via iPhone streaming to Mac mini using airplay and worked very well-same difference.

[mayhem13]

I don't think that's correct, as AirPlay streams ALAC at a fixed 16/44.1kHz, so will normally be ok for use with redbook CD. The Pioneer N-50 fully supports AirPlay streaming.

 

You are probably confusing this with the latest versions of the Apple TV, which does resample all inputs to 16/48kHz, which of course is then downsampled and interpolated to 16/44.1kHz when using it for AirPlay streaming purposes.

 

 

 

The Pioneer N-50 will support all standard resolutions up to 24/192kHz via its async USB, optical & coax DAC inputs (with the exception of 24/176.4kHz via async USB due to an as yet unresolved issue with its async USB hardware & firmware).

 

Its DAC's native resolution is actually 32/192kHz (there is an optional 'Hi-bit 32 mode' DAC processing setting to upsample the input to the full 32 bit depth).

 

Nope.....Airplay protocol is 16/48 no matter the client device. AirTunes, the old protocol still in place with the Airport Express is 16/44.1. The N-50 can accept streams at differing rates, just not through Airplay. That's why I mentioned the connected device and the back door stream through the Music app, not remote.

[Cebolla]

I've not tested a standard AirPlay stream myself, but there's overwhelming evidence 'out there' that the AirTunes part of the protocol stack, as currently used by Apple approved devices/hardware (eg even the chips supplied by Apple & used in the N-50), streams at 16/44.1 (no matter the client or even the source device) and not at 16/48, eg Wikipedia (see Protocols section):

AirPlay - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also plenty of similar 'confirmation' mentioning bit perfect AirPlay streaming of redbook CD resolution by iTunes as a source and the Airport Express as a streamer, both of which are limited to 16/44.1 and the related 'complaints' of the current Apple TV upsampling its streaming of AirPlay to 16/48 at its output.

 

I would certainly be interested to know where you've gotten your info from about AirPlay streaming at 16/48. Did it mention using Apple approved hardware?

 

Can anyone else confirm this?

[phatoldsun]

I've not tested a standard AirPlay stream myself, but there's overwhelming evidence 'out there' that the AirTunes part of the protocol stack, as currently used by Apple approved devices/hardware (eg even the chips supplied by Apple & used in the N-50), streams at 16/44.1 (no matter the client or even the source device) and not at 16/48, eg Wikipedia (see Protocols section):

AirPlay - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also plenty of similar 'confirmation' mentioning bit perfect AirPlay streaming of redbook CD resolution by iTunes as a source and the Airport Express as a streamer, both of which are limited to 16/44.1 and the related 'complaints' of the current Apple TV upsampling its streaming of AirPlay to 16/48 at its output.

 

I would certainly be interested to know where you've gotten your info from about AirPlay streaming at 16/48. Did it mention using Apple approved hardware?

 

Can anyone else confirm this?

16/44 is my understanding. Mostly based on this (with measurements):Am I Experienced?: Possibility for Airplay/AirTunes to Airport Express with Hi-Res Audio

Excerpt:iTunes ALWAYS down-sampling the audio file to 16/44.1k, no matter the remote end is an AE or Apple TV. In other words, iTune was hard-coded to down-sampling to 16/44.1k.........

[mayhem13]

I've not tested a standard AirPlay stream myself, but there's overwhelming evidence 'out there' that the AirTunes part of the protocol stack, as currently used by Apple approved devices/hardware (eg even the chips supplied by Apple & used in the N-50), streams at 16/44.1 (no matter the client or even the source device) and not at 16/48, eg Wikipedia (see Protocols section):

AirPlay - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also plenty of similar 'confirmation' mentioning bit perfect AirPlay streaming of redbook CD resolution by iTunes as a source and the Airport Express as a streamer, both of which are limited to 16/44.1 and the related 'complaints' of the current Apple TV upsampling its streaming of AirPlay to 16/48 at its output.

 

I would certainly be interested to know where you've gotten your info from about AirPlay streaming at 16/48. Did it mention using Apple approved hardware?

 

Can anyone else confirm this?

 

The code for the protocols is cracked and in the public domain and being used by some in open source projects....check it out.

 

Plug any Airplay device's digital output into a DAC that displays bitrate....guess what....16/48 accross the board except for the Airport Express....again....which uses AirTunes from the host computer. Two different services.

[mayhem13]

16/44 is my understanding. Mostly based on this (with measurements):Am I Experienced?: Possibility for Airplay/AirTunes to Airport Express with Hi-Res Audio

Excerpt:iTunes ALWAYS down-sampling the audio file to 16/44.1k, no matter the remote end is an AE or Apple TV. In other words, iTune was hard-coded to down-sampling to 16/44.1k.........

 

....and then the 'Air play' client converts to 16/48..........check his other blogs. He tried writing his own lines of code and the steam stopped after a few seconds

[phatoldsun]

The code for the protocols is cracked and in the public domain and being used by some in open source projects....check it out.

 

Plug any Airplay device's digital output into a DAC that displays bitrate....guess what....16/48 accross the board except for the Airport Express....again....which uses AirTunes from the host computer. Two different services.

 

My 1st gen Apple TV outputs 44/16. My Mac as a receiving Airport client outputs 44/16.

[phatoldsun]

....and then the 'Air play' client converts to 16/48..........check his other blogs. He tried writing his own lines of code and the steam stopped after a few seconds

 

Right, like an Apple TV 2 converts to 48/16. That's what the link says. The hardware converts. The topic was the Airplay protocol and my understanding is that is 44/16. Please post something that shows otherwise.

[mayhem13]

My 1st gen Apple TV outputs 44/16. My Mac as a receiving Airport client outputs 44/16.

 

.....and your first gen ATV was an AirTunes device.....and your a Mac as a client is using AirTunes as well. Check the service instruction.

[Cebolla]

The code for the protocols is cracked and in the public domain and being used by some in open source projects....check it out.

 

Plug any Airplay device's digital output into a DAC that displays bitrate....guess what....16/48 accross the board except for the Airport Express....again....which uses AirTunes from the host computer. Two different services.

Ok Mahem13,

 

Sorry for revising a relatively old thread, but I have just seen confirmation from a legitimate AirPlay supporting device manufacturer, concerning its audio file streaming resolution.

 

Wang Xuanqian from Auralic says that their Aries renderer uses AirPlay which is fixed to stream ALAC at 16/44.1, not 16/48! See (post 1424):

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/auralic-aries-universal-plug-dplay-renderer-double-direct-stream-digital-over-wi-fi-18798/index57.html#post337072

 

John