"Best" hardware for wireless streaming from MacBook to analog preamp

[Eric F]

Greetings,

 

I'm catching up on the current terminology, so please forgive my question if I've missed this answer in earlier posts.

 

My 15-year old audio system is a Krell KPS25sc CD/Preamp unit, connected to a Krell 700c amp and Wilson WATT Puppy speakers.

 

I almost never play CDs anymore, but wirelessly send Spotify, lossless CD WAV files, and HDTracks hi-res Flac files to an airport express, which sends the signal via optical wire into the KPS optical input for its DAC to process and send forth to the amp.

 

For music software, I use Fidelia to play locally stored files and Airfoil to get all audio wirelessly broadcast.

 

Potential bottlenecks:

 

- Krell DAC is 15 years old. Are new ones noticeably better sounding?

- Apple WiFi and airport express compromising music quality?

 

I know there's some WiFi receivers/DACs by Linn that seem substantial...and Audioengine's proprietary network "sender and receiver". I'm sure many other hardware solutions too.

 

If I'm committed to wireless streaming from my MacBook and keeping at least the Krell analog stages, what do you think would be a top-end solution for this...and maybe a couple of cheaper options under it?

 

Super thanks,

Eric

[realhifi]

Greetings,

 

I'm catching up on the current terminology, so please forgive my question if I've missed this answer in earlier posts.

 

My 15-year old audio system is a Krell KPS25sc CD/Preamp unit, connected to a Krell 700c amp and Wilson WATT Puppy speakers.

 

I almost never play CDs anymore, but wirelessly send Spotify, lossless CD WAV files, and HDTracks hi-res Flac files to an airport express, which sends the signal via optical wire into the KPS optical input for its DAC to process and send forth to the amp.

 

For music software, I use Fidelia to play locally stored files and Airfoil to get all audio wirelessly broadcast.

 

Potential bottlenecks:

 

- Krell DAC is 15 years old. Are new ones noticeably better sounding?

- Apple WiFi and airport express compromising music quality?

 

I know there's some WiFi receivers/DACs by Linn that seem substantial...and Audioengine's proprietary network "sender and receiver". I'm sure many other hardware solutions too.

 

If I'm committed to wireless streaming from my MacBook and keeping at least the Krell analog stages, what do you think would be a top-end solution for this...and maybe a couple of cheaper options under it?

 

Super thanks,

Eric

 

Your own comment about Linn pretty much is heading in the right direction. They have a few options that would suit your system ideally. The lowest cost one is the Sneaky DS which I believe is in the $2,000 range going all the way up to their flagship model the Klimax DS. There is a new preamp / Dac from Classe which has gotten very good feedback so far at around $5,000.

 

The next price level down brings you to the Marantz Streamer / Dac, the NA7004 at $800, which is a very good sounding unit for the money and has digital inputs should you ever need. Denon and Pioneer also have units that fit your discription and I believe that all the above mentioned have Apple's AirPlay built in so they would seamlessly slip into your system. These are streamer / Dacs only and would require a keeping your preamp which can be either good or bad depending on your outlook.

 

I personally think the Linn DSM units are one of the very best digital solutions available in todays highly competetive market but there are probably others out there also, I am just not up on all of them. The DSM units would replace your Krell unit entirely leaving your Krell amps to do their thing.

 

With your system I would highly recommend a Linn Akurate DSM to replace your Krell preamp / Dac with the next best being the Linn Majik DSM (disabling the power amp section and using the streamer / Dac / preamp) into your Krell amps. You should notice a HUGE leap forward in performance with either of these options.

[Audio_ELF]

There is a new preamp / Dac from Classe which has gotten very good feedback so far at around $5,000.

Assuming you mean the Classé CP800 though it has a Ethernet port, I believe this currently does nothing...

 

Eloise

[realhifi]

Assuming you mean the Classé CP800 though it has a Ethernet port, I believe this currently does nothing...

 

Eloise

 

Not sure what has happened on that front, it was touted pretty heavily when I last saw it shown at a trade show. They should get that up and running. I'm fairly certain that ARC's new Dac will have that facility (unfortunately it will cost a ton more) as they have seen the writing on the wall and don't want to lose step in the streaming arena.

[Audio_ELF]

Not sure what has happened on that front, it was touted pretty heavily when I last saw it shown at a trade show. They should get that up and running. I'm fairly certain that ARC's new Dac will have that facility (unfortunately it will cost a ton more) as they have seen the writing on the wall and don't want to lose step in the streaming arena.

The ARC will be interesting to see; I believe it uses the same streaming solution as Musical Fidelity M1 CliC and Project's StreamBox.

 

Eloise

[realhifi]

The ARC will be interesting to see;

 

Eloise

 

and hear!

[Audio_ELF]

and hear!

Yes of course - though the best sounding hardware is nothing if the control and firmware/software isn't up to scratch...

 

Eloise

[Eric F]

David and Eloise,

 

Thanks so much for your feedback.

 

Say I go with a Linn Akurate DSM. It's not clear to me from their literature...is this also a WiFi receiver that replaces the airport express (AE)? I'd want to replace the AE since I understand it limits the bitrate of any files higher-res than 16/44. If the Linn does act as the WiFi receiver and DAC, and then goes balanced-out into my amp, I'd just keep the Krell KPS25 as a CD transport or sell it if I was sure the Linn had a better DAC.

 

If the Linn needs a wired digital input from a NAS, then do you know the relative quality of the AudioEngine D2 wireless sender and receiver? It could act as a wireless bridge to any DAC that needs a wired optical input. The D2 seems to replace the Mac's WiFi system and AE with a proprietary network that includes:

 

- a USB-connected sender box next to your laptop

- a receiver box that can optically output to your DAC wired to the stereo system.

- the capacity to handle 24/96 or better bitrates

 

Then finally, there's the choice of player software. Linn has the Songcast program that seems to replace the Fidelia/Audirvana/etc file players, and seems to host MOG et al. on the Linn unit. Not 100% clear in the brochureware...

 

What would you see as the best complete setup given a <=$5000 budget?

 

Best,

Eric

[Audio_ELF]

Hopefully I can answer some of your questions without creating any more confusion...

Say I go with a Linn Akurate DSM. It's not clear to me from their literature...is this also a WiFi receiver that replaces the airport express (AE)? I'd want to replace the AE since I understand it limits the bitrate of any files higher-res than 16/44. If the Linn does act as the WiFi receiver and DAC, and then goes balanced-out into my amp, I'd just keep the Krell KPS25 as a CD transport or sell it if I was sure the Linn had a better DAC.

The Linn Akurate DSM is a UPnP Streamer with built in pre-amp. It requires a wired ethernet connection (Linn have chosen not to implement WiFi directly).

 

The limits on bitrates of files played through the AirPort Express (AE) is when using it for AirPlay. You can set the AE into WDS or "Extend Network" mode (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1453097?start=0&tstart=0 may help you) and then connect the ethernet port of the Linn to the ethernet port of the AE and that should allow your Linn DSM to see the wireless network. In addition you will (ideally) need a UPnP server to allow the Linn DSM to access the files - some good options here are VortexBox server (a dedicated Linux device) or Asset UPnP server (running on Windows) or a NAS from Synology or QNAP. Another option is Songbox which I know very little about but Linn says runs on Mac (or Windows) and interfaces with iTunes. Ideally the server will be connected via wired connection to the Linn DSM.

Wireless router --| wireless |--> Airport Express --wired--> NAS/Server
                                                \--wired--> Linn DSM

 

At the end of the day though you shouldn't need to set up any of the above on your own; if you are buying new from a Linn dealer they should be able to help you with that.

 

If the Linn needs a wired digital input from a NAS, then do you know the relative quality of the AudioEngine D2 wireless sender and receiver? It could act as a wireless bridge to any DAC that needs a wired optical input. The D2 seems to replace the Mac's WiFi system and AE with a proprietary network that includes:

 

- a USB-connected sender box next to your laptop

- a receiver box that can optically output to your DAC wired to the stereo system.

- the capacity to handle 24/96 or better bitrates

The AudioEngine D2 uses a complete different method of sending files. The Linn DSM is more a replacement for your Mac, where as the D2 is like removing a USB cable connecting Mac to a DAC (not sure if that clarified anything or now). Chris reviewed the D2 here -- Computer Audiophile - Audioengine D2 24-bit Wireless Computer Interface Review

 

Then finally, there's the choice of player software. Linn has the Songcast program that seems to replace the Fidelia/Audirvana/etc file players, and seems to host MOG et al. on the Linn unit. Not 100% clear in the brochureware...

If you are using the Linn to it's full potential you would control it using a UPnP Control Point such as Linn's own Kinsky software available for iPhone/iPod Touch; iPad or Windows computer.

 

The Linn Songcast system allows you to transmit your music direct from your computer in the same way as you would do with AirPlay to your current AirPort express.

 

Eloise

[Celadus]

For 24 bit-perfect wi-fi streaming, any point of the chain could downsample data: wi-fi hardware, server software, device or player used.

Naim has a lot of wi-fi streamers 24/192 at any price points, I prefer them over Linn (only wired), and they could be upgraded with external PSUs.

 

The cheaper way is to use iPad + Camera Connection Kit + USB DAC (or USB/spdif converter) + server software + dedicated app, but watch out, most server settings and app players downsample to 16/44 all or some format file types.

Above config is for portability too, look here: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/24-bit-perfect-streaming-ipad-high-storage-capacity-portability-which-configuration-works-13252/

[Audio_ELF]

For 24 bit-perfect wi-fi streaming, any point of the chain could downsample data: wi-fi hardware, server software, device or player used.

If I am reading what you are saying right, then you are only partially right. The WiFi hardware cannot affect/downsample the data. It could cause the data to stutter and the signal break up, but it will never turn a 24/192 signal into 16/44.1. The server software or the device/player can down sample the data.

 

Naim has a lot of wi-fi streamers 24/192 at any price points, I prefer them over Linn (only wired), and they could be upgraded with external PSUs.

Naim's streamers do, as you correctly said, support WiFi, however Naim themselves recommend against using WiFi because of it's inherent limitations especially unreliability when used with multiple devices. Certainly I would recommend listening to the Naim streamers as well as the Linn, a lot will come down to your preference of the n-Stream app over Kinsky (if using an iOS device for control). The Linn is nice as you can buy the DSM models which have a built in pre-amp. The Linn devices also have their SongCast application which allows you to bypass all the UPnP setup and just stream straight from your computer.

 

Eloise

[realhifi]

If I am reading what you are saying right, then you are only partially right. The WiFi hardware cannot affect/downsample the data. It could cause the data to stutter and the signal break up, but it will never turn a 24/192 signal into 16/44.1. The server software or the device/player can down sample the data.

 

 

Naim's streamers do, as you correctly said, support WiFi, however Naim themselves recommend against using WiFi because of it's inherent limitations especially unreliability when used with multiple devices. Certainly I would recommend listening to the Naim streamers as well as the Linn, a lot will come down to your preference of the n-Stream app over Kinsky (if using an iOS device for control). The Linn is nice as you can buy the DSM models which have a built in pre-amp. The Linn devices also have their SongCast application which allows you to bypass all the UPnP setup and just stream straight from your computer.

 

Eloise

 

Plus the Linn is Apple AirPlay which means easy streaming of any of the streaming services (ie. MOG, Spotify, etc.) through an iOS device not mention easily using any iTunes library with the simple Remote app from Apple.

 

It doesn't hurt that they happen to sound superb!

 

PS. Naim also now have a streamer / preamp combo unit.

PPS. + 1 for the Kinsky app.