HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

Jud · August 11, 2016

Thanks Miska. I managed to get it running by switching to ASDM7, where it was stable even at DSD256. However, due to the board or my setup, I've got what I think is a ground noise problem. (See http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/grok-linux-help-me-make-naa-cute-little-board-29427/#post571113). Still, I consider the experiment a success as "proof of concept," and can hear good reproduction through the noise.

Turns out it's likely not ground noise. At another member's suggestion (thanks, lmitche!), I ran the BBGW from a cell phone charger battery, so the only physical BBGW connection to the rest of the system was USB out to a Regen connected to the iFi. Still got the noise. I'm thinking it may be the activity of the wireless receiver; wondering if the board's provision for USB over Ethernet (even though it wasn't being used at the time) may mean there is a connection between the wifi and USB sections of the board.

Jud · August 12, 2016

I'll try getting rid of some services on the BBGW, and meanwhile I have an old BeagleBoard xM I dug out of the closet that I'll set up with wired Ethernet and see if it does any better.

Looking around at some other stuff to try, any advantage/disadvantage for NAA purposes between Cubox-i and Cubox-i4Pro?

Jud · August 12, 2016

Help Please
I am trying to install HQPlayer NAA onto a NanoPi Neo

I have installed the Armbian distro

Downloaded and installed https://www.signalyst.eu/bins/naa/linux/stretch/networkaudiod_3.4.0-32_armhf.deb

The installation runs and a message comes up saying "configuring networkaudiod"

The end user license says "Click I agree" but no Iagee , or cancel , button is evident.

Try pressing the Tab key to see if anything is highlighted, or Enter to see if that works to accept.

Jud · August 12, 2016

I think the Cubox-i2 will handle NAA duties just fine [emoji6]

I noticed a couple of things:

- I believe Miska has an -i4Pro, but don't know if that necessarily means he thinks it's any better for NAA duties.

- Cubox has a quad-core model called the CuboxTV that can be had for $10 more than the -i2. Would the quad-core have any advantage over the -i2 for NAA purposes, or would the extra stuff built into the board possibly make it noisier/worse for that purpose? Or are they pretty much the same?

Jud · August 12, 2016

The NAA is a clock domain crossing FIFO buffer -- which means that it takes in a TCP/IP stream, buffers and outputs to an ALSA device -- often a USB device. So the hardware and OS have an Ethernet driver onto which the TCP/IP stack is layered. The networkaudiod reads from this and sends bits to the ALSA stack which has its own device drivers. That's pretty much it (except for control functions). I am surmising this and Miska is of course free to correct any of my assumptions with the facts

In any case no need for high powered processing! I think any of the above will work and generally the simpler the better. There will be SQ effects from the hardware designs themselves so no rule that all tiny low powered and cheap boards will sound good but also no rule that they won't.

What I've seen in further research that may be the decider is that for $10 more the CuboxTV has nearly 5 times faster nominal Ethernet capability. (GigE stuff but limited to 467mbps nominal throughput by onboard message bus for -TV, vs 10/100 E for -i2.) For 10 bucks I like the idea of a much bigger margin before the little box's network throughput becomes a factor for, say, DSD512.

On the other hand, all this could evaporate if I hook up the BeagleBoardxM and just get music, no noise.

Jud · August 12, 2016

This is the device I am waiting to be released: https://www.solid-run.com/product/clearfog-base/

Could consider replacing on board switching chip with 3v3 and 1v8 linear, as well as upgraded caps but has that built in SFP module for a very attractive price.

Room treatments for headphone users

Pretty amazing it has an SSD on board for that price. Couple of questions I'm curious about:

- Wonder if the opto-electronic conversion of the SFP could be a noise source. (Guess I'd use regular Ethernet, then.)

- Wonder what the availability of Linux distros would be for this (i.e., how soon could I install Debian Stretch and make an NAA out of it? ).

- What components would be needed to connect the SFP to a copper Ethernet router, and how much would they cost?

Jud · August 12, 2016

This is the device I am waiting to be released: https://www.solid-run.com/product/clearfog-base/

Could consider replacing on board switching chip with 3v3 and 1v8 linear, as well as upgraded caps but has that built in SFP module for a very attractive price.

Room treatments for headphone users

Interesting, especially with the SFP!

I'm seeing that the SoM on the ClearFog is supported by Linux kernel versions 3.x, but Stretch (required by Miska's networkaudiod for Debian) uses 4.5 and 4.6 kernel versions. So unless (1) the ClearFog is updated to work with 4.x kernel versions, or (2) Miska makes an image for the ClearFog, it wouldn't immediately be suitable as an NAA. I'm sure it would work for lots of other fun stuff, though.

Jud · August 12, 2016

Jud,
To answer the only question to Jabbr that I am capable of answering, an FMC (fiber to copper) cost about $25 and then replace the wall wart with something cleaner (I use Anker battery).

https://www.amazon.com/MC220L-Converter-1000Mbps-supporting-mountable/dp/B003CFATL0/ref=sr_1_1?srs=2530652011&ie=UTF8&qid=1471012163&sr=8-1&keywords=mc220l

I'd also want an optical Ethernet cable then, right?

Jud · August 12, 2016

Yes, they are cheap.
LC/LC Multimode OM3 Fiber Patch Cable

You'll also need a couple SFPs, as the board looks to simply have the SFP receptacle (like the FMC).

Genuine Cisco SFP 10g SR Transceiver Module | eBay

Sorry to get down in the weeds (can't help myself): Any reputed advantage to single mode?

Jud · August 12, 2016

Note sure if this matters in practice but here is a nice definition of multimode:

Multimode fiber optic cable has a large diametral core that allows multiple modes of light to propagate. Because of this, the number of light reflections created as the light passes through the core increases, creating the ability for more data to pass through at a given time. Because of the high dispersion and attenuation rate with this type of fiber, the quality of the signal is reduced over long distances. This application is typically used for short distance, data and audio/video applications in LANs. RF broadband signals, such as what cable companies commonly use, cannot be transmitted over multimode fiber.

Apparently multimode will not work reliably with 10G Ethernet when that comes in, so if not wanting to re-buy equipment to work with those computers, single mode would be the "future proof" purchase.

Jud · August 12, 2016

Looks like there is a Debian distro for the Armada 38x ... I plan on using that and loading NAA ...

I could well be wrong, but it didn't look to me like the Debian distro for the Armada (kernel version 3.x) would be compatible with Debian Stretch (kernel version 4.6), which Miska's network audio daemon requires.

Jud · August 12, 2016

I don't think it is at least any worse than standard Ethernet. And you get full optical isolation.

For copper Ethernet links to critical places I configure ports to use 802.3az to lower the used transmit power.

Best is to use a switch with SFP ports. This allows you to pick a transceiver module best suited for your use case and cabling.

My 24-port HP smart switch has two SFP ports.

Thanks Miska, very good information.

It turns out the BeagleBoard xM I pulled out of a closet is putting out much less noise than the BBGW. There is a trace of noise left; I am hoping an adapter that lets me run the BBXM from a battery and a network isolator I have coming in the next week will get rid of this last trace. If not, well, there's the Cubox.

Jud · August 13, 2016

What kind of DAC are you using? I've been using BB White/Black and xM without any problems...

Hi Miska - iFi micro-iDSD. I don't think this is the problem. My guess is the remaining noise is ground noise. Today I received the network isolator and put it into the downstairs system, not using the NAA, and my wife immediately said "I don't know what you did, but it sounds really good." (And it does. )

I want to wait until the adapter comes and I can run the BBXM from a battery before trying it again. I'm fairly sure that will clear it up.

Jud · August 13, 2016

I don't know how you could have ground noise with ethernet, unless you are using shielded cable. Because all the signals go through transformers. That's one of the key points with NAA.

For ethernet, the transformer isolation is necessary because otherwise grounding and related noise in large office buildings would become nightmare and real danger for the equipment (think about kilometers of CAT5/CAT6 cabling around the building).

But you could look for alternate routes from the other end. Is there a ground link from the PSU - BBB - USB - DAC - audio gear? Are there one or more mains connections with earth pin?

One problematic example case from past:

- computer has 3-pin mains connection

- DAC is not isolated so ground goes through

- audio system is floating, so all mains connections are 2-pin

- TV is connected to the audio system through HDMI

- Cable-TV coaxial cable has earth connection through the shield (TV internally connects this to a common ground that also goes to the HDMI connector)

Now the link was ready and lot of hum/noise. Problem was solved by putting a ground-breaker to the cable-TV coaxial cable... Cost - 10€.

I am supposing the ground noise with the NAA is from the PSU, which is why I'm waiting for the adapter that will allow me to use the battery.

Jud · August 14, 2016

Sorry if you've said this, but I can't see it in the thread: what sort of network isolator, and where in the system?

Hi Craig. This is *not* (so far) with the NAA in the system. It's a Baaske Medical network isolator, and the configuration is:

eero router -> Blue Jeans cat6a -> Baaske isolator -> Blue Jeans cat6a -> MacBook Pro Ethernet input

Jud · August 17, 2016

Can't win for losing, it seems. I've got the BBXM hooked up to Ethernet with the Baaske isolator inline, and powered from the battery. I can no longer hear noise so far as I can tell, but I say "so far as I can tell" because networkaudiod now does this in a few seconds after I start the music:

● networkaudiod.service - Network Audio Adapter daemon

Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/networkaudiod.service; enabled; vendor pr

eset: enabled)

Active: active (running) since Wed 2016-08-17 11:45:01 EDT; 5min a

go

Main PID: 4646 (networkaudiod)

CGroup: /system.slice/networkaudiod.service

└─4646 /usr/sbin/networkaudiod