HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

[Miska]

Looks like the network is not properly up at NAA side... Maybe default route is missing?

 

Usually this error happens when joining multicast groups fails.

 

[Miska]

27 minutes ago, luisma said:

And is it normal HQPe remains showing the previous allo Bridge NAA even though is disconnected? 

 

It shows what ever is "Current" because what is being used at the moment cannot be detected. So the currently selected device is just shown from the configuration file. What ever else than "Current" is actually detected on the network. That is lovely side effect of stateless web interfaces.

 

59 minutes ago, luisma said:

Yeah I don't know, I wanted to use your optimized NAA without needing to install HQP OS or minimal Ubuntu for the NAA. 

 

I added the default route on the NAA and even disabled the 2nd network adapter on the bios 

 

The thing is there is connectivity I can ping from one to another, do you think that something very specific on the networkaudiod process might create the conflict? I am going to try another image just to see

 

For me things work without issue when everything is connected to my regular home network.

 

ping doesn't really tell much because it works on top of basic peer specific IP addresses. You'd need to test multicast between devices to figure out.

 

[Miska]

It could be also IPv4 side lacking configuration. When IPv6 is enabled, both HQPlayer and NAA operate in dual-stack mode supporting both IPv4 and IPv6 (since IPv6 is backwards compatible with IPv4). If you disable IPv6, then only traditional IPv4 is used. There is no option at the moment to operate in IPv6-only.

 

Both my HQPlayer OS image and NAA image use the IPv4 + IPv6 dual stack mode by default.

 

IPv6 multicast ICMP's are sent by kernel to manage multicast subscriptions across smart switches etc.

 

P.S. Point-to-point wired Ethernet reduces isolation, having a switch there increases the isolation.

[Miska]

4 hours ago, luisma said:

I have powered both computers from isolated LPS, adding a switch "non LPS ready" thought it will add ripple and other EMI to the path 

 

As long as you don't use shielded cables, ethernet is isolated at both ends using transformers. Since the signaling is differential, any common mode noise is canceled in the transformers. If you have a switch in the middle, you double the number of isolation barriers between HQPlayer computer and NAA.

 

NAA is designed for normal home network infra and works well in such environment. I'd say 90% of the problems are from cases where someone is trying to use point-to-point connections - which is not a network anymore.

 

HQPlayer OS image still usually works in such environments too, because it bridges multiple ethernet adapters together. Essentially creating a switch inside the HQPE computer and thus joining NAA to rest of the network. But this is not recommended configuration as it puts unnecessary extra strain on the HQPE computer. It is better to use a good switch instead since switches are specialized hardware and software just for that single purpose and generally do better job at it.

 

[Miska]

4 hours ago, volpone said:

Any idea why these messages ?

 

No idea why you get those messages. Are you using same output format (rate) with Roon Bridge?

 

3.5.4 is a bit old version, I would also recommend to update to latest 3.5.5 build.

[Miska]

1 hour ago, dm68 said:

For quite a while I have been using a SOtM SMS-200 as an NAA with Roon and HQPlayer into an Audiolab MDAC+ and have been able to upsample to DSD 128 or output DSD 64, 128 and 256 files using DirectSDM.

 

I'm not sure what has change but I recently notice everything was being output as PCM even DSD files when Direct SDM is selected. I am unable to select SDM output from the drop menu in the main GUI window. 

 

Any help in determining what has caused this is greatly appreciated.

 

I see two possibilities. Either kernel update to sMS-200 has removed native DSD support for your DAC, or you need to have "DoP" selected as "SDM Pack" method.

[Miska]

3 hours ago, volpone said:

 

Hi @Miska, just updated NAA from 3.5.4 to 3.5.5 (USBridge / DietPi 6.21).

Still strange dmesg like delay: estimated  X, actual Y messages playing to NAA at any rate and no such messages with RoonBridge.

Anything else to investigate ?

 

 

I don't know, I have not seen such on my devices yet...

 

Something from the kernel, so probably something hardware related.

 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, bodiebill said:

Solved by copying qwave.dll to Windows\System32 and \Windows\SystemWOW64 folders.

 

That still doesn't make it work correctly.

 

Your system is missing QoS component, you can install and enable that properly too. On desktop Windows versions, it is installed and enabled by default. On server versions it seems like you need to explicitly install that OS component.

 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, bodiebill said:

Ok, thanks. I was already able to play music with HQP+NAA but will try to also install the Quality of Service future in core mode.

 

Note that it also needs to be enabled for the network interface to operate correctly! (on Win10 it is enabled by default)

 

[Miska]

33 minutes ago, tboooe said:

Interesting...I need to check to see if QOS Packet Scheduler is enabled on my server and NAA.  I've never had issues before though so I wonder if its really necessary?  

 

It just improves reliability and consistency of the stream.

 

[Miska]

14 minutes ago, tboooe said:

I am no expert but isnt that for storage QoS?  I think Miska was referring to network Qos?  If so, I think the command is:

Enable-NetAdapterQos.  @Miska????

 

Yes, that sounds right...

 

I don't have any Windows Server versions, so I don't know about details. But this feature I'm talking about is about network QoS. When correct feature is installed, also qwave.dll should appear, it is the API talking to the QoS stack. Then it still needs to be also enabled for the network adapter.

 

[Miska]

22 hours ago, tboooe said:

So I think in Server enabling qwave feature also enables QoS packet scheduler.  I just checked my network adapter settings and the packet scheduler was enabled for all of my NICs even though I do not remember actually doing it myself.

 

Install-WindowsFeature -name qWave

 

Sounds right. Good that you've found how to pull in that feature into Server! Lot of people have been asking about it, so this should be really helpful.

 

[Miska]

21 hours ago, bodiebill said:

Thanks for correcting me. Indeed it seems that qWave enables QoS for AV streams:

Quality Windows Audio Video Experience (qWave) is a networking platform for audio video (AV) streaming applications on IP home networks. qWave enhances AV streaming performance and reliability by ensuring network quality-of-service (QoS) for AV applications.

Sounds like what Miska was pointing at?

 

Yes, that's it!

 

[Miska]

16 hours ago, bodiebill said:

After applying

Get-NetAdapterQos -Name "*" | Enable-NetAdapterQos

Install-WindowsFeature -name qWave

I still see "Network QoS functionality not available" in NAA. Any idea?

 

IIRC, there's also a Windows service related to that, is it running? You are using networkaudiod version 3.5.6?

 

 

[Miska]

On 2/16/2019 at 8:33 AM, jrd1975 said:

Anyone else run into this issue with the new NAA Version 356 on Mac OS?

 

[/Users/networkaudiod-356/networkaudiod] (681): clSocket::SetOption(): setsockopt(): Can’t assign requested address

 

I can run NAA 354 with no issue?

 

Please check that you have IPv6 functional on your primary interface. Older Mac versions had IPv6 disabled, but now 3.5.5/3.5.6 have IPv4+IPv6 dual stack enabled by default on all platforms.

 

I've tested 3.5.6 on both High Sierra and Mojave without problems.

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, jrd1975 said:

Thanks Miska IPv6 is enabled on my Mac Mini late 2014. But it's disabled on my PlusNet UK router for both WAN/LAN with no option to enable. Happy to use 354 until I get a new router

 

You can disable IPv6 support by setting following environment variable for networkaudiod:

NETWORKAUDIOD_IPV6=0

 

For example you can do "export NETWORKAUDIOD_IPV6=0" before starting "networkaudiod".

 

Other useful configuration variable is NETWORKAUDIOD_NAME that allows you to set a name for the NAA if you don't like the default one.

 

[Miska]

On 3/4/2019 at 5:14 AM, Guf Gufler said:

After months of trouble free use I now have a problem.  I'm not sure if its related the the last couple pages of posts but here's my screen shot of the NAA 

 

By any chance, has this Amanero been flashed with one of the newer firmwares intended for use with Linux?

 

[Miska]

37 minutes ago, westside said:

Hi guys.

What could you advice to me like naa for hqplayer ?

Is it easy to install ?

Easy to use ?

I hope have an answer.

So please answer me.

 

At easiest it is just connecting DAC to it, booting it up and selecting it as output for HQPlayer.

 

But as usual, devil is in the details, so knowing a bit more about the particular use case would help.

 

[Miska]

6 hours ago, Guf Gufler said:

No. nothing changed that I know of. My other system is flawless. I was changing back and forth from the pull down menu in hqplayer and then not able to connect. to the macmini NAA just the rendu. 

 

Possibly the Amanero firmware or driver has got messed up for some reason after multiple load-unload cycles.

 

That sudden "ASIO format selector not supported, assuming PCM" message indicates a problem with the driver.

 

[Miska]

2 hours ago, ABQMD said:

I have Ubuntu Server 18.04.2 successfully running via USB flash drive on my Mac Mini 3,1 (2009) with NAA 3.5.6 bionic running on it. I am running Roon Core on my iMacPro with HQP Desktop 3.25.3. I can see the NAA via IPV6 and IPV4. I have a Topping D50 connected via USB to the Mac Mini but I can't seem to be able to upsample PCM to DSD512. I can get playback at DSD256, but only if I enable SDM pack to DoP. However I thought I wouldn't need/use DoP in a Linix-based NAA. If I don't enable SDM pack in my preferences, I don't get DSD at all on playback as an option. What am I missing? The Topping D50 is listed as being able to play DSD512 native, so I don't know if it is my settings that are limiting DSD512 or the DAC.

 

You could try with my custom kernel from here to see if that enables DSD without DoP and thus also the higher rates.

 

Note that it doesn't boot by default, so in grub boot loader menu, select advanced and from the kernel list select the correct kernel after installing it. If it works as expected, you can make it the default option by modifying /etc/default/grub file and then running update-grub

 

I have following line there:

GRUB_DEFAULT="2>4"

This means option 2 from first menu level and option 4 from the second.

 

[Miska]

5 hours ago, ABQMD said:

Edit: OK, I have booted into your custom kernel and it allows me to choose DSD without the DoP setting enabled. However I get distorted sound via DSD512 (fine in DSD256) if I use the poly-sinc-xtr filter. If I use the poly-sinc-xtr-2s filter, it works great. I would have thought the iMacPro could handle the xtr filter without the 2s addition. What do you think, Miska?

 

Seems like it doesn't have enough power for that case... What kind of CPU does it have?

 

I assume you have "Multicore DSP" set to "auto" (grayed)? You could also try it in "enabled" (checked). These two behave slightly different way and on edge cases it may make a small but critical difference. However it is impossible to determine upfront which one will be better in a particular case.

 

[Miska]

22 hours ago, kravi4ka said:

Irrational but I find this board good looking  

 

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2019/3/18/18271329/nvidia-jetson-nano-price-details-specs-devkit-gdc

 

Will it work as NAA?

 

Possibly that'll work just fine with the already existing Debian packages...

 

If you want just a board, there are couple of x64 based ones that work too:

https://up-board.org/up/specifications/

https://minnowboard.org/minnowboard-turbot/technical-specs (the dual core is enough for NAA)

 

[Miska]

35 minutes ago, Carl Mawer said:

Unfortunately I can not remember which of the HQPlayer NAA  .deb packages to install.

The OrangePi has an Allwinner H3 chip.

 

"armhf" should be the right architecture for that one. So latest version at the moment is this:

https://www.signalyst.eu/bins/naa/linux/stretch/networkaudiod_3.5.6-41_armhf.deb

[Miska]

6 hours ago, Carl Mawer said:

Do you think this is something to do with the permission denied message in the screenshot of terminal above?

 

I don't know, I install plain packages always though "dpkg" and not through apt which deals with package repositories, but I'm not sure how much it makes difference.

 

You could try running "apt install -f ; dpkg --configure --pending" or just "dpkg --purge networkaudiod" and reinstall with "dpkg -i".

 

Logs from NAA and HQPlayer side could tell more what is going wrong.

 

6 hours ago, Carl Mawer said:

Under Backend there is now NetworkAudioAdapter IPV6 as well as NetworkAudioAdapter, Core audio and ASIO

When devices do show up there is OrangePIWaveIO (my DAC) and OrangePI audiocodec.

Could these "new" choices be associated with the Problems?

 

[Miska]

19 minutes ago, Carl Mawer said:

Do you know if  http://www.orangepi.org/orangepipc2/

would work with the naa-356-x64 image that you provide?

 

No, unfortunately it won't... It is ARM architecture while the image is for Intel/AMD.