HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

[ted_b]

So now that I have become more comfortable with the NAA setup (and bought in fully; wouldn't do without it) I have two questions:

1) In my WS2012 AO NAA I have it in GUI mode (for a few reasons, but mostly to be able to navigate early in my NAA experiences). Is it a big sq jump to move to core mode from GUI mode (for the NAA; I already know those answers for Jplay)? Do folks then write a bat file to fire up NAA.exe upon boot up?

2) If "yes" to above, I will need to redo AO. Does AO consider the NAA an audiopc or a stand alone (being that those questions more relate to Jplay dual pc setup than HQP dual pc setup)? I have multiple DACs inhouse at any one time and do not want to risk losing DAC drivers because I chose wrong pc designation (installing kernel streaming for the few outliers, etc).

 

Thanks

[ted_b]

For the Exa E20/E22 I was never able successfully to get NAA running in Core Mode

 

NAA ran beautifully in Minimal Server Mode. I wrote a simple batch file to launch NAA

 

For running HQ Player desktop in Minimal Server Mode, I used Total Commander as the file window interface. I was too lazy to try put the PC into core mode !

 

I configured both PC's as standalone

 

Ok, so same question them Edward. Why minimal mode over GUI? Big sound quality change or just theoretically seemed the right thing to do?

[ted_b]

Just tried minimal server mode for NAA and my new eval-for-review DAC, the Fore Audio DAISy1 (uses Amanero Combi384 drivers) didn't work in ASIO (DSD256) nor in DoP mode for DSD. I gave up and went back to GUI Then found Amanero still not working, so I need to find out a deeper issue). Argh!! Don;t fix what aint broken.

[ted_b]

Very noticeable step up in sound quality, it made listen in GUI mode almost unbearable ;-)

 

Only downside is the time it takes to switch between modes !

 

Weird. Takes me like 60-90 seconds between modes (NAA is Intel somewhat lightweight CAPS Lagoon dn2800mt).

 

Combo384 needed uninstall then re-install, then all was fine. Now gonna try Minimal server mode again, but install will be more difficult without GUI tricks.

[ted_b]

So I moved to minimal server again (but uninstalled Amanero drivers first) then installed the drivers, and still no go. Even tried exaSound. Nothing. NAA sees the drivers, so does HQP, but the DAC doesn't work....it's as if the JCAT PCiE card is not available, yet doesn't work in mobo USB either.

 

Back to GUI until this is understood. Oh well....

[ted_b]

(I hate that I can't edit after time..makes for me having like 4 posts in a row..sorry to hog)

 

Edit from above: seems either Regen was having connection issues or something but without Regen in the picture (and I had to use a .5 meter cable as Regen-to-DAC umbilical cuz nowhere to rest adapter, and the beige umbilical from Uptone is almost worthless....Alex agrees ) minimal server mode ASIO is working fine. It still makes little sense that the connection issues seemed to follow GUI vs minimal mode, but whatever. Works now. Will listen tonight seriously.

 

Question: does anyone know how to restart or cancel networkaudiod.exe, since it is the only command window on minimal server? If I close it I;m screwed and have to do a physical reboot since all I;m left with is a blank screen. In GUI mode it's easy to simply close and open the app.

[ted_b]

I personally would say two computers for remote operation: HQPlayer remotely running on a host, and the NAA as client connected to the DAC.

 

Yes, two not three. I use Windows remote desktop app on my ipad to browse the HQP and/or manage the NAA (if I need to). It is quite minimalist, really, not bloated as one and a half describes. And his simple diagram looks like he has some direct connection between the HQP and NAA. I have my NAA (small pc running networkaudiod.exe and some dac drivers) simply hanging off the same (fiber) switch in my music room. No need for private IP addresses, etc like a Jplay dual setup.

[ted_b]

That is the beauty of the setup. Yes.

 

You can also get a fanless Celeron/Atom motherboard if you wish to run Windows on the NAA. Not quite as cheap as Cubox-i but too bad. I use the DN2800MT if you can still get, also J1900 Celeron. Certain DACs prefer Windows drivers.

 

Has anyone who is running a DN2800MT-based NAA tried going to Win10? A couple folks report a critical path incompatibility with a graphics driver. I run it in WS2012 but had ideas on trying Win10, but have my PCIe slot already taken (JCAT USB card) or I'd install a separate graphics card, even though I could care less about graphics.

[ted_b]

Ted

 

I have been running Win 10 on Caps Lagoon which is DN2800 for few months without any issues and with JCAT USB card. It is my NAA in HQ Player setup. Having some issues with my new NAA build with ASRock Q1900M and JCAT card but that is another issue.

 

Thanks Ashok...I thought so! I wonder what Nick77 is running up against, then.

[ted_b]

Your DAC is the key consideration. Some dacs have no Linux driver (or are not UAC2) so Windows is required.

[ted_b]

I have your setup (HQP and NAA both on WS2012 pcs). Do you make sure you have networkaudiod.exe running (command window) when firing up HQPlayer?

[ted_b]

Yes, networkaudiod.exe is running...

 

In one of the posts I read, it sounded like there was a possibility of asking HQPlayer to look for the specific IP address of the machine running NAA. Is that possible to try?

 

Never had to do that; never had to do multicasting, etc. Just make sure the dac driver shows up in the Naa pulldown on HQPlayer settings window, and make sure the Microsfot runtime DLL is installed. Does HQplayer give a "failed to open audio device" error message?

[ted_b]

Yup...DLL is installed and I get the "failed to open audio device" error.

 

And both the HQP pc and NAA pc are connected to the router or a switch (and not to each other)?

[ted_b]

HQP PC and NAA PC are both connected to the same switch and the switch is then connected to the router. Reason is the HQP PC is connected via fiber. In one post I read, it sounded like there could be a problem if the HQP PC has two NIC's which mine does, but I also tried installing HQP on another PC that only has one NIC and still no luck...

 

Could you disable the copper NIC and try again? Does the NAA setup window in HQP show your NAA's ip address?

[ted_b]

Semente,

I am not so sure these Linux recommendations make sense for you. I would work backward from my DAC. Why? Cuz the NAA box attaches to the dac (NAA is simply a FIFO buffer put in a separate box on the network that isolates your DAC from the noisy workload of the HQPlayer machine, the machine tasked with doing all the heavy lifting). So....f your DAC is not Linux-friendly it won't want NAA on a Linux box (i.e if the DAC is not UAC2 complaint, usually easily seen when the DAC manufacturer includes a MAC driver to be installed..that is a possible give-away that the DAC is not UAC2 complaint and is not therefore Linux friendly). So, although my 'Mac driver" logic is not 100% true all the time, it is a pretty good indication that your Teac DAC is not linux friendly. Therefore, put the NAA software (free from Signalyst) on a small OSX or Windows box, seeing that the Teac has drivers for each.

[ted_b]

Does HQP on OSX like dealing with ALAC? I would assume using an iTunes front end would be an ok place to drag and drop from; I'd be more worried that the file format is HQP friendly.

[ted_b]

No, you have to use AIFF or WAV AFAIK.

 

Yes, that was my point, same with Linux. His Teac will want Win or OSX as an NAA, and want AIFF/Wav as the only iTunes friendly format. So dragging from iTunes would be risky.

[ted_b]

Risky? Limited and a PITA certainly, but it is easily dealt with as long as they know in advance.

 

Somehow we are in a semantics battle here. I meant risky in that the person asking was somewhat a newbie with HQP and most OSX iTunes libraries are not 100% AIFF. Drag an AAC or M4A and get an error or worse. So to me "limited and PITA" kinda means the same thing.

[ted_b]

I think we are saying that although there are "dedicated little boxes" (which means NAA software is pre-loaded) you do not need to reduce your choice pool to that small number. Any box running OSX or Windows (or Linux if you upgrade to a Linux friendly DAC) can be a candidate, just make sure it only runs NAA and your DAC driver. For that reason (running few processes) it can be a little thing with low cpu horsepower. But limiting yourself to pre-loaded dedicated machines (that today are not Linux cuz we don't know what dac you'll buy to eventually replace your Teac..if it's a dac like exaSound you don't want Linux, for example) is not needed. If you can load a dac driver (which you will likely be asked to do) then you can load NAA software.

[ted_b]

I think we are saying that although there are "dedicated little boxes" (which means NAA software is pre-loaded) you do not need to reduce your choice pool to that small number. Any box running OSX or Windows (or Linux if you upgrade to a Linux friendly DAC) can be a candidate, just make sure it only runs NAA and your DAC driver. For that reason (running few processes) it can be a little thing with low cpu horsepower. But limiting yourself to pre-loaded dedicated machines (that today are not Linux cuz we don't know what dac you'll buy to eventually replace your Teac..if it's a dac like exaSound you don't want Linux, for example) is not needed. If you can load a dac driver (which you will likely be asked to do) then you can load NAA software.

 

Oh, and another reason why I, personally, am not a huge NUC fan is that I have found great sound with my inexpensive CAPS V3 Carbon as NAA, a small form factor pc that has enough flexibility/room for me to install my JCAT USB card, and not be slave to a cheap mobo USB. That card is no small part (pun intended) of the reason for my NAA sonic superiority. One can argue that the JCAT prowess is simply isolating me from all my own CAPS Carbon-induced noise, but I'm not convinced that a $400 NUC would sound as good.

[ted_b]

My reasoning could be wrong but I got the impression that the "dedicated little boxes" running Linux would perform better because it could be optimised for purpose both hardware and software wise.

If this is correct and the best setup for an hqplayer based computer transport system then I would like to take that route. R

 

Sure, but it won't talk to your DAC. So, then you need to upgrade/replace your DAC with one that talks to Linux boxes. Seems to me to be the cart before the horse, but that's just me. I would choose a DAC based solely on sonics, but if you are saying that NAA MUST be in your signal path, and that a Linux NAA is higher on the list than a DAC selection, then go for it. There are plenty of DACs that are UAC2 compatible.

[ted_b]

Sure. The ASRock Q1900M is a micro-atx board that allows for dedicated USB as well as a fiberoptic (SFP) NIC. Very reasonably priced. You can get a reclocked one from PPA that will still fit your budget. picoPSU and 12V LPS and good to go.

 

I'm confused. He wants a pre-configured box that can be an NAA and has $300. The Q1900M is a part, a motherboard (analogous to the one in my CAPS Carbon, but better and newer). Add in my JCAT card (which you referenced in using my quote), a fiber NIC, a linear power supply, a picopsu, a pc case, an operating system (ok, cheap or free if Linux), an SSD and you have what $? How is this his solution for "find me a dedicated little box for $300"? I may have missed the point.

[ted_b]

Thank you for you comments.

 

I had settled on replacing the D/AC for sonic reasons long before I learnt about the possibility of adding an NAA to my file playback system.

This would replace the MBP that's usually lying on the living floor in front of the stereo rack with a small box than fits next to the D/AC.

My (iTunes) music libraries are currently stored in an Ethernet NAS that's connected directly to the MBP.

 

By replacing the MBP with a little box I would free the laptop for other uses and could use an iMac that I have close by to control the little box.

I wish to use HQPlayer to process/play my files and would rather not use remote desktop for that.

NAA seemed like a good idea.

 

I have tried a R-Pi with Volumio but it only worked with Wi-Fi and could not read the contents on my backup USB HDD which was formatted by MacOS.

Besides I didn't like browsing with the Android App.

 

Would a dedicated NAA perform better than a MacMini?

 

Cheers,

Ricardo

 

OK, so now I am confused even more (I confuse easily). If you jettison the MBP what are you using for your HQPlayer machine? The NAA is, of course, an additional box, not the one the HQPlayer needs for upsampling/playback, etc. The HQPlayer machine should be a heft cpu, not a weakling.

[ted_b]

The iMac I use for work is standing on a desk next close to the stereo rack.

I would probably use it for playing files, via Ethernet router.

 

How well does it do HQP work? How does it sound? I would address these issues before moving on to NAA. If your new DAC is DSD256 capable you might find it has a gorgeous sweetspot at 256, and want to upsample everything to that rate. That, however, may require investment in a hefty HQP engine rather than worrying currently about NAA. My $.02. Everything matters.

[ted_b]

I will just load the NAA on my current CAPS and give it a whirl

 

Appreciate the response. This approach will also do away with the need for Roon Speakers for my main system.

 

Howie, Hi. I run NAA on WS2012 R1 in GUI mode, with full AO (Caps Carbon, i.e Atom, sized). No issues. However, trying to run Roon on my "client" HQP machine, the CAP Zuma-ish sized i7, it won't let me. Says Open GL 3.0 is not available (and not sure if it's the WS2012 or the RDC I run since it's headless). And my Ipad 3s are not compatible either, even to try running them purely as remotes!! Argh!