Next (basic) steps to improve sound quality from PC

[huskiee]

Hi all

 

I have an media PC which I use for all movies and music.

 

I set up my system a couple of years ago, not knowing much about how to optimize PC audio.

 

I wanted a surround system so i got an Onkyo txsr 606 which i connect to via SPDIF from integrated sound card on motherboard (asus).

 

The cheaper 5.1 speakers didnt sound great, so I ended up just buying a pair of B&W 685s.

 

I'm now looking at adding to my system, so I'm looking at a B&W center speaker (HTM 61) which is on sale to start making use of multi-channels.

 

The main question I had for the forum, is what would be the best way to improve the quality both of stereo music and multi-channel with my existing set-up.

 

I find the system sounds a little harsh right now for music, and also lacks bass. For music I use the Direct Audio setting on the receiver.

 

I've done some reading on this forum over the last couple of days and did some basic improvements including:

 

Switch from i-tunes / foobar to J river (noticeable improvement in quality from itunes, better interface than foobar)

Upgraded from 360kbps to FLAC source where possible (lot more clarity, but still has a 'clinical' sound)

Played with the speaker positioning (ongoing )

 

Apart from the center speaker I'd be interested in improving the overall sound quality, in particular for music.

 

Questions I had were:

 

- I know my amp is intended for surround. Would an external DAC improve the quality of stereo music with this amp? Does it also improve multi-channel surround?

- Would a dedicated stereo amp give me better quality music than a DAC to the Onkyo?

- Would bi-wiring the bookshelf speakers improve the bass?

- Can the center speak be used for music at all?

 

Any comments or other suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks

 

H

 

 

[bikemig]

You mentioned that the improvement you'd like to get is better audio and particularly the bass. The most bang for the buck usually comes with speakers. You might want to think about the 683s and use your 685s for the surrounds. Or you could add a sub to your system (it sounds like you don't have one in your system) if your biggest complaint is lack of bass. Insofar as the dac is concerned, one relatively inexpensive tweak you could consider would be the musical fidelity v link (around $169). It's a usb to spdif converter so you'd still be relying on your AV receiver's dacs but it should reduce jitter.

 

[existentialhero]

I'm with the previous — if you're not satisfied with the bass response of your system, it's probably because you're just using two small bookshelf speakers. Adding a discrete subwoofer or moving to full-range stereo speakers (like the B&W 683's in the same series) would add a lot of body to the sound you're getting. If you opt for a subwoofer, your receiver should have no problem handling the crossover, sending low frequencies to the sub and higher frequencies to the speakers. Given the equipment you're using, I'd say this is the component most likely have a large effect on the deficiencies in your sound.

 

A center speaker is essential for home theater applications, since it's used for dialogue in film soundtrack mixes. I'm sure it's also used in surround music mixes, but those are pretty rare. My opinion would be that a center really doesn't need to enter the picture until you move to a full surround set; if you take the previous commenter's advice to upgrade to full-range front speakers and move your 685's to the rear, though, you'll be in that position.

 

A discrete DAC could be a good addition to your stereo music-listening setup as well, but it won't solve your bass woes. It may help with the 'harsh' quality you perceive in the music, but it's also possible that this is caused by the amplifier in your receiver rather than your DAC. If you can lay hands on a high-quality analog source (either a DAC or a disc player with a good internal DAC like the Oppo Blu-Ray players), even just to audition, you can test this quickly—if the high-quality analog source makes your system sound better, your DAC is to blame, and if it doesn't, you should look instead at the amplification. A dedicated stereo amplifier might be a worthwhile investment in this case; an entry-level music amp like those from Emotiva would only cost a few hundred dollars.

 

Note, however, than an external DAC of the sort discussed on these forums generally will be for stereo only. If you want to listen to multichannel audio (whether for movie soundtracks or multichannel music), you're going to need different hardware. You could upgrade to a higher-grade home theater processor and feed it from your computer over HDMI, or you could use an audiophile-grade internal sound card's multichannel analog outputs. My personal preference and recommendation is for the former, since computers are really bloody noisy places to put analog audio processing equipment, but many people have done the latter successfully.

 

[Bear]

Unless you receiver has true analog passthrough (i.e. there is a mode that shuts down all processors etc, and lets the receiver act as a true pre-amp - every manufacturer out there had a slightly different terminology for this) anything you do will pretty much be a waste. An external DAC will not do much as the analog signal from the DAC will processed yet again in one shape or another by the receiver without analog passthrough. Using an external amp hooked up to your pre-outs on the receiver will only improve the sound if the amp is indeed better than the internal amps (pretty much any freestanding amp out there) and depends on the quality of the signal reaching he amp. Here is my "two-channel" setup to give you an idea:

Mac Mini-BC DAC1.5-NAD 775-ML Depth i-BC 300s-AZ Adagio with AZ interconnects and speaker cables. The sub is in line and handling all the low bass. All the NAD is doing is acting as a pre-amp in two channel mode.

 

[huskiee]

hey bear

 

the onkyo has a mode called 'pure audio' which shuts off tone management (and the display on the receiver). Is this what you were referring to for analogue pass through?

 

For all posters - thanks for the comments.

 

I had a demonstration of the B&W center speaker today, and also listened to a small sub (B&W 608).

 

The center speaker sounded great for the movie. Sub definitely added some bass for both theater and stereo modes.

 

I'll probably take these two items over the next couple of months, with a view of adding some 603s or 604s in future to complete the set-up as suggested.

 

Adjusting the amp speaker settings have improved my bass issue already. I either had never set it up properly, or moving speakers around so much meant it had to be adjusted.

 

On the output issue - to improve audio out from PC to receiver a DAC probably wouldn't be useful as it would only be dual channel?

 

Would an upgraded soundcard and v link improve quality of both multi and dual channel sound? (wouldnt look at upgrading the receiver just yet).

 

If so can you suggest any cost-effective ones?

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

 

[Bear]

I looked up the manual of your receiver and it says "pure audio" is not available for North American models and only for HDMI input. Be that as it may it also seems just by reading between the lines that is not truly an analog bypass. It says it shuts down the display, which is great, but what you really want is for it to shut down all processors and any other functions not needed to pass the analog signal through save gain, Furthermore, you do not have pre-outs other than the sub. You do,however, have a Zone 2 option so you could use an external amp. Now, do not take this as gospel as it may blow up your speakers, but as I understand it you can hook up the same set of front end speakers to an external amp, as well as the receiver at the same time as long as you are not using the pre-outs for the receiver hookups at the same time. So - for two-channel listening you would go: CD player/computer to DAC to CD in. Then from Zone 2 to amp to speakers. In surround mode you would shut Zone 2 down and have the front end speakers hooked up to the receiver as well - an AB speaker switch would probably be advisable in order to prevent above blowing up possibility. Receivers are by their very nature the most complex component we ever put into our systems. The two that I have found to have true analog passthrough options are Denon (higher end) and NAD.