New Berkeley DAC? This article implies as much but ... ?

[ted_b]

I posted about this over on WB, and initially thought it to be a weird stance. But after sleeping on it...their stance is quite transparent and refreshing. I'm not sure where they get off completely discounting the 1-bit guys, but oh well. And like Erik, I too have had great luck lately doing DSD-to-PCM conversion for those DACs that have PCM sweetspots.

 

The rumor is that Berkeley's software is an included copy of JRiver. However, JRIver currently only does DSD-to-PCM offline into 24/352.8K.

[ted_b]

Thanks for posting. Those guys are no joke! Watching this closely...

 

Looks like they are still keeping USB external.

 

I'd just rock this thing with the Schiit Loki for DSD. Done.

 

Why do you assume the Loki is a solution.

1) it is AKM and part of the 99%

2) how do you plan to manage two USB streams, two USB drivers? The Schiit "passthru" approach is ill-conceived IMHO. No one would want to constantly change drivers in their player software just to listen to a new format playlist, especially when most players/audio stacks need to see the DAC first (i.e may need to power off server to refresh the DAC driver)? To my stupid brain the best way is to have two servers and two inputs at the preamp (which means not going through an additional "passthru" connection). And a remote input capability. Argh, seems a lot of work.

 

Sorry for the hijack. Back on topic:

I am going to ask some DAC mfg'ers like Michal from Mytek to chime in. Seems he was adamant that multi-bit DSD is not at all the same (i.e it's much better) as simply converting to 24/176k PCM. I could be wrong.

[ted_b]

I'm not speaking for Berkeley Audio Design in any way, but I assure you they understand this stuff very well. Brilliant is an appropriate description for Michael “Pflash” Pflaumer.

 

Chris, can you have them come on and answer some questions? We are all wondering why multibit SDM is being characterized as multibit PCM (i.e Sonoma has never been called anything but "pure DSD' yet it's roughly 8 bit 2.6Mhz; Mytek is 4-5 bit 2.6mhz, etc..those ain't 24/176k PCM.)? There seems to be a truth in there somewhere, but by Berkeley's standards (which as I said are refreshingly transparent, but bold) the Sonoma is PCM and part of the 99%.

[ted_b]

Ted, JRiver defaults to the 352.8k sampling frequency when doing DSD to PCM offline conversion, but it does allow you to select a lower frequency like 176.4k as detailed in the applicable document by Bel Canto Design.

 

Bill,

I was only commenting about offline processing; otherwise if you do on-the-fly aren't you possibly risking the same unnecessary noise and cpu resources (varies with server horsepower, of course) too near the signal path, almost the exact reason Berkeley wants it removed from their own signal path.

[ted_b]

What is the issue if there is good isolation from the computer?

 

Dunno, ask Berkeley. All i was saying is that if you have a small cpu (less than Zuma, Alix, etc) then on the fly conversion can make your computer work too hard and could cause hiccups, etc (documented reality; has happened to me in small servers). And how is that better than having the DAC do the work? If heavy lifting is the issue (Berkely's issue, not mine) then why not do it offline.

[ted_b]

Yes, Miska, your NAA approach is great. Most of us know that. But I was speaking to... if you are a JRiver user and want to do on-the-fly conversions of DSD to 24/352.8k on an Atom-based processor, good luck.

[ted_b]

Ted, with all due respect I wish to clarify the point of my last post. You previously stated that "JRIver currently only does DSD-to-PCM offline into 24/352.8K", and I was just clarifying that their offline process does allow you to output 176.4k as recommended by Berkeley and Bel Canto. I didn't mention anything involving real time processing, but I agree with what you have stated in that respect.

 

I'm sorry, Bill. You are right. It wasn't always that way, an I seldom do DSD to PCM, so I was not updated. My bad.

[ted_b]

Chris asked me to not hijack this thread, so I started another one about multibit (PCM vs SDM). In it I have a response from Michal Jurewicz (Mytek founder/designer) about Berkeley's news release. He readily admits that there is no way Keith Johnson or Michale Pflaumer wrote that release.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/multibit-dsd-debate-18437/#post276360

[ted_b]

Chris- How you would use a word clock in computer audio?

 

I guess you would have an audio card with a word clock input and find playback software that uses the input. I'm not aware of any that does that outside the professional realm. Just connecting the word clock to the DAC alone would not do much good unless the DAC had a really poor clock, correct?

 

Additional cabling aside (good point Barrows) a word clock input is nice when you already own a clock like an Antelope Atomic, etc...or when you want to improve the clocking down the road. Yes, theoretically the best bet is tight asynch integration, but the ability to mix and match is always a feature that shouldn't be overlooked. Mytek, Antelope and others have had word clock inputs for quite some time. I loved the fact that my Mytek stack (3 stereo dacs for multichannel) had clock inputs and outputs so I could ensure a good synch among the three DACs for stable multichannel 5.1 DSD playback, for example.

[ted_b]

Thanks for posting the Grimm pdf Adam. I hope your post puts to rest all the nonsense regarding atomic clocks and audio. Long term accuracy has nothing to do with audio performance.

Adam and Barrows, I never said atomic is required. I simply said that it is a nice feature to have word clock inputs and outputs on DACs, especially if you own one already (I used Antelope simply as an example and upset you two) or would like to sync dacs for multichannel (like I do, and I'm not even close to a pro).

 

BTW, if indeed a $30 clock performs the needed function as well as a $1400 one, then of course the $30 clock is the one to use for the word clock input, assuming it is better than the included one. The fact that Antelope sells any of their more expensive ones to the pro market is indeed a wonder of the world, then. ?

[ted_b]

Yep, my ExaSound E28 review said as much (multichannel in one dedicated box is very nice) and now I own one.

 

Thanks for the feedback on clocks. I take you comments to mean that although every DAC (in this example) is made to a price point, and creating logical upgrade paths for such things as external power supplies might make sense as a field upgrade capability......but cutting costs on a clock and later adding via cabling is not necessarily a good upgrade path (unless synching to other dacs, a practice not common amongst consumers). Makes sense, especially on hi-end cost no object models like this Berkeley.

[ted_b]

Yes, they were having an issue with casework manufacturing but are back on track, according to a dear reviewer friend who is on the early list.

[ted_b]

SWEEET! I like the look of of it, very retro-futuristic. Look alike no USB built in and that means probably no DSD. But who knows?

 

Paul

 

No DSD. Don't you remember the fuss that was made when they first intro'd the DAC spec, and told everyone to downsample/convert their DSD to 24/176k offline? It makes sense when you are not doing DSD (why ask the DAC to to that heavy lifting) but one press release was vaguely worded as if that is how they are DSD-capable. No big deal.

 

I am anxious for our fearless leader to review this beast.

 

Edit: I see Chris beat me to it.

[ted_b]

I would think PCM may well be awe inspiring...but for this coin I am disappointed USB requires another investment.

 

By the way, this will make the new google database we are working on, since the DSD one seems to be no longer about unique product releases. The Berkeley Reference will find a founders location on the new "Database of stuff NOT supporting DSD". Very small list of new products.

[ted_b]

Francisco,

Thanks for that update. A few things:

* could you post some pictures. You mention you "think 2 SPDIF inputs are present". Pictures would tell us a lot.

* I would wait at least 48 hours for the digital clocks to settle in, let alone the breaking in of the likely substantial analog parts and power supplies. It's great news that this unit is already providing great music cold out of the box.

* I realize English is possibly not your first language (which I applaud cuz I could not even send an emergency text in any other language but English), but readability would be improved if you broke up your feedback into a couple paragraphs.

 

Thx again...