Wyred 4 Sound Dac2SE Upgrade Revisited & Findings -- The Best Decision Unequivocally!

[ksalno]

Supposed to be shipping end of the week. Dying to get the system up and running again!

+1

[ksalno]

I got an email yesterday asking if I want the femto clock upgrade, so I know they are working on it.

[ksalno]

Thanks, Tony. I didn't spend a lot of time last night trying to figure out why the i2s wasn't playing properly. The result I got was the left channel only playing and that was incredibly noisy. I am sure it is some configuration issue. I went to the usb rather quickly because I wanted to hear music. I will spend more time this weekend and figure out the issue.

 

Please let us know what you discover. My upgraded DAC2v2SE shipped today, so expecting by the middle of next week. I have an SU-1 and Hydra-Z both with external PS ready and waiting. Hopefully, I can get at least one of them to work :-)

 

BTW, props to W4S for offering this upgrade. I have two other DACs that were replaced by essential the same box with the 9038 chip and neither offered an upgrade. Only a trade-in at less than half the cost of a new model.

[ksalno]

My upgraded DAC2v2 is supposed to arrive today. I will let it burn-in for 24 hours (I'm going to a live concert tonight anyway) and will then test DSD with both the SU-1 and the Hydra-Z via i2s to see what the results are and report back.

 

As for MQA, I think "wait and see" is what most of the DAC providers are saying, and it makes total sense given the uncertainty, scarcity of content, and the shifting direction of MQA Ltd.

 

Karl

[ksalno]

Thanks for the tip Franatic. I also have the Plexir PS for my SU-1. I also have the outboard PS for the Hydra-Z, so it will be an apples to apples comparison. I will try PCM and report back.

[ksalno]

I also have the Plixir Elite and the Platinum Starlight 7 HDMI shorty cable. I also have a variety of AQ and other quality HDMI cables to play with but all of them are at least 1M.

[ksalno]

Just received my upgraded DAC2v2SE tonight. I still have it burning in but I can comment on a couple things mentioned on this forum. I'm using JRMC 22 running on an AO optimized Win10 SOtM sMS-1000SQ with USB out. I tried these combos:

 

1. USB direct to DAC2 - works fine in all modes using the W4S ASIO driver
2. USB to Hydra-Z with i2s to DAC2 - can't get the AudioByte driver to work at all, so unable to test this combo
3. USB to Singxer SU-1 with i2s to DAC2 - as reported, DSD works fine up to and including 256 (4X), PCM results in noise
4. Roon Server running on Sonic Transporter over wired network to SOtM sMS-200 connected to the Singxer SU-1 streams all DSD up to 256 with no problem

I haven't had a chance to try Roon via microRendu yet. Will give that a shot tomorrow night. 

[ksalno]

On 3/24/2017 at 0:56 AM, ksalno said:

Just received my upgraded DAC2v2SE tonight. I still have it burning in but I can comment on a couple things mentioned on this forum. I'm using JRMC 22 running on an AO optimized Win10 SOtM sMS-1000SQ with USB out. I tried these combos:

 

1. USB direct to DAC2 - works fine in all modes using the W4S ASIO driver
2. USB to Hydra-Z with i2s to DAC2 - can't get the AudioByte driver to work at all, so unable to test this combo
3. USB to Singxer SU-1 with i2s to DAC2 - as reported, DSD works fine up to and including 256 (4X), PCM results in noise
4. Roon Server running on Sonic Transporter over wired network to SOtM sMS-200 connected to the Singxer SU-1 streams all DSD up to 256 with no problem

I haven't had a chance to try Roon via microRendu yet. Will give that a shot tomorrow night. 

 

I got the Hyrda Z working with Mac and Win 10 this weekend and it plays both PCM and DSD just fine through the W4S DAC2v2SE, I had to use native DSD streaming (DoP disabled) to stream 256 (4X) but other than that there are no issues with DSD through the Hydra. It also plays all resolutions of PCM without issue, except for some 24/352.8 recordings I have. These played but there are frequent drop-outs. They play fine over USB into the DAC, so I assume this is some issue with the Hydra.

 

For those with issues with the microRendu, maybe you want to try the SOtM sMS-200 as an endpoint. Mine streams DSD up to 256 through a SU-1 with no issues.

[ksalno]

For those of us who have a Singxer, can you share the type and value of capacitor that you used to correct the problem so that we can apply this fix?

[ksalno]

Thanks for the values. Any particular type of dielectric? 

[ksalno]

Caps ordered and should have them next week. Hopefully, I can figure out from W4S pictures where to solder it in.

 

Karl

[ksalno]

Ideally, Singxter would issue a fix. However, in lieu of that, I agree more specifics on the capacitor and the pin outs would be appreciated. I ordered a couple different ceramic caps from Mouser but they clearly aren't the right ones, as they were so tiny, I couldn't even see them with 2x magnifying glasses on. No way I could solder them. Can W4S provide a link to the right capacitor and some additional directions for the DIYer?

[ksalno]

33 minutes ago, Franatic said:

I just saw this thread over on Head-Fi. SuperDad is aware of the DSD phase issue. I am confused as to firmware status and need to investigate more.

Andrea, if you get info from Singxer, let me know.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/839330/singxer-su-1-owners/165

I read through that thread. My understanding is that the problem being discussed there is that the right and left channel are swapped on the i2s output from the Singxer going into the DAC2 i2s input. I suppose this is another result of there being no "standard" for i2s as a device to device interconnect. To fix this problem, Singxer has issued a new firmware. So there are two version of firmware and you have to try them both to see which one is right for your DAC. I'll need to do some testing today to see if this is even a problem with the DAC2 and, if it is, which of the two firmware correct it. I will post back my findings. As for the signals coming from the SU-1 being out of phase, I don't think swapping the R and L channels will fix that. 

[ksalno]

Did some more investigation this morning. First, the PS Audio DSD DAC works fine with the SU-1 with all switches off, firmware 2.02, and the latest Windows USB driver. DSD and PCM all resolutions without problem. No phase issues either. It doesn't support Native DSD but that is probably an issue with the PS Audio DAC and DoP works fine, therefore not really an issue. One thing I did discover is that the HDMI cable length really matters. I use a WW Platinum Starlight 0.3m from the SU-1 to the DAC. When I tested the PS Audio DAC I needed a longer cable so I grabbed a 1m AQ Cinnamon cable from my box. It worked for PCM but wouldn't pass DSD. I re-positioned the SU-1 so I could use the WW 0.3m cable and problem solved.

 

So there is clearly an incompatibility between the SU-1 and the W4S DAC2. As there is no "standard" for i2s each side is pointing the finger at the other. I'm working through Tim at Kitsune, where I bought my SU-1 and their PliXir PS upgrade, and have sent him all the information regarding the capacitor values and Frantic's picture of how it is connected. Tim is at an audio show this weekend, so I don't expect to hear anything back until next week. 

[ksalno]

4 hours ago, Ienag said:

It could be also useful if someone could report the iussue also to Kitsune to exhort Singxer to provide a solution.

I have done it with Shentzenaudio because I've bought my SU-1 by them.

Hoping something will happen....

As I mentioned in my previous post, I've already provided Kitsune with all of the details, including pictures. Tim is supposed to be communicating directly with the factory, so we'll have to wait to see what the response is. I know they are at a SoCal hifi show this weekend, so I don't expect to hear anything until Mon-Tue at the earliest.

[ksalno]

Thanks, Fran, you made a lot more progress than Kitstune, which is the US distributor. I sent them all of the info from this forum including pictures but they say they have not heard anything from Shenzhen Audio. I appreciate everything you've done. I was getting ready to send my SU-1 to W4S for the cap mod but I think I will hold off until Leter finishes his testing.

[ksalno]

3 hours ago, Wizzer said:

On a slightly different topic , I have a 2v2SE and wonder if anyone here have used the Wyred4sound Dac with a PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport ?

I'm having an issue with no signal through the 12s connection however the other outputs on the PWTransport work flawlessly with the 2v2SE .

 

For those whom are currently using this combination or have once paired these components in the past have you experienced any issues with the 12s HDMI connections with either component ?

Is the issue with all formats or just DSD?

[ksalno]

2 hours ago, Wizzer said:

Cd playback ,.I haven't tried anything else .

I'd guess it's a pin-out incompatibility between the PWT and the DAC2V2SE. From looking into the issues with the Singxer I know they have one configuration for the PS Audio DAC and a different pin-out (using switches) for other DACs. You'd have to try to get pin specs from each vendor to confirm but that's my guess. 

 

 

[ksalno]

I'm not sure anyone can be blamed given the lack of any standards for using I2S between components. Remember, I2S was originally intended for internal connections within a device controlled by a single designer and manufacturer. There are no agreed standards for the pin configuration for using I2S between devices from different manufacturers. However, given the small number of DAC manufacturers with I2S inputs and the limited number of source devices with I2S output, it would seem to be in everyone's best interest, especially the customers, for them to get together and agree on a standard amongst themselves. 

[ksalno]

2 hours ago, Franatic said:

I have not heard from any other i2s users that it is working with their DACs without issues. It seems Singxer SU-1 users may be the first to try it. If this is wrong I hope others chime in. 

Actually, I have been happily using a Hydra Z with the W4S with both PCM and DSD without any issues. So the issue is definitely one of compatibility. Given the lack of I2S standards, it's hard to assign blame to either side. I just wish they would get together and resolve it.

[ksalno]

7 hours ago, coot said:

The 10th Anniversary DAC is an improvement over the DAC2 DSDse I traded in. Better in every way, but should be for a $2k upgrade! 

 

Is there an upgrade or trade-in path for DAC2 DSDse owners from W4S?

[ksalno]

15 minutes ago, rah50 said:

Hi Dom:

 

An alternative to the ultraDigital is the Singxer SU-1 which may be more available to you. I only know I can highly recommend the improvement I got going from usb/DOP/DSD128 to I2S/native/DSD256. Either of these solutions would be an add-on down stream from your excellent SOtM gear, so would probably be an improvement. Only way to know is for you to try one of them out.

 

Bob

Unless Singxer has added a capacitor to their i2S output, it isn't compatible with the W4S DAC. I have one, I know from experience. 

[ksalno]

I am successfully using the AudioByte HydraZ via i2S and my DAC2SE 

[ksalno]

I have no experience with the Linux endpoint you are using but I can tell you that the Sonare UltraDigital works fine with USB fed from SoTM 200Ultra endpoint and feeding a PS Audio DS DAC via i2S. So, whoever said it was designed only to work with Sonore products clearly is wrong.

[ksalno]

Supported by Sonore or not, I can tell you it works. I have this exact configuration in my home. I have no idea whether SoTM uses a Linux distribution or not, but I suppose they do, since their devices do not require any type of driver install for USB.